Another Luna Post...just Feeling Sad.

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

Just spent the past 10 minutes having a breakdown because I just don't know how I feel or what to do anymore.

 

As I'm sure you're all sick of hearing, Luna has had issues with separation anxiety for almost the entire 3 months I've had her, and it only seems to be getting worse. Today she broke out of her crate for the first time, tore off her muzzle, and broke my blinds. She did not pee or poop, which tells me that she was not trying to get out because she had to potty. I started crating her again because of having issues with her and my blinds (I really do not like people being able to see into my apartment, and they help keep it cooler inside since my windows receive direct sun all day). I'm afraid of reinforcing the crate with clips in case she injures herself, I'm afraid of her getting her muzzle caught in her attempt to pull it off, I'm afraid she's going to destroy fixtures in the condo I rent...everything just seems to be getting worse. I received a lot of votes on my other post (also via Facebook) that getting a second grey completely alleviated the SA of dog #1, but right now I am just very hesitant to even foster since I rent. I don't know what the right thing to do is. I'm just very sad/frustrated right now. Feeling like I'm failing her, making myself sick with worry all the time, risking damage to her or the apartment...I just don't know what to do. Not sure what I'm looking for here but just had to vent. I don't want to think about giving her up...I just love her so much.

 

ETA: She's been on the max dose of Clomicalm/Clomipramine for several weeks (but has been medicated since June). I'm considering asking the vet about changing medications since things have only gotten worse (she seemed like she was "better" for about 2 days last week then got worse than before).

Edited August 15, 2013 by LunaTheGreyt

[FiveRoooooers]

Sorry if I missed this piece of info, but, if Luna is muzzled does she *have* to be crated? Many greys just don't like the crate once they are home. If you want to keep her in/out of certain rooms, baby gates are terrific.

 

Are you leaving the radio or TV on for her? I have Janet Marlowe's "Zen Dog" calming CD playing continuously when I am away.

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

Sorry if I missed this piece of info, but, if Luna is muzzled does she *have* to be crated? Many greys just don't like the crate once they are home. If you want to keep her in/out of certain rooms, baby gates are terrific.

 

Are you leaving the radio or TV on for her? I have Janet Marlowe's "Zen Dog" calming CD playing continuously when I am away.

 

Well she is still able to break my blinds even when muzzled which is why I put her back in the crate...and now she apparently knows how to get out of the crate and take the muzzle off herself. So I'm not sure what to do there.

 

I do leave music on for her - have tried Through A Dog's Ear, talk radio, TV, all genres of music.

[antisense]

Sounds like she might be wanting to see out the window. Perhaps to try to look for you?

Is it possible to get a different kind of window covering, or use furniture/cardboard/etc to block off access to the window while you're away?

Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions to help with the SA, but I hope that you will find something to help Luna resolve her anxieties.

[silverfish]

I feel for you. My son rents and is on a fairly low wage and I know how he worries about the house and things getting broken.

 

I haven't read all the posts/replies about Luna, so forgive me if I'm raking up over old ground. Have you put time and effort into 'alone training' for her? Have you tried pheromone therapy?

 

Here are some more thoughts. You have her on Clomicalm already, and I'm told it takes about a month to begin working, so don't give up on that without going back and talking to your vet.

 

I wouldn't crate her, if she hates it. Try baby gates to confine her where you need her to be. Some greyhounds panic in a large space, and need it reduced to a manageable size, but most panic if closed off in a single room where they can't see out.

 

It's understandable that you don't want people being able to see inside the apartment (I'd hate it too), but is there any way you can have her stay in a room or two where the blinds don't need to be closed? Some dogs do a whole lot better if they can see out, but you have to balance that against prey-drive. If you have roller blinds, can you leave a foot or so up at the bottom where she can peek through?

 

Do leave radio or TV on for her. Greyhounds are not used to a total lack of noise in their lives, especially when there are no other dogs in the house.

 

Leave her something to keep her occupied. This will not work if you haven't already done the alone training, but it can be great for dogs who are still a bit anxious.

 

Exercise her well before you go. Again, this won't work on its own, the training needs to be in place first, but it does help a lot for most.

[FiveRoooooers]

I like the ideas posted above about letting Luna have access to looking out the window. You can try putting window film over them, which would allow her to see out but peeps can't see in. You can get it at an auto supply place or similar, you just cut it to fit and apply with water. It peels right off when you are ready to remove it.

