Pleading For Experienced Advice Asap!

[Guest spicy]

Definitely relax! It's not at all an uncommon behaviou, especially from a dog who has never had all this "good" stuff that she doesn't want to give up. I don't think I could add to the advice you've gotten here, so I'll just say that with a little patience and a little training, you can get through this with no problems.

 

Where abouts in Canada are you located?

[Fruitycake]

We had a non-grey with the same kind of possessiveness over bones. We managed by not giving them to her again. Anything else we could take from her but bones were like the Hope Diamond and she was not giving them up! We did work on trading up for other things, since it worried us, but never felt right about testing that bone affection.

 

And I also have another dog who is a sidewalk snack eater. Again, not a grey, and we can't find a good basket muzzle that fits her (keeshond), so we just watch like a freaking hawk when we're walking. Unfortunately that doesn't work with things neighborhood cats are leaving under shrubs along our route. If we catch her before she swallows whatever it is we can take it from her just fine (absolutely no possessiveness to this dog) - it's just catching her at it. Our grey used to complain about people (and cats) getting too close when he was eating his turkey necks or half chickens in his kennel, but that's completely resolved. I can help him eat odd shaped things by holding on to them now, or pick things up that he's dropped to re-offer them to him without a problem.

 

You've gotten a lot of good advice, and I'm glad that you're feeling better about it.

[Guest EvanstonGrey]

Lots of good advice here - this is the BEST place to get help with the sort of thing. I'm no expert, but dealt with this sort of thing with my boy when we brought him home. What was really important for me was to take a break, give yourselves some time to rebuild trust and have fun before you start working on training "drop" or "give" again. If you're scared and nervous it will make it much harder for you both - lots of pets, walks, and playtime go a long way. Your pup is not mean or vicious, and I really think this can be sorted out with time and patience. Good luck to you!

[Guest iconsmum]

Whereabouts are you located?

 

First thing I'd do is fire that trainer -- he or she is an idiot. And maybe fire your adoption group as advisors, for the same reason. This is a very common behavior in dogs.

 

Second thing I'd do is, temporarily, use a kennel (basket) muzzle on walks until you feel confident about scanning for stuff the dog can grab and/or until you can teach a reliable "drop it!" command.

 

You can find a lot of descriptions of teaching "drop it!" or "trading up" if you do a search in this forum. What we do, in brief, is:

 

1. Find something like an old washcloth that the dog won't want. Fill your pockets with very special treats that you don't use for anything else.

2. Offer the washcloth to the dog. If she won't take it, set it down between her front paws.

3. Bright, cheerful, "Drop it!", take the washcloth back, "Good girl!" and hand her a delicious treat.

4. GIVE THE WASHCLOTH BACK.

5. Repeat 1-4 several times in a row, several times a day. Always leave the washcloth with the dog.

 

After you've done the above @ 10-12 times, swap out the washcloth for an object that the dog might be mildly interested in -- say, an old toy. Then an object that the dog is somewhat interested in. And so on. If at any point you observe the dog starting to get tense about giving up the object, go back to the previous, less-desirable object and practice some more for a few days before moving on. Your goal is that as soon as you say "drop it!" the dog lets go of the object and looks at you with delight and great expectations -- this is a really fun game, and the dog always wins.

 

 

 

 

won't find any better description than this - I'm a trainer and I'm taking notes )

[silverfish]

Another thing you can do in a while is this: when you offer her a treat, let her take hold of it but don't let go immediately. Hold onto the other end for a second or two, saying 'Good girl!' before letting go. If you can, stand by her shoulder when you do it, so that you can have one hand lightly on her there as you hand her the treat with the other. She'll probably look confused, but that's good. I do this when I put a new dog's dinner bowl down, too - one hand on their shoulder while I put the bowl down, and take my time doing it. It helps them to begin to get used to being touched while they're eating. Talk to her in a calm slow voice while you're doing it, too.

While she's learning, don't give her things that take her too long to eat. Hand feeding is good, too. All these things will help her to understand that treats come from you, that it's your choice and they are yours to give or withhold, but that you won't tease her or take them from her needlessly. She just needs to learn to trust you in that.

