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I've decided to stick with pred for now, but we are working to reduce the amount of pred quicker and see if her body does okay with the reduction. She also gets her first B 12 shot tomorrow.

 

This thread has really helped me have an informed conversation with a vet who is overworked. I just found out she is the lone internist in a department that until recently had three doctors! She did say they should be bringing an additional doctor soon.

Colleen with Covey (Admirals Cove) and Rally (greyhound puppy)
Missing my beloved boy INU (CJ Whistlindixie) my sweetest princess SALEM (CJ Little Dixie) and my baby girl ZOE (LR's Tara)

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How is the biopsy obtained, by surgery?

There are 2 ways to obtain a biopsy. The first would be via an endoscope--the plus with this is brief anesthesia is used and there is no incision. They get the biopsy's right through the scope. The scope goes down the esophagus, down through the stomach into the gut-the drawback is it can't go too far which might not be far enough to reach the diseased gut. The second way and IMO the only way is to obtain the biopsy's is surgically. It's what is called a true cut or full thickness biopsy. Of course the negative is its an abdominal surgery requiring longer anesthesia and a recovery time--the plus is you will get a truer path result. With scope biopsy's you are only taking small samples from the lining of the gut--quite often the disease is deeper and the scope samples will miss the key cells.

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There are 2 ways to obtain a biopsy. The first would be via an endoscope--the plus with this is brief anesthesia is used and there is no incision. They get the biopsy's right through the scope. The scope goes down the esophagus, down through the stomach into the gut-the drawback is it can't go too far which might not be far enough to reach the diseased gut. The second way and IMO the only way is to obtain the biopsy's is surgically. It's what is called a true cut or full thickness biopsy. Of course the negative is its an abdominal surgery requiring longer anesthesia and a recovery time--the plus is you will get a truer path result. With scope biopsy's you are only taking small samples from the lining of the gut--quite often the disease is deeper and the scope samples will miss the key cells.

Sound like you have had more than your share of experience, or are you in the medical field? I thank you again for your help!

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No advice, but I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, because the Hope Center has tentatively diagnosed Lucy with IBD. They've had us give her B-12 shots for the last six weeks - one more shot after a month and then we'll check her bloodwork again a month after that. If she's still not absorbing it at all, we'll be facing more tests, including a biopsy. If she's absorbed some but not enough, they've recommended a dietary consult with Virginia Tech for specially formulated home cooked food.

 

Edited to add -Lucy is not on Pred, but they did suggest Prilosec at night. She was completely refusing breakfast, and the Prilosec seems to help.

 

Lots of good thoughts for you - I know how stressful it is.

Edited by vjgrey

Valerie w/ Cash (CashforClunkers) & Lucy (Racing School Dropout)
Missing our gorgeous Miss
Diamond (Shorty's Diamond), sweet boy Gabe (Zared) and Holly (ByGollyItsHolly), who never made it home.

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Quick update, those B 12 shots are a-mazing! She had her shot on Saturday and a few of those random issues we couldn't put our finger on disappeared overnight. Namely, she was dropping poop at random places. We have the goal of having her off the pred by next week. I am fine with the decision to use it because it seems like the only way we could get her IBD under control. As I expected, her muscle loss has been considerable. This girl always had some serious booty (my little stakes racer) and she's got nothing now. I'm getting ready to start her on exercises to build the muscle back the minute we drop the pred. Let's just hope we can keep her IBD under control without going back to it.

Colleen with Covey (Admirals Cove) and Rally (greyhound puppy)
Missing my beloved boy INU (CJ Whistlindixie) my sweetest princess SALEM (CJ Little Dixie) and my baby girl ZOE (LR's Tara)

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Glad she's feeling better :)

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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Glad it's helping Colleen! I'll make sure I get those exercises to you by next week.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Jen I can't remember what other thread we were talking about exercises in, but I want them too! :)

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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My first grey, Rowdy, had IBD. The GI vet gave him Tylan power (you can buy it w/o prescription) and Metamucil. It would take a few weeks to get better. But it works. Never had any problems. He died with spleen cancer, not IBD.

