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Reactivity- Only On Leash, Only During Introductions


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I see what you're saying. FWIW, one thing I do with a dog who wants to be out front is praise (or click) and treat for right next to or right at the back of my thigh -- that is a "Keep close" command if the dog already knows "Heel" as something different. I also keep the leash way short when teaching not to pull so the dog can't get very far :lol -- just barely slack when the dog is next to me, and not slack when the dog is somewhere else. Early days, we might not move much ..... :)

 

When you can get past the reactivity stuff, it is important to work with him where there's lots of temptation to misbehave (pull, etc.) -- exciting times tend to make a dog forget his/her training. You probably already knew that but deserved a mention for anyone else reading.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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I'm not sure I agree with your thoughts on the dog park. Dogs are off lead there and he plays appropriately with other dogs, right? In other words, the issues are only when he's on lead? He may never get to the point where he's completely comfortable with on leash greetings, or at least not with all dogs, but if you don't do the dog park, you may be hurting yourself as you're preventing postive interactions wtih dogs. My concern would be that the leash reactivity will increase if he doesn't continue to have opportunities for positive interaction with a variety of other dogs. I honestly think that's some of what I saw with Zuri (some of it was also him outgrowing adolescence, and some was probably in part due to some bad interactions with had with an ex's aggressive dog).

 

The one thing I'm conflicted about is continuing the training session AFTER he's crossed his threshold. I've read some material that says once the meltdown occurs, it's best to stop the training. When their fight or flight response happens, and the adrenaline chemicals enter their body, no more learning can occur. Then other trainers say that removing them from the situation inadvertently rewards them by giving them what they want. Like today in class, after his meltdown, he started losing focus rapidly. I wonder if I should've just stopped then and there?

Hopefully I'll get everything figured out, and he can start improving. Poor guy. I feel like such a failure. :(

I don't think you need to stop training, I think you need to just get him far enough removed from the situation that he can calm down and learning can occur again. You also need to be aware that once he's crossed threshold he'll be more likely to be triggered into doing so again by stimuli that otherwise might not normally push him over. If there literally isn't enough room in your training place to do that, then you might have to leave. Or go outside and walk for a bit to calm down, then try again. And no, that is not rewarding his behavior. Remember, he's so overstimulated that learning isn't occurring. It can't be both ways. ;)

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Guest Waterdog66

I was thinking about this thread last night. (We went on the monthly walk with a local Greyhound Walking Club)

 

When we got there, Audrey was fine until the group swelled beyond 2 or 3 hounds. At first she started snarking at anyone who came up to greet her (Even when they were polite) I tried to keep her on the edge or even outside of the group as we stood there but it seemed like she alternated between wanting to greet and being bugged that other dogs were even looking at her.

 

I was ready to leave and just remove her from the situation entirely but then the walk started and suddenly all was good. Even with 20+ hounds walking in very tight quarters she was happy and charged ahead several times to hang out with different parts of the group.

 

This is consistent with past experiences and I am now more sure than ever that the best way to introduce her to another dog is while we are both walking on leash in the same direction rather than standing around.

 

I DID NOTHING to discourage the snarky behavior because I believe she is just communicating. BUT I was very prepared to call it a day if she was not able to settle in and be comfortable. In the end, once things were going well; she got plenty of atta-girls and scratches for her nice manners and easy going nature on the walk.

Edited by Waterdog66
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...the best way to introduce her to another dog is while we are both walking on leash in the same direction rather than standing around.

 

 

Yep, this is the Turid Rugaas concept of "parallel walking." I plan to try this, but his leash manners are not so great right now.

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A few new updates on Truman.

 

Now that we are leash-walking everyday, I think that has taken some of the fear/anxiety out of being on leash. I will admit, the first two times were a disaster. Pulling, zig-zagging, frustration and reactivity to other dogs, prey-drive with squirrels and bunnies... But we pressed on, and I continued turning in the opposite direction for 10 paces when he started pulling. When he hit the end of the leash and trotted back to catch up with me, I rewarded him for being in the heel position. Now, I'm to the point where if he's pulling, I can just freeze for a few seconds, and he will put himself back into heel. We also did a lot of "look at that" training with people, bicycles, other dogs (from a distance), and anything else that he deemed scary. I started jackpotting him with treats when we encountered other dogs. Sometimes, he would just get too anxious and would not take treats. During those times, I amped up pets and verbal praise, which he really seems to respond to. The other day on our walk, we encountered a Rottweiler running around and barking on the other side of a chain link fence. Truman got amped up, jumping and barking, but he was quickly able to be distracted. We continued past with "hurry, hurry, hurry!" and he recovered much more easily.