[Guest Marsroving]

Wow, this takes me back. The first time Mars was given a bone he growled and snapped at me from across the room, just for LOOKING at him eating his bone! It scared the you know what out of me. Now I know to trade up and can retrieve anything from him with no fear.

[Guest Trammell]

Wow you guys! I feel so much better after reading all of your wonderful and supportive responses I'm breathing again and my heart beginning to mend back together; I'm sure Ami would also be gasping with excitement if she got wind of this! I love her so much! I am more dedicated now than I was since I brought her home; I will teach her to "drop-it" and "leave-it" everyday until it becomes a piece of cake...no lets make that a piece of beef jerky. Last night I took away all of her toys and possessions and will use these as things she can earn back with politeness and respect for boundaries. I'm going to follow the Leadership program and do my best to resolve any of her insecurities as a result of my not so strict leadership skills (I did do my best). We will work together and I will take in to account all of your suggestions...I have to learn somewhere so why not learn from the seasoned professionals!

 

Ami and I are going to a friend's cottage for the night; I wasn't looking forward to this but now I can't wait to get home from work and load her in the car!

 

Ami says Thank you Thank you Thank you and not to be too harsh on the trainer

 

We will keep in touch and update you on our progress; looking forward to being a part of this Grey loving family!

 

 

My disclaimer: not a trainer, nor as experienced as others, but I did have the same problem as you are experiencing. I think maybe taking away all the cool stuff might make her resource guard more? I don't think it is about being more strict with your leadership, but let her know that she doesn't need to guard cool stuff because there is even more cool stuff that comes from your hands when she gives something up.

 

Glad you feel better I will be the echo in the room and say use the Batmom method it is excellent in helping with this issue. My Grey snapped at me at the beginning because of this same thing. I can't remember now if I was reaching for something near her and she thought I was trying to take something, or if I was actually attempting to grab something she shouldn't have, either way she doesn't do it anymore because I did do what Batmom suggested - I think she has suggested it in multiple forums, lol, a very good thing indeed! I also began putting yummy treats in her food bowl when she was eating so that she would get use to my hands near her food equaling good things. Someone here, or in a training book gave detailed instructions for that, but you do not start with your hand near the bowl, you gradually work your way up. I can take food/bones from Loni without worries now. I am hoping someone reading this can expand on that, because it was a great help with Loni in conjunction with the trade up training.

 

Regarding the trainer, I am sure she/he was well meaning. People have different styles of training, when I had my first dog the dominance theory was all the rage. Taking the bowl away while the dog was eating was the solution for food guarding. With a puppy, this did work and the dog had no problem with me messing with his food, I wouldn't do it with any dog I didn't know because I don't want to get bit In general, there has been a movement away from this style of training. However, if a trainer has used this method before, or if they have learned from a trainer that does this than it may be the training style that the trainer uses. Caesar, dog whisper, I think that is his name and title, removes the object of resource guarding in his training. I have only seen a couple of clips of his shows, but I saw one where the dog guarded food. He took the bowl that the dog was guarding away. He got bit, ouch. I have used both methods, and I have happier pups with the trade up method, pups who I am not afraid of, and who trust me not to steal their stuff You may want to speak to your trainer about his/her basic philosophy of training and than maybe get a second opinion from a trainer that uses positive reinforcement methods rather than the dominance theory? Ultimately, you will know what philosophy you believe in and will work best for your dog.

 

I am assuming your adoption group was surprised at the dog's behavior because the foster parent was able to take items from the dog previously? I would think there is at least some reason behind them thinking you were exaggerating the situation until they witnessed it that maybe isn't coming across in your initial post? It is nice to have a good support system

Edited August 2, 2013 by Trammell

[Jackandgrey]

You have received such good advice from Batmom and others, This kind of post is often the first one people make. It was mine with my first boy Jack. He was the sweetest most gentle boy in the world. I was beyond horrified when he bit me when I tried to take away a bone. I had been able to take anything out of his mouth before but this was his first bone. I got the similar advice from people here and I follow with every new dog I get.

 

I wouldn't take away all her toys etc. This is not a punishment and she does get to have fun. Just keep back the fabulous reward treats for training only - no other time.

