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Trying To Walk A Stone Statue :(


Guest DMBFiredancer

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Guest Trammell

 

So if the vegan police wants to nitpick the little things that are out of my control, that's fine.....I'll call myself vegan, and y'all can call me vegetarian ;)

That made me giggle, and I'm neither vegetarian or vegan :P

 

I won't tell you either to force your doggie to go, or to wait, because I really don't know which is best for you and your dog. However, I can sympathize, I really wanted a Grey that would run/jog with me. I knew with any Grey I adopted it would take time to work up the stamina to jog; however, I didn't realize that my dog would HATE jogging/running, and would absolutely REFUSE to join in this fantastic activity! She really doesn't even like walks, unless she is jealous that I am taking another dog on a walk! She lags behind the entire time at a slow (almost sedentary) pace. I fear onlookers think I am torturing her and making her go well past her fitness level (this is even before we make it to the end of the drive, never mind she can run and chase squirrels all day long). I thought she would change (and she may, it's only been a year and a half with her), but she hates jogging, and really isn't big into walking unless other dogs are involved *sigh*, so the big dog to jog with me stays at home while I take me 10 pounder for a jog (along with whatever foster I have at the time that ranges from 70-90 lbs). Maybe you can borrow another dog for the mean time to walk with? I use to borrow my friends big dogs (I want a big dog with me when I walk/jog) before fostering a breed I knew like to jog. FWIW, I wouldn't trade Loni for anything :) she is my cranky, jealous, non-jogging pup, but I love her to bits!

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nix the night walk if it is causing TOO much stress but still force her out for the morning one at least.

 

My question to this is "why?". You've only had Grace for about 2 weeks, right? I agree with those who have suggested giving her time and not forcing her. Forcing a dog to do something they find very stressful doesn't really teach them anything, can interfere with her learning to trust you, and can actually scare her more and make things worse. I mostly foster shy and spooky greyhounds, and when I get a new foster, I try to keep forced interactions and expectations to a minimum for the first 2-3 weeks. During this time, they are just given time and space to become accustomed to my household routine, learn to trust me, and work on everyday essentials like housetraining and basic manners.

 

After the initial adjustment period, I start to do a little more, but I let the dog set the pace. At some point, you may need to push a little and make the dog face challenges, but it's done in small steps, at a rate that the dog can handle and easily recover from.

 

First, does Grace get nervous walking on leash, or is it the outside world that scares her? It sounds like she's developed a bad association with putting on the martingale/leash with scary walks. So the first step is to change that association and reintroduce the collar/leash in a way that is not scary. Put it on at random times in the house and give her treats. Or since she's ok in the yard, try putting the martingale on out in the yard and just walk her around the yard and give treats.

 

Is there a gate from your yard to the front/street? If so, once she's comfortable walking around the yard with you, open the gate and just gradually work on exiting the gate, hanging out in your front yard, and give her treats. It may take days or weeks to make it down the driveway to the street, but you want to go slow enough that you don't totally stress her out. Once you work through the initial baby steps, progress usually starts to go much faster, but keep the walks short and gradually work on increasing distance away from your house.

 

If walks aren't essential, there's no reason you need to stress her out every day with a forced walk. Go slow, and show her that walks fun and pleasant, not something scary that she's forced to endure.

Jennifer &

Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On),

Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice

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Guest DMBFiredancer

That made me giggle, and I'm neither vegetarian or vegan :P

 

I won't tell you either to force your doggie to go, or to wait, because I really don't know which is best for you and your dog. However, I can sympathize, I really wanted a Grey that would run/jog with me. I knew with any Grey I adopted it would take time to work up the stamina to jog; however, I didn't realize that my dog would HATE jogging/running, and would absolutely REFUSE to join in this fantastic activity! She really doesn't even like walks, unless she is jealous that I am taking another dog on a walk! She lags behind the entire time at a slow (almost sedentary) pace. I fear onlookers think I am torturing her and making her go well past her fitness level (this is even before we make it to the end of the drive, never mind she can run and chase squirrels all day long). I thought she would change (and she may, it's only been a year and a half with her), but she hates jogging, and really isn't big into walking unless other dogs are involved *sigh*, so the big dog to jog with me stays at home while I take me 10 pounder for a jog (along with whatever foster I have at the time that ranges from 70-90 lbs). Maybe you can borrow another dog for the mean time to walk with? I use to borrow my friends big dogs (I want a big dog with me when I walk/jog) before fostering a breed I knew like to jog. FWIW, I wouldn't trade Loni for anything :) she is my cranky, jealous, non-jogging pup, but I love her to bits!