Good luck!

 

:bighug to your pup.

Soon, Cassy & Twitter

Angel Hounds: Rowdy, Easy & Harry

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  • 2 weeks later...

One more update. We took her off pred completely on Friday. She remains on metronidazole and prescription food along with the heavy duty probiotic. So far things are going well!

 

I still hate the side effects of prednisone but am so glad we went ahead and did it for those few weeks to get her past the flare up of the disease. I don't know if it is my imagination or not, but within 24 hours of being off that drug I swear her muscles seemed to start bulking up.

 

Thanks again for your suggestions! It really helped me talk to the vet with confidence and be an advocate for Salem.

Colleen with Covey (Admirals Cove) and Rally (greyhound puppy)
Missing my beloved boy INU (CJ Whistlindixie) my sweetest princess SALEM (CJ Little Dixie) and my baby girl ZOE (LR's Tara)

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I might suggest that instead of doing chicken that you use beef and make sure it is cooked. Chicken today is filled with anitbiotics and there have recently been papers cropping up that are suggesting that the massive use of antibiotics in chicken is the cause of IBD and IBS in humans.

 

Good luck in getting this under control.

:nod Although beef also has antibiotics, MaryJane is correct that most chicken is filled with them.

Cynthia, & Cristiano, galgo
Always in my heart: Frostman
Newdawn Frost, Keno Jet Action & Chloe (NGA racing name unknown), Irys (galgo), Hannah (weim), Cruz (galgo), & Carly CW Your Charming

Princess http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?i=1018857

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life, gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are." -- Unknown

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  • 2 weeks later...

One more update. We took her off pred completely on Friday. She remains on metronidazole and prescription food along with the heavy duty probiotic. So far things are going well!

 

I still hate the side effects of prednisone but am so glad we went ahead and did it for those few weeks to get her past the flare up of the disease. I don't know if it is my imagination or not, but within 24 hours of being off that drug I swear her muscles seemed to start bulking up.

 

Thanks again for your suggestions! It really helped me talk to the vet with confidence and be an advocate for Salem.

Nope, not your imagination! We had much better results with budesonide (and metronidazole and tylosin). I concur with tbhounds; she's the one who told us about budesonide in 2009. When Spencer had an ultrasound back in March, looking for liver issues, his intestines were entirely back to normal! (He had finished with the budesonide in early 2012.) But the pred must be out of their systems for at least two weeks, IIRC, before budesonide can be used. I mention this only because if it's IBD, there will be flares, and you'll have occasion to revisit and reconsider the meds question. Btw, B-12 is magical; L-glutamine supplementation is also reparative of the GI tract and was recommended by the internist.

 

Sorry I didn't see this until now. Hope Salem continues to improve. :-)

Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13).

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Jen I can't remember what other thread we were talking about exercises in, but I want them too! :)

I have yet to find the sheets so I can copy them, but when I do I will share them, sorry! I remember some but not all of them, but the details on duration and number of reps are fuzzy so I'm hesitant to try to just write up descriptions for "general consumption". :P But it looks like we're going to need them for Violet a well. She's always been one of those girls with the nice muscular thighs but the rhabdo affected that. :(

 

Colleen, have you talked to the vet about budesonide? Curious since I've read in other threads as well that it generally doesn't have the negative side effects.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Thank you! I need to get in the phone and push this.

 

We're down to only 10 mg of pred a week. But I like what ya'll are telling me. It's time to make this conversation happen.

Colleen with Covey (Admirals Cove) and Rally (greyhound puppy)
Missing my beloved boy INU (CJ Whistlindixie) my sweetest princess SALEM (CJ Little Dixie) and my baby girl ZOE (LR's Tara)

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