 

There were even more big breakthroughs for Truman last night. It was raining, so I decided to take them to PetSmart. I thought it was going to be over before it started, because as soon as we walked in, a dog at the registers started freaking out and barking at us. To my surprise, Truman walked perfectly on leash without pulling, and didn't even acknowledge the other dog. He just looked at me for direction. Also, I took him past the room with the adoptable cats. There were about 6 kittens running and jumping around in there. He was fascinated by them, but still maintained enough focus to "look" away when I asked him to. We did a few other challenges, like getting him up on the scale (which is closed in on three sides) using targeting. Truman got off the scale, then I praised him, and he was so happy, he got back on a second time! Almost like, "Look! If you like that, I can do it again!" We walked down the treat aisle and practiced A LOT of "leave its." He even had one nice introduction with a small dog and several nice introductions with people, so overall, I was absolutely thrilled. The true test will be how he does in class this week, since he's already had a few negative experiences there.

 

My Patricia McConnell book yesterday as well, so I'm going to start reading that ASAP.

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Sounds like you are making great progress with him! :)

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Guest Waterdog66

Awesome. Sounds like things are much better, Keep up the great work with Truman and this will be a lessen we can all learn from :)

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Guest Giselle

You're on the right track, and you're using the right resources.

 

Just to answer an earlier question:

- In my opinion, dogs' rebound times (the time it takes for them to overcome the adrenaline rush and refocus on you) is directly proportional to the amount of practice the dog has received. Getting a dog to rebound like that is an intensive process requiring lots of training in impulse control. The average dog can't just flip back and refocus on you, like an on-off-switch. This type of behavior is highly trained and thoroughly practiced in different exercises. A lot of dog trainers call it "padding". At some point, we know that our pups will do something stupid, bark, lunge, explode, whatever. But the reason we don't worry about it is because we know our dogs are "padded". They've had sufficient practice with impulse control exercises to be able to refocus extremely quickly and overcome that initial adrenaline burst after an aggressive episode. The amount of "padding" that Truman has had will determine how soon after an aggressive episode he can refocus back on you, how fast the treats have to come, how many treats you'll need to use, how far away you'll need to go to restart, etc. The steps to any training program are usually pretty straightforward, but learning to deal with life's imperfections is a bit of an art. I'm sure your trainer will help immensely!

- In my opinion, I gained FAR more insight into training aggressive dogs from Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed than Patricia McConnell's books. McDevitt's approach just worked faster and more effectively for us. This is partially because McDevitt emphasizes impulse control and creating a truly thinking dog. I think, no matter what tools you use, always choose the one that emphasizes impulse control and creating a thinking dog who likes to offer lots of behaviors.

- On that note, I'd also suggest trying to fit in as many impulse control exercises into your daily routine as possible. The more Truman gets to practice inhibiting gut impulses and learning to think through his emotions, the better he will respond on walks. Dr. Yin's "Learn to Earn" program creates a really strong impulse control foundation: http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/the-learn-to-earn-program

- My thoughts on classical counter-conditioning: I think it's really useful in the beginning stages and in emergency situations. But I strongly feel that operant counter-conditioning (rewarding the dog for doing an alternate behavior) creates stronger behaviors in the presence of stressful triggers. I've had much more success in the long-term using Look at That, heeling games, Targeting games, etc. All these things you're learning are just tools. Use the ones that fit your situation best. If you need a more advanced tool, then train it and practice practice practice!

Good luck!

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Giselle, is there anything you can recommend specifically for introductions? Truman's biggest trigger are the dogs (usually large dogs or ones that make eye contact), coming toward him. He doesn't want to be sniffed or approached. We're making great progress getting him comfortable with the leash and replacing the reactive behaviors with "watch me" at close distances. He's doing well with that, but he still does not like to interact. I eventually like him to be able to calmly and appropriately greet other dogs without feeling anxious.

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Guest Giselle

Personally, I would suggest putting "sniffing other dogs" on cue, as if it were any other ol' trained behavior. It takes some load off the dog's shoulders because they see this sniffing as a trained behavior with an explicit start and end time. They learn only to sniff when you say, "Go Sniff!", and they know that there's an end to it (when you recall them and ask for more focused behaviors). It makes it less stressful, more controlled, and it turns into a fun game!

