Opinions Please On X-Ray And Recommendations

[tuff]

Tiger, my almost 7 year old boy has been yipping occasionally for the past couple of weeks when rising from his bed. Once he is up he has been fine including running around the yard like a crazy dog, with no limping. Yesterday the yipping when getting out of bed got suddenly worse to where it is not a GSOD, but is more then a yip, and is followed by whining. It didn't happen every time, but more than 1/2 the time. It is still going on today. He is also more subdued today and I think favors his left front leg. He raised that leg at least once when rising. I took him to the E-vet today. I think she wanted to put him on rest/rimadyl and tramadol and see how he is in a week. He is not limping and you can't elicit any pain reaction. I insisted on X-rays after having spent too much time on this board. She said the x-rays showed nothing "really scary", but then went on to mention a small lucency in the head of the humerus. She didn't seem overly concerned (she is not an ortho). Her recommendation is rest and the meds and re-xray in 10-14 days if he is not better.

We are supposed to fly out of town for a week vacation next Saturday.

If I fill out a consultation form from Ohio state and include the X-rays, will this be of any use? Will they make any suggestions as to the best course of action at this point?

He is on 75mg tramadol q8-12 hr and rimadyl 75mg bid.

Here are the x-ray files. The lesion in the humerus is a little hard to see. My husband enlarged and increased the contrast on the second one.

There is no way I can go to Ohio state this week. I could take him next week after my divorce for bailing on a long awaited vacation.

Opinions on what you would do??

Is waiting 2 weeks to see if its "worse" really a reasonable option?

 

I am quite worried by the X-ray.

[tbhounds]

Well, I do see what the vet picked up on the rads but, it may be just an incidental finding. Your hound sounds like he hurt his neck- very, very common with our retired racers. Here's what I would do--rest, rest and more rest. Leash walk only (with a harness-no more collar) and continue with the meds. I would also recommend starting robaxin and warm/wet compresses on his neck. They often limp or favor a leg especially when first rising as the pain runs right down the radial nerve.

For piece of mind have the rads evaluated by a board certified radiologist (or submit a consult to Ohio state or Colorado State). The "lesion" is not a typical area for OS-while it's seen in the humerus it's usually found below the joint.

My Shannon has IVDD and displayed the same symptoms-it took almost a month before she recovered from her last flair but, today is sound again. This type of condition will take patience.

http://www.csuanimalcancercenter.org/consult-service

Edited July 21, 2013 by tbhounds

[tuff]

Tbhounds,

Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I did know that OS typically doesn't involve the end of the bone, but that information fled in the face of my dog in pain. He seems to be less painful on the meds tonight. I will take the X-rays in to my vet tomorrow and ask about the robaxin.

 

Is it common for them to show no symptoms, except for when they get up from lying down?

[krissn333]

The noises when getting up are very typical of lower neck pain

 

I would start there. I would also ask for a script for methocarbamol. It's a muscle relaxer (Robaxin). It's great for neck things. Agree with tbhounds - harness, no collar. If he will allow you to gently massage him after the moist heat, do it.

 

Sometimes I alternate ice packs with moist heat. Ice reduces inflammation, heat encourages blood flow to the area. (I always think of the Icy Hot commercial: "Icy to dull the pain, hot to relax it away...").

[tuff]

Thanks Kristin!

[tbhounds]

Tbhounds,

Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I did know that OS typically doesn't involve the end of the bone, but that information fled in the face of my dog in pain. He seems to be less painful on the meds tonight. I will take the X-rays in to my vet tomorrow and ask about the robaxin.

Is it common for them to show no symptoms, except for when they get up from lying down?

Yes, it's common for them to be be a symptomatic until they move a particular way. I'm the same way with my own back :-(

[Victor]

Glad to hear it sounds like it's not OS. Regarding your question on OSU and x-rays, we did a consult with OSU earlier this month and the person who responded wasn't really willing to look at the x-rays we had attached.

[RaineysMom]

Tbhounds,

Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I did know that OS typically doesn't involve the end of the bone, but that information fled in the face of my dog in pain. He seems to be less painful on the meds tonight. I will take the X-rays in to my vet tomorrow and ask about the robaxin.

 

Is it common for them to show no symptoms, except for when they get up from lying down?

 

Nube's OS was at that exact spot, right on the end OSU should be able to get back to you on the consult, that may ease your mind. sending hugs.

[tbhounds]

Nube's OS was at that exact spot, right on the end OSU should be able to get back to you on the consult, that may ease your mind. sending hugs.

Of course OS can rear it's ugly head anywhere on any bone but, thankfully, the area the op is pointing out is rather rare. Let's keep our fingers crossed that its just an artifact on the image. I remember Nube--:-(

[Guest elliemae421]

Ohio State used my X rays and took new ones there. They were less expensive than I thought!