 

Good idea....I think if she doesn't want that evning walk, I'll just have to go myself :) Then maybe she will get then hint and want to join me!

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Guest DMBFiredancer

 

My question to this is "why?".

 

First, does Grace get nervous walking on leash, or is it the outside world that scares her? It sounds like she's developed a bad association with putting on the martingale/leash with scary walks. So the first step is to change that association and reintroduce the collar/leash in a way that is not scary. Put it on at random times in the house and give her treats. Or since she's ok in the yard, try putting the martingale on out in the yard and just walk her around the yard and give treats.

 

That's what is hard for me....Those in the other side of the argument would say, "Why not?" It's so tough to figure out exactly what to do, but at this point I am trying to take the advice someone said about me being the one who knows my dog (as well as the foster mom who gave the advice.) I started this post because I was feeling frustrated, and I just didn't know what was best. Then I just felt overwhelmed and decided to just stick with the foster's advice, since she also knows my dog.

 

I apologize if this post ruffled any feathers....I now realize that there are SO many opinions and ideas and ultimately I need to do what I think is best. Maybe I shouldn't have started the thread and just called the adoption group from the beginning. But, as I have found out from reading so many posts BEFORE I even adopted.....what one person replies might not necessarily be what *I* end up doing, but it might help someone else who reads this thread and is in the same situation. Someone else may read this and say, "yeah....my dog is definitely NOT going to respond to me forcing her to go on a walk so I'm going to back off" while others might connect to the advice by those who say she should be going.

 

As far as your question about what she is afraid of....I don't think it is the leash...she's an angel getting that on. I think its the scary noises of the outside world. How will she ever get used to them if she never hears them coupled with calming words? I guess that it where I am now.....expose in the morning but back off at night when she is more stressed.

 

Thank you again everyone :)

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I have to walk mine because we don't have a yard and they do fine (although I do have pull Mason as he lags behind). But Mason does not enjoy long walks and I don't force him. I will walk up to 3 miles and I just don't take him. I will only take Molly on short 1-1 1/2 mile walks. I've had them for almost 2 years. Go on your walks on your own for now and let Gracie adjust to all the new and wonderful things in her life. The walks will come with time. She may learn to love them and she may not.

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Guest DMBFiredancer

...

 

Did you have a change of thought?

I have your original post if you need a refresher....these things DO get emailed to me. :nod

 

Anyway.....I will still respond.....

I COMPLETELY agree with you that words DO have meaning.....THAT is why I call myself vegan.....(even though you apparently think I am not...but it's ok....you are entitled to your opinion)

 

But, just for the sake of the argument....and because I am bored.....let's play a game....

Let's take a look at what would happen if I called myself "vegetarian".....shall we?

 

If I called myself vegetarian......

 

~the waiters at the restaurants I go to would assume that cheese, and eggs, and butter are ok for me. They would adjust the menu accordingly for me, but I would not be able to eat it. Boo.

I don't eat anything that comes from an animal. Vegetarians do. They still eat butter, eggs, cheese, ice cream, and the whole dairy case.....

 

~my friends who are so incredibly kind to always have a dish at parties that does not contain any cheese, eggs, butter, etc would assume that I still ate those if I called myself "vegetarian"

Luckily I use the right WORD, so they know I am vegan and are kind enough to make something I would enjoy (without me even asking or requesting it, mind you.....my friends are just that nice.)

WOO! Now I have some yummy appetizers I can eat instead of just watching everyone else eat!