 

Someone with more experience than I can tell you how to attach the muzzle to a breakaway collar with a strap.

 

Have you tried giving her a frozen stuffed Kong when you leave?

 

She really *wants* to be good!

Edited August 16, 2013 by FiveRoooooers

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

I feel for you. My son rents and is on a fairly low wage and I know how he worries about the house and things getting broken.

 

I haven't read all the posts/replies about Luna, so forgive me if I'm raking up over old ground. Have you put time and effort into 'alone training' for her? Have you tried pheromone therapy?

 

Here are some more thoughts. You have her on Clomicalm already, and I'm told it takes about a month to begin working, so don't give up on that without going back and talking to your vet.

 

I wouldn't crate her, if she hates it. Try baby gates to confine her where you need her to be. Some greyhounds panic in a large space, and need it reduced to a manageable size, but most panic if closed off in a single room where they can't see out.

 

It's understandable that you don't want people being able to see inside the apartment (I'd hate it too), but is there any way you can have her stay in a room or two where the blinds don't need to be closed? Some dogs do a whole lot better if they can see out, but you have to balance that against prey-drive. If you have roller blinds, can you leave a foot or so up at the bottom where she can peek through?

 

Do leave radio or TV on for her. Greyhounds are not used to a total lack of noise in their lives, especially when there are no other dogs in the house.

 

Leave her something to keep her occupied. This will not work if you haven't already done the alone training, but it can be great for dogs who are still a bit anxious.

 

Exercise her well before you go. Again, this won't work on its own, the training needs to be in place first, but it does help a lot for most.

 

I apologize for not restating what we've done thus far. I can try pulling the blinds up a bit, although I am afraid that now since she knows how to remove the muzzle, that she'll chew on my molding (happened once before). The molding-chewing incident occurred when I tried baby-gating her in my kitchen (big window on the door to the balcony for her to look out there) - she totally panicked (even peed) being confined to one room, even with a large window. I do leave background noise/music on for her the entire time I'm gone. She will not touch a Kong filled with the stinkiest, yummiest things, or even a treat left out on the floor, when left alone. She gets a 30-40 minute brisk walk/jog before I leave...she hates it; would rather be sleeping (with me home, of course). We do alone training, but it has not been effective thus far (can't get past the 15 minute mark before full-blown anxiety comes out and she doesn't respond to any training). I know it's still "early" on the meds, but I thought I would've seen even a tiny bit of improvement since she's been on them for almost 2 months now. :\

[silverfish]

If you can't get past 15 minutes with the alone training, it could be that you're going too fast for her.

Stick with it. Each time she reacts negatively, go back a step or two and take it slower the next time. Don't be in a hurry to get to the next step, let it happen at its own pace. If twenty minutes is too much for her to cope with, go for 16 minutes, then 17 minutes, and if she freaks, go back to a point where she doesn't freak, but keep going. It took none of my dogs more than two weeks, most got it within one, but there are some who take a lot of very patient, consistent work.

 

If she panics when babygated to one room, try two rooms. It may be that you can leave the blind in the other room down if she has access to the window in the kitchen.

 

There's also a CD available of music chosen for its soothing quality for dogs. I don't have the link, but I know it's been trialled in shelters with good results. Maybe someone else will know what it's called.

 

I don't have any personal experience with Clomicalm so I can't advise you on that, but I would definitely talk to the vet.

 

Good luck!

[Batmom]

Don't put her back in the crate. They can get hurt very badly trying to escape.

 

I would also pull up your blinds, all the way up, and secure the cords so she can't get tangled trying to look out. Window film or cheap temporary sheers would give you some privacy but still let her look out safely.

 

What exactly are you doing in terms of alone training? And what exactly is her response?

 

In case it might give you some food for thought, I will tell you what I start out doing when a new dog seems disturbed by my leaving. I leave, a lot. I get my stuff, tell the dog "you're just going to stay here," walk out the door and leave the premises. Then I come right back. So, gone 1-3 minutes, then back. I don't exactly *ignore* the dog when I come in, but I don't make a big deal of her either. I remain "back" for 1-3 minutes, then leave again. I might spend 30 minutes or an hour doing this, or even an hour and a half if I have that much time all at once. I really want to leave at least 5-6 times in a row. Once the dog is bored with this idea and stops reacting to my leaving/overreacting to my coming back, then maybe I'll stay away for 5-10 minutes. Et cetera. In my experience, the first exercise is the most important. If the dog doesn't get excited/distressed when I leave, then she'll usually remain calm for a good amount of time.