The Rimydal is rough on the belly and other areas. I am using Gabapentin and Tramadol together.

As you are talking to tbhounds she had also suggested I use Robaxin too for Willie,that is in the works tbhounds,LOL!

To tuff,I hope Tiger is on the mend. Never hesitate to go to Ohio State,they have been so good to Willie and I recently out there. TIGER!

[tuff]

Nube's OS was at that exact spot, right on the end OSU should be able to get back to you on the consult, that may ease your mind. sending hugs.

OK, now I'm worrying again I had hoped to bring the X-rays to my vet today but ended up having to work 13 hours instead.

Tiger has been essentially asymptomatic on the meds. I hadn't sent the consult to OSU but now I'll do it first thing in the morning.

[tuff]

Glad to hear it sounds like it's not OS. Regarding your question on OSU and x-rays, we did a consult with OSU earlier this month and the person who responded wasn't really willing to look at the x-rays we had attached.

I hope that is not the case:(

 

Yes, it's common for them to be be a symptomatic until they move a particular way. I'm the same way with my own back :-(

I've been trying to keep him quiet but it's hard with 5 dogs. He just grabbed a sheepskin rug and shook it so hard, it's hard to imagine he has a neck problem, even medicated.

 

Ohio State used my X rays and took new ones there. They were less expensive than I thought!

The Rimydal is rough on the belly and other areas. I am using Gabapentin and Tramadol together.

As you are talking to tbhounds she had also suggested I use Robaxin too for Willie,that is in the works tbhounds,LOL!

To tuff,I hope Tiger is on the mend. Never hesitate to go to Ohio State,they have been so good to Willie and I recently out there. TIGER!

I hope your boy is doing well!

[Guest elliemae421]

I hope that is not the case:(

 

I've been trying to keep him quiet but it's hard with 5 dogs. He just grabbed a sheepskin rug and shook it so hard, it's hard to imagine he has a neck problem, even medicated.

 

I hope your boy is doing well!

He has his crazy moments too! Trying to keep them under supervised limited movement! LOL! I try,trying to limit steps,jumping and running. The steps are easy.

Running I never know,go out with him ...seems fine then he bolts into a run,stop him all good again. I let him jump or get on the couch or spare bed sort of low. My big bed,no,I just block him out of there,it is very high. I could put him up there but who's to say while I am asleep he will jump down. Gotta be real careful for one more week. It was confirmed he has a very slight case of ventral spondylosis according to x rays at Ohio State.

[NeylasMom]

I would just send the X-rays to OSU through their online consultation service to be safe. Hopefully that's not what's going on here, but better to have someone particularly knowledgeable about osteo take a look. I do think it sounds more like neck or back pain myself but its worth keeping in mind that if it is osteo the pain could go away with meds, and if in the early stages stay away even once he's off them so I would not use that as your primary diagnostic tool.

[tuff]

I emailed OSU the consult this morning at 5am. I checked my email today at 11:00 and already had a response from Dr. Couto personally!!!!

 

"Dear Julie,

Sorry to hear about Tiger. There is a localized radiolucent (lytic) lesion in the cranial aspect of the proximal humerus, where unfortunately osteosarcomas occur often. However, in order to make sure the lesion is "real" we need to see additional Xray views (primarily one from the front)". Is Tiger painful in that area?

I am cc'ing Dr. Kisseberth who is on clinics, in the case you folks need to come in for additional diagnostics. Hang in there.

 

Guillermo"

 

He sounds like everything I have ever heard.

 

I have an appointment at my vets today at 2:30. Please hope with me it is not "real".

[tbhounds]

 

 

 

 

 

I emailed OSU the consult this morning at 5am. I checked my email today at 11:00 and already had a response from Dr. Couto personally!!!!

 

"Dear Julie,

Sorry to hear about Tiger. There is a localized radiolucent (lytic) lesion in the cranial aspect of the proximal humerus, where unfortunately osteosarcomas occur often. However, in order to make sure the lesion is "real" we need to see additional Xray views (primarily one from the front)". Is Tiger painful in that area?

I am cc'ing Dr. Kisseberth who is on clinics, in the case you folks need to come in for additional diagnostics. Hang in there.

 

Guillermo"

 

He sounds like everything I have ever heard.

 

I have an appointment at my vets today at 2:30. Please hope with me it is not "real".

 

 

 

Fingers Crossed here!!!! Please keep us posted! Dr Couto really is as wonderful as he seems :-)

Edited July 23, 2013 by tbhounds

[Batmom]

All fingers and toes crossed for your pup!

[galgrey]

:hope

[brianamac]

I have an appointment at my vets today at 2:30. Please hope with me it is not "real".

 

Any news from the vet on Tiger?

