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Sitting In Obedience Class


Guest bayhorse
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Guest bayhorse

He can sit.

The repetative heel & sit merry go round in class has him quite frustrated though. He even let out a BARK and i know he must be feeling ??

The trainer lady seems to expect him to do as well as the other breeds *and just as Long* and i Told her, it is just not as easy for greyhounds.........O well there is no reason he cant sit on command better, it's not that long..... ETC

I told her, " I'm Not going to be makeing him sit for all this like the other dogs" and I left feeling very frustrated !!!!

So this is my first grey and I was wanting to ask all you pro's about this topic. Seems you can just google the topic and see yourself all the hoorah about it....

***********my rant**********

 

So i told her i will work on getting a sit up to 15 or so seconds........but asking for it 20 or so times in an hour just seems like a lot ??!

 

What do you think ?

 

And how would you deal with this lady ?

I want to pass the CGC test at the end of the class, and then work on the Therapy dog deal......

I dont want her to hold some stupid thing like this against him. Today was only the 2nd class. (10 weeks)

 

Then she wanted to know how old the dog was, maybe he has hip displaysia ? "well he is 4 and i really dont think that's it, i think it's just awkward for him." I dont think he is just being stubborn EVery time........

 

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I would probably be looking for a different trainer. My basic advice to anyone looking for a trainer is to go watch a class or two first, and see what you think of it, before signing up. Greyhounds can sit (Katie is a natural at it), but at the end of the day, it's up to you on whether you want to train that or not. A good down or stand/stay is just as good in many situations.

 

However, a stickler of a CGC tester will fail a dog if they don't sit. Just something to be aware of.

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My blog about helping Katie learn to be a more normal dog: http://katies-journey-philospher77.blogspot.com/

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Find a new trainer. The place I go with my boys is fantastic. Sailor sits a bit, but they never insisted he stay in a sit. While the class worked on sit stays, Sailor worked on down stays. Bu won't sit or stay in a sphinx down so his stays are always stand stays. I've been through 6-7 classes now with my 2 and 5 teachers maybe and not one tried to insist on things that made my dogs uncomfortable. If they had I would have demanded my money back and left. I push my dogs to learn, but causing them physical discomfort is unreasonable. I took a class a few years ago with Bu and the teacher insisted on sit. I had to physically manipulate him. I wasn't rough with him, but he still tried to bite me. Obviously it hurt him and I wish I could erase the whole experience. It was traumatic for both of us. He did have a hip injury while racing that occasionally acts up.

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I agree with finding another trainer if this one doesn't get it. Greyhounds just are not natural sitters, and a trainer that requires it over a down stay is stuck in rote expectations mode. There are many trainers who recognize how perfectly suited greyhounds are for therapy dogs and who have adapted their training to overcome the sit issue. Don't be afraid to interview the trainer ahead of time to find out their feelings about this!

 

On a personal note, my previous partner had a severe traumatic brain injury that wiped out most of her memory, including her memories of our pets. :( If questioned, she would say we didn't have any dogs, nor did she really like them. (Not true, and so sad on so many levels.) As soon as she moved out of ICU and into an acute rehab facility, I made arrangements for the therapy dogs to visit. Our first visitor was a standard poodle that was so sweet, and it was a nice visit. But our next visit was incredible. Not only did two greyhounds come into the room, but the person holding the leashes was one of my own adopters. My partner immediately recognized and bonded with the greyhounds. The joy on her face was priceless. I can't even express the emotions I felt to this day. I think therapy dog people know it's a cool thing to do, but I don't think they know how much of a lifeline it is for some people. My next grey will be specifically selected to be a therapy dog, so that I can return the gift that we received. Don't give up your dream, find a different trainer.

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Shannon, mom to Shae, Jesse James and Linus the Chinese Cresteds,and bridge angels Sydney Sue and Stewart.

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On therapy dogs, Brandi is one and last week met someone who had had a severe stroke a couple of years ago. He had not spoken often, and never coherently until he met Brandi at which time he and I had a detailed discussion about dogs he had known. The staff were stunned - and it confirmed for me that we were doing the right thing.

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Greyhounds can sit, and do it repeatedly. I understand the frustration at your dog not being able to do things as quickly and as repeatedly as the other dogs in the class. But that's okay! Since this is only your second class, remember as your classes go on, you'll be teaching new things each class, and you will spend less time practicing the sit. Each class from now on should be a review of what you have already learned - plus your new thing to work on for that session.