[dante2zoe]

My whippet had separation anxiety and clomicalm did not work. I switched him to generic Prozac. (I think that is the human version of Reconcile.) Different medications work for different dogs. He wouldn't take any treats, either, while I was gone. He destroyed a crate, dug holes in my carpet and cleared the baby gates. His case was short-lived, thankfully. He got full reign of the house and the meds and he was able to settle down. And, we worked on training. Oh, I already had two greyhounds when he arrived on my doorstep. I do feel for you, it is so hard to know that they are stressed.

 

Have you contacted your group?

 

I live in Maryland, on the other side of the river from Leesburg. If I can do something to help you out, please let me know.

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

I have contacted her group. We are going to try her with a foster dog (either at my place or someone else's for a few days) and see what happens. She just does not respond to any distraction/desensitization tactics. I know everyone says to do things until they get "bored" but so far she has not desensitized - I can leave for a few minutes and return for an hour and she's still in a state of anxiety at the end - frankly, doing things over and over like that (no matter how long or short the session) tends to heighten her level of anxiousness. I will not put her back in the crate. Hoping that tomorrow she will keep her muzzle on so I can go to a class (shouldn't be more than 4 hours). I do not want her to injure herself. I'll check out that window film asap.

[Wonder]

If you do switch drugs, try this site for prices. Totally saved me tons of money on drugs

goodrx.com

[Guest RMarie]

I'm sorry you're going through this and I'm sorry I have no advice to offer. I hope you find the strength to stick it out. Luna seems like a sweet girl.

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

If you do switch drugs, try this site for prices. Totally saved me tons of money on drugs

goodrx.com

 

I might be ignorant but how do you get a vet to send an animal Rx to Walgreens/Rite-Aid? I've been using petfooddirect.com so far and it's been around $0.57/pill. Buuut I just looked there and saw that they are currently out of stock...and 1800petmeds has been out of stock for like a month (they're twice as expensive though). Wonder if I should just start weaning her off it now...ugh, going to call the vet.

[Wonder]

 

I might be ignorant but how do you get a vet to send an animal Rx to Walgreens/Rite-Aid? I've been using petfooddirect.com so far and it's been around $0.57/pill. Buuut I just looked there and saw that they are currently out of stock...and 1800petmeds has been out of stock for like a month (they're twice as expensive though). Wonder if I should just start weaning her off it now...ugh, going to call the vet.

My vet just calls it in for me. I tell them where to call, give them the # too.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Wonder

[a_daerr]

 

I might be ignorant but how do you get a vet to send an animal Rx to Walgreens/Rite-Aid? I've been using petfooddirect.com so far and it's been around $0.57/pill. Buuut I just looked there and saw that they are currently out of stock...and 1800petmeds has been out of stock for like a month (they're twice as expensive though). Wonder if I should just start weaning her off it now...ugh, going to call the vet.

 

I found Sam's Club to be the absolute cheapest for prescription veterinary drugs (I've heard the same about Costco as well). I priced around online and at all the local pharmacies, and none were even in the same ballpark as Sam's. Henry's seizure cost about $50 for a 3-month supply. As I remember, they would've been something ridiculous, like $300+ at Rite-Aid. The vet just calls the script into the pharmacy, just like for a person.

[carronstar]

I know it seems impossible, but please do try to stick it out with Luna. You have gotten some great advice here and there really is an end in sight.

 

My Morgaine was also a Molotov/HBs Commander girl who looked just like Luna and her SA was just horrible. I had no clue how to deal but was given a great deal of wonderful advice from some amazing greyhound people. It took time but she did calm down.

 

Alone training -- every day, 3 or 4 times a day. I could be found sitting in the hallway on the stairs for a few minutes at a time. She got used to my going in and out.

DAP Diffuser (pheremone therapy) -- we called it Plug in Mommy, it worked great

Rescue Remedy -- in her water and a few drops under her tongue

 

Finally, what worked best was realizing that her melt-down point was at the 4 hour mark. That is when I got a dog walker. A good dog walker (the first one was a useless excuse for a human) who walked her, tired her out, and then didn't leave the house until she was settled on the couch with her cookie. She did all of this in the 30 minute walk time!