 

~my friends and family might buy me a gift made of leather....or a wool sweater.....or a silk scarf.....or a down jacket.....or a fur-lined coat.....but because I use the WORD vegan, they don't....

it would really suck to have to return a nice gift my mom bought me, huh? She'd be sad. I don't like making my momma sad.

 

So see?

Words DO have meaning.

And thankfully I use the right one :)

 

I seriously didn't think a thread about my dog not wanting to go on walks would turn into me having to defend my use of the word "vegan," but....I'm game. :)

Have a blessed day!

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Guest chickenpotpie

When we got lucky she was a very reluctant walker. 4 days of that isht and I was too through, I told her you're going for a walk! Thats all it took, me telling HER what she's going to do and making her believe it. Since that day, no issues with walks. In fact we took a 2 mile hike today. She loves the woods and water for that matter. (she does not like rain however :hehe )

 

Like its been said, you have to be confident in yourself, not just say be confident, and once you are, you shouldn't have so many issues getting her to go on walks.

I've had no other serious statuing out of her except for the inside stairs, but she'll tackle those whenever she gets lonely enough.

 

Don't beat yourself up and take your time. It'll happen.:)

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Guest DMBFiredancer

When we got lucky she was a very reluctant walker. 4 days of that isht and I was too through, I told her you're going for a walk! Thats all it took, me telling HER what she's going to do and making her believe it. Since that day, no issues with walks. In fact we took a 2 mile hike today. She loves the woods and water for that matter. (she does not like rain however :hehe )

 

Like its been said, you have to be confident in yourself, not just say be confident, and once you are, you shouldn't have so many issues getting her to go on walks.

 

I've had no other serious statuing out of her except for the inside stairs, but she'll tackle those whenever she gets lonely enough.

 

Don't beat yourself up and take your time. It'll happen. :)

 

Wow! 2 miles! That's awesome!!!!!! :) This is inspiring!!

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That's what is hard for me....Those in the other side of the argument would say, "Why not?" It's so tough to figure out exactly what to do, but at this point I am trying to take the advice someone said about me being the one who knows my dog (as well as the foster mom who gave the advice.)

 

No ruffled feathers, and I completely agree that you should do what you feel is best for your dog. I do believe I answered the question of "why not?" in my previous post. Forcing a scared dog carries the potential risk of making things worse.

 

You know your dog better than anyone here, but sometimes you just can't tell which dogs will get worse and which ones will be able to tolerate being forced until you try it. Let Grace's behavior and response be the ultimate deciding factor. If things don't improve or get worse after a period of forcing the morning walk, it may be time to reassess. If she improves, then great! But you do run the risk that if forcing her makes things worse, you may be faced with a lot more remedial work before you even get back to the initial starting point. I've learned this the hard way, and I share my opinion to try to help others. I just feel there are better options that aren't as risky.

 

As far as your question about what she is afraid of....I don't think it is the leash...she's an angel getting that on. I think its the scary noises of the outside world. How will she ever get used to them if she never hears them coupled with calming words?

 

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't advocating never exposing your dog to things she finds scary. My previous response also included detailed instructions on how to do it, just more gradually. If your dog isn't all that stressed, you may not need to go that slow, but IMO, it never hurts to take things more gradually. Btw, coupling the scary noises with yummy treats tends to be more effective than calming words. :)

Jennifer &

Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On),

Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice

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Guest Trammell

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't advocating never exposing your dog to things she finds scary. My previous response also included detailed instructions on how to do it, just more gradually. If your dog isn't all that stressed, you may not need to go that slow, but IMO, it never hurts to take things more gradually. Btw, coupling the scary noises with yummy treats tends to be more effective than calming words. :)

The OP said her dog won't take treats even for putting on the collar and leash...it stood out to me because my Grey won't take treats (any treat, no matter how wonderful it is) when she is anxious. It makes training different. I have to lift her in the car for instance.

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Guest DMBFiredancer

The OP said her dog won't take treats even for putting on the collar and leash...it stood out to me because my Grey won't take treats (any treat, no matter how wonderful it is) when she is anxious. It makes training different. I have to lift her in the car for instance.