 

For example, with dogs who respond well to automatic Sits, I'll have them doing a bunch of focused, automatic Sits up until about 3 feet from the other dog. Then, I'd give them an explicit release cue, "Go Sniff!" and release them to sniff whatever they want. They don't have to approach the other dog; they could just sniff the ground. (When training this, be sure to toss a few treats on the ground to reinforce the sniffing.) After 3 seconds of sniffing the other dog, immediately recall the dog and ask for another Sit or Watch Me or Targeting game or whatever. See here: http://www.progressdog.com/automatic-sits.html

 

Another thing to try would be to play a round of "Look at That" outside a dog park, and, when Truman is totally focused on you, release him to "Go Sniff!". Inevitably, another dog will run alongside the fence or the grass may just smell of dog. It's a good way to allow Truman to sniff other dogs without head-to-head contact. Then, immediately recall him and wash, rinse, repeat the exercise. It's a good foundation for on-leash, head-to-head greetings.

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Another thing to try would be to play a round of "Look at That" outside a dog park, and, when Truman is totally focused on you, release him to "Go Sniff!". Inevitably, another dog will run alongside the fence or the grass may just smell of dog. It's a good way to allow Truman to sniff other dogs without head-to-head contact. Then, immediately recall him and wash, rinse, repeat the exercise. It's a good foundation for on-leash, head-to-head greetings.

 

:yay I like this idea. Our dog park is divided into three sections- one of them is usually empty. I might try to walk him up to the fence in one of the empty areas (on-leash) and treat him for sniffing the dog through the fence. If he doesn't like it, he's free to back off.

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:yay I like this idea. Our dog park is divided into three sections- one of them is usually empty. I might try to walk him up to the fence in one of the empty areas (on-leash) and treat him for sniffing the dog through the fence. If he doesn't like it, he's free to back off.

I think doing Giselle's exerise makes sense, but I would be careful about just letting him off leash and leaving him to do as he chooses. Part of the reason off leash intros can be tricky are because the dogs can't progress easily from the quick nose to nose sniff to the butt sniffing/circling because owners hold the leashes too short, leashes get tangled, etc. Sniffing through the fence means this can't happen at all and Truman may not choose to back off on his own. We sometimes come across this at the dog park and I may let him do it for a few seconds, but then he's called immediately away. What I've seen happen is if it goes on too long or especially if the other dog does the slightest thing that can be perceived as unfriendly, lift a lip a cm for instance :P it sets Zuri off.

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Guest Giselle

That is a valid concern! For me, I find that fence greetings are the safest means to teach my Dobermutt social skills, although she is an extreme case. In my experience, a lot of dogs show reactivity and/or aggression because they lack "normal" social skills. For example, my Dobermutt basically lacks the social skills to tell another dog, "Okay, I'm done" or "Okay, go away now". Through the fence, you can help teach the dog this by allowing them to "Go Sniff", letting them sniff while staying below threshold, and recalling them before things go awry. Most other dogs at the dog park do have these basic social skills, and, when I videorecord them, I can actually see that most dogs will sniff for 3-5 seconds and then send "Okay, I'm done" signals or they simply walk away. Examples here:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LSophie/media/Videos/SniffandFocus.mp4.html

This is an example of Focus and Go Sniff. Notice that other dogs do a nose-to-nose for about 3-5 seconds before sending "Okay, I'm done" signals or walking away. At the end, my dog is sniffing as a displacement behavior because other dogs were crowding around us. At the time, I didn't notice (sigh). But it's all good social skill practice.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LSophie/media/Videos/DisruptFocus.mp4.html

This is an example of how you can intervene to ensure that the nose-to-nose greetings stay under threshold. The Cocker sends his own "I'm done" signal by walking laterally to my dog and eventually walking away. I have a bunch more videos that show how, through the fence, dogs will disrupt the nose-to-nose greetings by sending "I'm done" signals or walking away, but I can't find them on my new computer! So, no, they may not be able to do a full nose-to-butt circular greeting, but they do know how to move on from the nose-to-nose intro, and I think teaching Truman to inhibit his arousal during these situations would be extraordinarily helpful for on-leash greetings.

 

ETA: I just wanted to add.. Don't get caught up in the details. The bottom line goal is just to teach your dog how to greet in a safe, controlled manner. It's a 3-5 second scenario, tops, so, as long as you can control Truman for those 3-5 seconds, you're golden. Then, move on and keep walking! That's it!

Edited by Giselle
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