 

The last thing that really helped was to take therapy dog training together. It could easily have been obedience class, just having the time together to work on skills for her.

 

This was a dog who ate through my plaster walls, who ate through part of the kitchen counter, a wooden credenza unit, part of a bookshelf, a case clock hung 5' up the wall, the wall around my door, etc. She wasn't bad or destructive, she just wanted to get OUT and get to me. Once it all fell in to place, she calmed down. It can happen. It just takes a whole lot of patience and work.

Edited August 15, 2013 by carronstar

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

Dog walking rates are nuts in my area (would cost between $300-400/mo for a daily 15-minute walk)...if I have to, I will take her to my pet sitter during the day and spend about $200/mo. I have tried the DAP and R.R. with no results. I can't afford for more damage to occur, since I rent and would have to pay a lot to have things replaced...so at this point it's looking like I'll have to go the petsitter route while I'm at work. Still not the total answer though, since I still need to be able to go out for other reasons from time to time.

[winnie]

Dog walking rates are nuts in my area (would cost between $300-400/mo for a daily 15-minute walk)...if I have to, I will take her to my pet sitter during the day and spend about $200/mo. I have tried the DAP and R.R. with no results. I can't afford for more damage to occur, since I rent and would have to pay a lot to have things replaced...so at this point it's looking like I'll have to go the petsitter route while I'm at work. Still not the total answer though, since I still need to be able to go out for other reasons from time to time.

 

Dang... you're right about dog walking rates. Just did a quick Google and found this one... rates are just as you said.

 

http://www.beckyspetcare.com/service/doggy-walks/

 

Do you have a neighbor that might be able to help for less $$$?

 

I don't have experience with S.A., so I will leave that up to others to give you advice. Just curious if you discussed your work schedule, etc. with your adoption group prior to adopting Luna? When we adopted our first greyhound, we made it clear that we both worked full-time and wouldn't be able to be come home mid-day. We told them that we wanted a very laid-back, confident greyhound that would do well alone. They gave us Celeste. We did crate for about 3-4 months. We'd come home to find her sound asleep - often roaching - in her crate. She was perfect for us and our schedule. We adopted our second greyhound, Darcy, about 7 months later. Darcy might have been the type to have S.A., but has always been fine since we already had Celeste.

 

Good luck!

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

 

Dang... you're right about dog walking rates. Just did a quick Google and found this one... rates are just as you said.

 

http://www.beckyspetcare.com/service/doggy-walks/

 

Do you have a neighbor that might be able to help for less $$$?

 

I don't have experience with S.A., so I will leave that up to others to give you advice. Just curious if you discussed your work schedule, etc. with your adoption group prior to adopting Luna? When we adopted our first greyhound, we made it clear that we both worked full-time and wouldn't be able to be come home mid-day. We told them that we wanted a very laid-back, confident greyhound that would do well alone. They gave us Celeste. We did crate for about 3-4 months. We'd come home to find her sound asleep - often roaching - in her crate. She was perfect for us and our schedule. We adopted our second greyhound, Darcy, about 7 months later. Darcy might have been the type to have S.A., but has always been fine since we already had Celeste.

 

Good luck!

 

I don't know any of my neighbors around here and don't really trust people coming into my apartment that easily :\ I did tell my group my work schedule and they didn't see any reason why Luna wouldn't be fine at the time of adoption. There is a possibility of me fostering for them to see if another dog in the home is the solution. Right now I'm sort of seeing my options as: 1) spend $$ on meds, petsitter, and damage control, or 2) spend $$ on having another dog. Pros and cons to both. Hard decisions abound.

[Brandiandwe]

I just wanted to add another option although it isn't a nice one. It's possible that Luna and you aren't a good fit. It is always heartbreaking for everyone when you need to rehome a grey. They wiggle into our hearts and it becomes hard to let go. However, sometimes, because of no-ones fault the match isn't good. If you are constantly stressed about damage, $$$$$, seeing Luna upset, she will be picking up on it. She might do better in another home. And you might do better with a different grey.

 

I'm definitely not saying that this is necessarily the option you should go with, but I am saying that it might be one to consider. If you decide to keep on working, I wish you all the best. But if you've given it a good shot and it becomes too much, allowing her to find a home where people are around more and who have other dogs is something to consider.