 

True....I've been trying all different kids of treats, but nothing seems to get her attention when she is anxious. :(

Trammell, anything else work for you other than lots of praise, love, and pets when your dog gets into that zone of not accepting any treat as a reward?

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I rarely walk a new dog here until we've had them for a few months. Some of them haven't had any leash manners so we practice that in the backyard. When they have "statued" I stop beside them, turn around and head in the opposite direction. If they stop again I repeat the turn around. It must look quite entertaining to my neighbors. I never pull on the leash and I always have it shortened for better control. I have only had one dog, Thane, who was too spooky and never could enjoy a walk so we didn't force him to.

 

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Not accepting a treat:

 

If the dog normally accepts treats and this is something we HAVE to do (for example, go outside to use the bathroom, or walk into the vet's office), then we keep doing and I keep offering the reward. A year or more can go by but I am going to have that reward ready every darned time, and one day the dog is going to take it. :)

 

If the dog normally accepts treats and this is something we do NOT have to do, then I quit doing it for the time being -- the dog is stressed or operating with a very full brain and needs some time and space to chill.

 

If the dog is not food-oriented at the best of times, I judge by other means as to whether we proceed with the activity or not.

 

 

 

Have to do vs. do NOT have to do: When I bring a new dog home, there are very few HAVE to's. Every new dog learns to go up and down the stairs, use the bathroom outside, and refrain from eating from the people's plates :lol . Beyond that, I let the dog's behavior guide what I'll ask when. Some dogs are ready for lots more very quickly; others aren't.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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The OP said her dog won't take treats even for putting on the collar and leash...it stood out to me because my Grey won't take treats (any treat, no matter how wonderful it is) when she is anxious. It makes training different. I have to lift her in the car for instance.

 

This is exactly why I suggested changing the context and putting her collar on and rewarding with treats at other times and other locations, not just when getting ready for a walk. And also why I suggested leaving the house through a different exit, if possible. She's already developed a bad association with a particular pre-walk routine. Changing that and going slowly and rewarding a new routine can help change the dog's whole association with the 'scary activity'.

 

If a dog (who usually takes treats) is too anxious to take treats, then you're going too fast and overwhelming them. Batmom made excellent points about "Have to do vs. do NOT have to do".

Jennifer &

Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On),

Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice

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Guest Trammell

 

True....I've been trying all different kids of treats, but nothing seems to get her attention when she is anxious. :(

Trammell, anything else work for you other than lots of praise, love, and pets when your dog gets into that zone of not accepting any treat as a reward?

 

Short & Sweet version: I used the same method as I do with my daughter when she is afraid. I took charge, and showed her there was nothing to be afraid of. I wasn't cruel or mean (mocking or yelling), but rather firm and matter of fact, and rewarded (without coddling) the desired response. It just felt natural that since she was afraid and anxious she needed a leader/mom to show her that some things aren't scary.

 

This has worked with cars (those very scary things driving fast along a 45 mph road that we walked in route to my daughter's school - of course we were on the sidewalk), I kept walking, said firmly "let's go", and then praised her with a "good girl" and literally a pat on the back (I wanted to show there wasn't anything to be afraid of, so I didn't baby talk, etc.). Having us in charge actually gives her confidence and is a relief because she doesn't have to worry about making decisions. Although we started this method naturally, when we went to a behaviorist it was reaffirmed to continue this method, and it was explained better to us (jealousy issues and behavior towards my little dogs, required expert opinion immediately with a child in the house). Basically I was told that with an anxious dog it is a huge relief when you start to take away options, and you make the choices for the dog. So now she isn't so skittish on walks (even though she only goes on them because she is jealous the other ones are going <_< ). She goes to Lowe's and Petsmart, to the park, every where that we can take her. She is still scared of car rides though. She does this thing where she starts turning her head and pretending she can not see it :flip of course she is probably turning away from it with doggie language to say she doesn't like it, but to me it is "ignoring" it so it will go away! I pick her up and put her in the crate in the car. And of course we go lots of places that she loves, in order to associate car rides with good things. She still won't take treats in the car, but now she will take them from me when I am sitting in the car. This is a huge improvement for her, because she use to not take treats if A car was in sight (not just ours). She also use to not take treats when walking, but now she will take them from me when we are on a walk. As Batmom said, it will depend on if your dog likes treats other times. Loni does and I used them to train sit, down, etc.