 

You sound much more relaxed and I'm glad of that. You are not alone and so very many of us have been in the same place. It'll be fine!

Edited August 2, 2013 by Jackandgrey

[Guest k9soul]

I too am very surprised that the adoption agency and trainer did not believe or seem familiar with resource guarding. Most dogs will guard a treasure from another dog, and retired racers in particular have never been an environment where they had hands reaching in to take something good from them. I agree with a lot of the great advice you've been given. I also don't think I'd go so far as to take all her toys away, though. My first mission when I brought Rudy home was to reinforce to him again and again that I'm a source of good things. When I first fed him and I approached his bowl, he did not growl but he started gobbling it a lot faster which is a sign of anxiety and protectiveness too. So I made a point to walk up and add yummy things to his dish while he was eating; a bit of cheese, a bit of hotdog, some chicken, a dollop of yogurt, whatever I happened to have on hand. He got to the point after awhile of stopping eating when I approached and wagging in anticipation, just what I wanted!

 

When I first gave him a meaty bone to chew, he did growl when I approached him. That is until he realized I had some bits of roast beef that he got to eat when he left the bone and came over to me. At that point, I wasn't working on taking, but working on getting him comfortable with me approaching when he had something. He now not only does not care when I approach him, he brings his bone to where ever I'm at and lays down nearby to chew it.

 

So you see, it can all work out just great, and I'm sure it will. As others said, always set her up for success (unlike the trainer) and your bond will be all the deeper as you work through this together.

[silverfish]

K9Soul also has great advice. Adding something good to the bowl is something we do regularly, too.

[philospher77]

I agree with not taking all the toys away. (My trainer's advice: put 5 toys out, and rotate them frequently, daily if possible.) Katie growled at me the first time I tried to take her bully stick away. When I got Pixie, I was more experienced, so she didn't have to growl at me since I correctly interpreted her freezing over the bully stick as an indication of discomfort. Now, when I give out bully sticks, I put out 3 or 4. The dogs grab one and go lie down on beds next to each other and chew away peacefully. Although they will immediately take the other dog's bully stick if they walk away from it! Something about whatever the other one has being better, I guess. But when the other dog comes back, there are other ones available (including the one that was abandoned when the dog stole the other one), so there's no snarking. And I can take them away, although I do generally trade for them, just so we all stay trusting. Trade easy-to-eat things, so that you aren't stuck trying to figure out how to get THAT away from the dog!

[Guest debster]

I'm not an experienced grey owner, but I helped raise a mini schnauzer that did the same thing (and we still don't give her very high value chews because she still tends to be very possessive). It is not unusual at all, and many breeds do it! It's about the dog's personality.

 

The advice everyone is giving is spot on. The key thing is to not worry, relax, and slowly work with your dog until she trusts that you don't mean to steal from her. It's all about love and patience. Good luck!

[Guest Amis_Ma]

Again thanks for all of the wonderful support; Ami and I have been working on drop-it and wait and has been doing great! Each time is getting better and better, she's learning so quickly. It's almost as though she sensed that I was considering re-homing her, if only for a split second, and began turning behaviours around almost instantaneously. We are working so well together. She earned back a couple of toys and by the looks of things she will have them all back before too soon! I love her so darn much...she's one lucky doggie as the love I would've had for a child is all going towards her

[Guest june]

Love a happy ending!

 

I'm so glad that you are working with her. You will find her to be your shadow and best friend the longer you work together. Welcome to the wonderful world of Greyhounds

[silverfish]

Good to hear she's responding so well and so quickly!

[GeorgeofNE]

George almost took my arm off the first time he had a bone! I knew better, and yet...I reached for it and WOW was a shocked!

 

I backed away, got him a dog biscuit, held it out, he dropped the bone, problem solved!

 

If I hadn't been around dogs my entire life, I might have reacted VERY differently.

 

Be advised that Batmom is probably one of the most sensible posters on GT, so you can always count on her advice. Also, any fool can call themself a dog trainer. There is no test you have to take, no oversight, no licensing. Do NOT go back to that one. What a knucklehead!