[silverfish]

In case it might give you some food for thought, I will tell you what I start out doing when a new dog seems disturbed by my leaving. I leave, a lot. I get my stuff, tell the dog "you're just going to stay here," walk out the door and leave the premises. Then I come right back. So, gone 1-3 minutes, then back. I don't exactly *ignore* the dog when I come in, but I don't make a big deal of her either. I remain "back" for 1-3 minutes, then leave again. I might spend 30 minutes or an hour doing this, or even an hour and a half if I have that much time all at once. I really want to leave at least 5-6 times in a row. Once the dog is bored with this idea and stops reacting to my leaving/overreacting to my coming back, then maybe I'll stay away for 5-10 minutes. Et cetera. In my experience, the first exercise is the most important. If the dog doesn't get excited/distressed when I leave, then she'll usually remain calm for a good amount of time.

 

This is what I do, too.

 

You may be already following this routine to the letter, but to be honest, it doesn't sound like it, it sounds as if you're doing a kind of modified version which allows her to remain in a state of arousal and confusion without her learning.

 

I know everyone says to do things until they get "bored" but so far she has not desensitized - I can leave for a few minutes and return for an hour and she's still in a state of anxiety at the end - frankly, doing things over and over like that (no matter how long or short the session) tends to heighten her level of anxiousness.

 

 

You say you can leave for a few minutes and be back for an hour and she's still not settled at the end of it. What it sounds as if you're saying is that you leave for a few minutes, just one time, and then you're with her for an hour. Is that correct? If so, you perhaps haven't understood the correct way to do this.

 

You need to make it more boring for her, you need to give her a chance to get bored. She wants to be with you? Well, if she's with you/without you/with you/without you in many, many short repetitions (two or three minutes with, two or three minutes without, two or three minutes with, etc) over a long enough period of time, it's a very rare dog indeed that won't give up the stress and start expecting you back at any minute at some point. And the trick is, that while you're doing this alone training, you should be with the dog for just as much time as you're away from her over the course of half an hour or so, at the beginning - and repeat that session more than once a day over several days. It's hard work, for sure.

 

I know it can happen that a particular dog won't respond, and I know there are always exceptions, and of course we can't actually see what you're doing, but IMHO it would seriously be worth your time to set aside some time each day to do this for her, in exactly the way that Batmom has said.

 

If I've misunderstood and you have indeed been following the regime that Batmom outlined above, then my apologies for not getting that. One of the problems with the internet is that confusion can easily arise!

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

 

This is what I do, too.

 

You may be already following this routine to the letter, but to be honest, it doesn't sound like it, it sounds as if you're doing a kind of modified version which allows her to remain in a state of arousal and confusion without her learning.

 

 

 

You say you can leave for a few minutes and be back for an hour and she's still not settled at the end of it. What it sounds as if you're saying is that you leave for a few minutes, just one time, and then you're with her for an hour. Is that correct? If so, you perhaps haven't understood the correct way to do this.

 

You need to make it more boring for her, you need to give her a chance to get bored. She wants to be with you? Well, if she's with you/without you/with you/without you in many, many short repetitions (two or three minutes with, two or three minutes without, two or three minutes with, etc) over a long enough period of time, it's a very rare dog indeed that won't give up the stress and start expecting you back at any minute at some point. And the trick is, that while you're doing this alone training, you should be with the dog for just as much time as you're away from her over the course of half an hour or so, at the beginning - and repeat that session more than once a day over several days. It's hard work, for sure.

 

I know it can happen that a particular dog won't respond, and I know there are always exceptions, and of course we can't actually see what you're doing, but IMHO it would seriously be worth your time to set aside some time each day to do this for her, in exactly the way that Batmom has said.

 

If I've misunderstood and you have indeed been following the regime that Batmom outlined above, then my apologies for not getting that. One of the problems with the internet is that confusion can easily arise!

 

Oh, no, I leave for a few minutes, return, then repeat. Not just once, many times, for up to an hour. She just gets more and more agitated with each departure.

[Guest Waterdog66]

I personally am hoping the Foster Dog route works

[Brandiandwe]

I personally am hoping the Foster Dog route works

 

 

Me too! Or the alone training works. But I also wanted to say that sometimes dogs are returned because it isn't the right fit for whatever reason and that there's no shame in that.