 

Funny thing about Loni, she is super social and loves to be petted by children and adults, most people have no idea that she is afraid of her shadow :hehe

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Guest Trammell

 

This is exactly why I suggested changing the context and putting her collar on and rewarding with treats at other times and other locations, not just when getting ready for a walk. And also why I suggested leaving the house through a different exit, if possible. She's already developed a bad association with a particular pre-walk routine. Changing that and going slowly and rewarding a new routine can help change the dog's whole association with the 'scary activity'.

 

If a dog (who usually takes treats) is too anxious to take treats, then you're going too fast and overwhelming them. Batmom made excellent points about "Have to do vs. do NOT have to do".

 

I disagree that it means you are going too fast and overwhelming the dog. They are already overwhelmed and have a lot going on in their head, the choice is to either not have them address the fear until later, or be the leader and guide them through a situation so that it will no longer be scary. There is more than one way to skin a cat. It depends on the owner and the dog what will work in that dynamic. What worked with my dog was to show confidence, make decisions for her, and show her there was nothing to be afraid of. Eventually she took the treats on walks, and some day she will take a treat in the car, but at least now she has more confidence and gets to go places with her family where she gets what she loves - attention and pettings.

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Guest jenniferk

Hi! And congrats on adopting Grace! Django had that same problem. We have a tiny yard with no grass so have to leash walk him to potty, so his refusing to walk was a huge issue for us. We tried pretty much everything that people suggested. What worked for us was

  • running backward in front of him
  • jogging just enough to get him moving
  • driving him to a new place to walk, like a nice park
  • getting my neighbor to walk her dog with us since he was more comfortable around other dogs
  • going different routes since he didn't like going the same place
  • using high-reward treats and treating and praising like crazy when he started moving
  • trying to avoid triggers we knew he was afraid of (we worked on introducing him to triggers and uncomfortable situations later on, when our relationship was stronger)
  • singing or talking to him loudly while on walks (part of what scared him was loud city noises)

 

When he absolutely refused to move off the front porch, we didn’t force him and instead just let him go potty on our concrete patio in back. As for the treats, try to get her attention (does she know “watch me” or “look?”) before she sees or hears the trigger so that you’re giving her treats right when she experiences the triggers and can then start associating them with good things.

 

What didn’t work was

  • pushing, pulling, or forcing him in any way—He had aggression problems and we were cautious around him.
  • getting frustrated—He is extremely sensitive as I’m sure Grace is, so he would definitely pick up on our feelings.

Obedience training helped to build our relationship with him, but I honestly think it just took him time to trust us and know we won't let anything happen to him on walks. Django had a ton of issues (to the point we were considering returning him), but I believe that time, patience, and love helped the most. And even today, a year and two months after we got him, he is still terrified of the newspaper delivery car on walks! He will still walk, but he is nervous though he recovers quickly. But overall, he is a completely different dog now—and the love of my life. :beatheart So whatever you are doing that is building your relationship with her will definitely help! She will get past this stage, and giving her all the love and patience you can will help her get there.

By the way, I also eat a plant-based diet, but I do buy Django meat and fish that I use for training treats. Like I said, he had a lot of issues, and he was also food obsessed. I was upset about buying meat and fish at first, but Zuke’s peanut butter training treats only went so far. At least when I buy it myself I can ensure the quality and source of the meat and fish, which you can’t really do with packaged treats. And I think it's absolutely hilarious that the vegan police are here on GT! :lol

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Guest Trammell

is there anyone with a dog you can walk with for a while?

 

What a great question, you should post it as a new forum and see what responses you get? I smell a poll :P You have probably noticed in the other forums people talking about their hikes and stuff with their dogs, and I remember from reading some other discussions that it varies by dog, and that building up endurance is important.

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