[JustSnoozing]

Sending a lot of good thoughts your way.

[tuff]

The saga is unfortunately still ongoing. My vet took some additional X-ray views and said he would be very suprised if OSU thought there was anything there. I have since sent Dr. Couto those X-rays, in 2 different file formats.... then he asked for the original E-vet Xrays in a different format. He reviewed everything today and emailed "I am a bit concerned about that lesion being real. If it is, Tiger should be painful when your vet puts pressure in that area". He is now consulting another vet and their radiologists, so I am waiting to hear. My vet manipulated his shoulder pretty vigorously and couldn't elicit pain, but Tiger was on Rimadyl and Tramadol at the time. I don't know what to think. I'm worried we are not going to get a definite answer at this point in time. OSU is a 9 hour drive for me, so I'm torn about where to go if he should happen to recommend biopsy. Or if he recommends biopsy vs waiting a few weeks and re-xraying. Tiger is only 6, and maybe a month would make all the difference.

 

I will be donating to OSU's program yearly from now on. I can't say enough good things about Dr. Couto and his team.

[tbhounds]

Nothing is ever easy with these guys :-). I guess I would sit tight and see what the other radiologist is going to say. Regarding to trip to Osu--many of us, myself included, have driven many many miles-some a lot further than yourself to receive the care that OSU offers. One thing to consider, however, one main reason to drive to OSU for the aspiration/biopsy would be that they would have immediate results (pathology is just one floor down) --if the results are positive for OS and if you chose to proceed they would take him immediately to surgery (amp). You would need to plan on staying there for about a week. Might be getting ahead of ourselves here but, these are some things you need to ponder.

Fingers crossed you'll hear good news.

[Guest elliemae421]

I agree with tbhounds on this!

I have recently made 6 trips in the last 2 months out there and never regret any of the trips there.

It is a 3 hour trip but I don't care.

I will be making another one on August 6th again to see how well the Palladia is doing on Willie!

Fingers,toes and eyes crossed!

[tuff]

I agree with tbhounds on this!

I have recently made 6 trips in the last 2 months out there and never regret any of the trips there.

It is a 3 hour trip but I don't care.

I will be making another one on August 6th again to see how well the Palladia is doing on Willie!

Fingers,toes and eyes crossed!

I'm just hoping it won't get to that point. It's actually a 10 hour drive for me and I have zero flexibility in my vacation which is scheduled a year in advance.

Dr Couto consulted one of their orthopedic surgeons who recommended an exam by an Ortho or re-X-ray in 4-6 weeks. I have weaned Tiger completely off the pain meds and he is doing great. We left for a week of vacation yesterday and Tiger is with my in-home dog sitter. If he is completely asymptomatic this week I will probably do the re-X-ray in a month. If there is any yiping that recurs I will have him see the Ortho at the specialty clinic. She did her ortho residency at OSU. I am starting to think the x-ray may be a red herring.

Willie is such a cute name

[Guest elliemae421]

I'm just hoping it won't get to that point. It's actually a 10 hour drive for me and I have zero flexibility in my vacation which is scheduled a year in advance.

Dr Couto consulted one of their orthopedic surgeons who recommended an exam by an Ortho or re-X-ray in 4-6 weeks. I have weaned Tiger completely off the pain meds and he is doing great. We left for a week of vacation yesterday and Tiger is with my in-home dog sitter. If he is completely asymptomatic this week I will probably do the re-X-ray in a month. If there is any yiping that recurs I will have him see the Ortho at the specialty clinic. She did her ortho residency at OSU. I am starting to think the x-ray may be a red herring.

Willie is such a cute name

Thanks on the name! It really is fitting for him! He is a 100% Willie too! I named him after one of the Steeler running backs, Fast Willie Parker!

I hope Tiger remains pain free for you!

I hope you get good news on him as well. I know work is sometimes hard to get out of,I work in the animal world so that helps a lot! I groom dogs! On July 11th I was able to cancel my last 4 dogs out and race him to Ohio State. Thought his cancer was going to worse and x rays revealed he has a slight case of ventral spondylosis now too. The x rays revealed nothing horribly bad,Willie has always had no tolerance to pain.

My other Grey is pretty tough!

Willie has 2 forms of cancer,Dr.Couto said surgery is not an option for this! He is on Palladia,and hopefully this will keep him healthy with the time we have left together. They give him 4 months to a year. I treasure anything Dr.Couto says to me! I had him as my mixed breed dogs surgeon before I even thought of getting a Greyhound! He is the one who steered me into the Greyhound world!

I secured him in February to give a lecture at our annual reunion in September this year...and I am so glad I did! He is a genius! He will do a lecture on Greyhound medicine and health! It is on a Saturday,if you need info on it let me know!

Again wishing you the best with tiger,keep me posted!