 

If you do not like the trainer, then you can seek another to work with. I have always worked my future Therapy dogs in a regular obedience class and made them learn all the things all the other dogs did. When I took Gus, I did get permission from the trainer to bring a rubber-backed rug for him to do his sits, downs and stays on .... since he only has 1 leg in the back, and we found it to be a bugger for him to try to get up off of the slick gymnasium floor where the classes were held! The first class he was like Bambi on Ice trying to get up off of that floor. I had to brace his one leg with my foot and help him to stand.

 

(Just to let you know .... Gus has mastered the art of getting up off of highly polished floors, so he can take little breaks when we visit the nursing homes.)

 

Your trainer shouldn't make "allowances" for your Greyhound. You may need to work harder with your dog, or work smarter to accomplish the same goals, but you can do it! :) All my greyhounds ended up being the "stars" of their obedience classes by the end. When you do your testing for CgC and for being a Therapy Dog, you have a choice of doing a long down stay -or- a sit stay. Do the down stay, as your dog will be less apt to break it.

 

I'm presently working on training Gus' sister Cricket to join him in Therapy dog activities. My hardest thing for her is going to be her leaving food offered to her by a stranger. She is SOOOO food driven - great for training purposes as she'll turn herself inside out for a cookie. Feel free to PM me if you ever have any questions on training your Therapy Dog. Both Rainy & Gus had their CgC & also certified through Therapy Dogs International. I have been doing Therapy Dog visits and activities since 2007.

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CORY and CRICKET - Solitary Tremble & CASPER - Pj's Mia Farrow
* With CAPT. GUS - Solitary Trigger, RAINY - Peach Rain, PUP - Red Zepher, DOC - CTW Fort Sumpter
and MAX - Shiowa's Silver Maxamillion / Afghan .... all waiting at the bridge

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If you otherwise like the class/trainer, I'd tell the trainer what you're going to do -- "We'll sit a few times, and the rest of the time I'll ask for a down or a stand-stay instead." If the trainer balks at that, I'd find a different class.

 

For our CGCs, the evaluators all wanted to see if the dog *could* sit, but for the long stays and recalls we could do a down-stay if we preferred.

 

FWIW, my first greyhound Batman could do a 5+ minute sit-stay. And he would do it in class. What he wouldn't do is an infinite number of sits while heeling/stopping. He would get to his allowable number of sits for the session and would not sit thereafter. I've had others that would sit but that took awhile to get comfortable enough with classes that they'd sit in public :lol . So I got into the habit of paying attention to my dog and asking for something the dog WOULD do. Sit is overrated.

 

Good luck!

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Search out Therapy Dogs, Incorporated. They are more interested in how well a dog behaves and how well he/she interacts with people. No formal "obedience" is required for their certification. This way, you can work on the sit command, or not, as you see fit.

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Guest mirinaaronsmom

Search out Therapy Dogs, Incorporated. They are more interested in how well a dog behaves and how well he/she interacts with people. No formal "obedience" is required for their certification. This way, you can work on the sit command, or not, as you see fit.

 

I agree with this. All of my hounds have been registered with Therapy Dogs Inc. and I'm very happy with the organization. My first hound, Aaron, did earn his CGC. He was the first dog I ever had in my life so I took him to an obedience class also and had much the same experience as you. At the 3rd class, one of the instructors told me that I may have to resign myself to the fact that my dog would never sit on command. Then they ignored us the rest of the class. I never went back. What really annoyed me was that I was going to the class to learn how to do these things because I had never had any experience or exposure to it before and they were no help at all. I did start doing a lot of reading and talking with friends and learned how to teach on my own. It really gave me a bad taste in my mouth for obedience classes, which is sad since I'm sure there are good trainers out there.

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My response is basically the same as Batmom's: If you otherwise like the trainer, explain what you will do. If she doesn't accept that, find another class.

 

I've taught all my greys to sit, even big Graham. But each learned at a different pace, and there have been tremendous variations in how often and how long they would sit, especially early on. Some were so distracted during the first few weeks of class that they barely knew I was there, so I substituted other behaviours (mostly stand), until they were more comfortable. We almost always caught up by the end of the first course.

 

I think most healthy greys can do 20 sits an hour and/or sit for a few minutes. But I don't think it's necessary or wise to push them to do so before they've got the hang of it. Most of mine have had a stand that's way more stable than most other dogs' sits.

Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13); Greys Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10), Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08)
Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07-7/21)

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The trainer doesn't sound like she knows anything about Greyhounds if she suggested hip dysplasia--

 

But it's an absolute myth that Greyhounds "can't" sit. Of course they can. It won't be pretty, but it's certainly possible.


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Susan,  Hamish,  Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck

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It's not an issue about sitting. It's am issue about the trainer not listening to you and trying to force you to do something with your dog that you are not comfortable with.

 

Rainy has here CGC and never had to sit. Greyhounds are allowed to lay down for that. We lasted exactly 1 session of training, after I interviewed half a dozen people. The conclusion is that they were all morons. Even the one I thought was great! We've done everything ourselves since then.

 

Not hard to train yourself. Research and make it a fun creative game. As long as the dog is having fun there is no right or wrong way to train ;-)

Oh and my girls are not into doing the same thing over and over just because. LOL I can get one or two sits then better move onto something else. They just stand there looking at me like I'm stupid for asking them to do the same thing over and over

------

 

Jessica

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For our CGCs, the evaluators all wanted to see if the dog *could* sit, but for the long stays and recalls we could do a down-stay if we preferred.

EXACTLY. Henry has both CGC and TDI. Truman just passed CGC and is working on his TDI. They can both sit, but neither of them holds it for very long. It just seems uncomfortable for them, so I don't make them stay in the sit for more than 10 seconds. For commands that require extended sits, I just put them in a down-stay, and that's always been fine. This person obviously knows nothing about greyhounds if she's asking about hip dysplasia. I'd get a new trainer.

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Check tail placement when sitting, it should be to the side, not straight back.

Some dogs do not enjoy obedience. I have one who did everything once and went to sleep. She just conked out. The other hound loves to work, but still gets bored on massive repetition. These are NOT labs. We know it, politely mention this to the trainer and enlighten Her/him.

Remember some greys are good racers, love the system-some don't. Go with the flow and don't stress.

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I would never ask Summer to sit for multiple minutes and she readily and happily will sit on command, whether or not a treat is involved (although a treat is obviously much better in HER opinion, LOL). I've never timed how long she will naturally hold a sit because I've never thought of doing so -- I can certainly get 15 seconds -- why would you really want much more? And I had a previous non-grey at an Advanced Obedience level who WOULD sit-stay for many minutes but I wouldn't ask it of her. Both Summer and my previous dog, though, would easily pop into multiple sits in an hour. I'm sure Summer would do 20 and my previous dog would do however many I asked (she would work herself to death to please me). And although Summer will sit on command, I often have her stand for situations that I (and probably your instructor) would teach a non-grey to sit. For instance, when I stop walking like at a stop sign or to collect my mail, I like a certain automatic response -- Summer stands at heel, my non-grey would sit at heel. Would Summer sit for this? Certainly, I could teach her to do so but would she be comfortable and enjoy it? No. So I choose not to do it.

 

I wouldn't be very happy with your instructor as she doesn't seem to be listening to YOU. I mean, really, it's not about HER, it's about YOU and YOUR DOG.

 

I hope I was clear and wasn't just doing a late night babble. :)

 

PS What is the footing in your class? I've never had my dogs in any obedience class where there wasn't those long rubber runners that they use (often laid down in a square with an additional diagonal strip running through the middle -- kind of like a 'Z' in a box).

Edited by OwnedBySummer

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Lisa B.

My beautiful Summer - to her forever home May 1, 2010 Summer

Certified therapy dog team with St. John Ambulance

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Greyhounds can sit. Some sit with legs thrown to the side like doxies. Buck used to sit in the yard all the time with both rear legs out forward - sort of like rocking chair. When I was looking at doing therapy work I had a book (loaned out and never returned) that had a picture of about 20 greyhounds - all sitting.

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Making a dog "sit" to satisfy humans when he doesn't do it naturally and comfortably has always seemed a bit silly to me. Yes, many Greyhounds can sit but in my, limited, experience it seems to be a bit easier for the girls. My 2 girls had natural sits that I just reinforced by clicking. The boys, not so much.

 

I never saw Murphy in anything like a sit. Ever! Murphy certified as a TD without a sit because our TD organization does not require it for greys. Caesar can sort of sit sideways but he's really not comfortable holding it for more than a few seconds. His obedience class trainer was happy with us substituting a down/stay and he aced his obedience class otherwise.

 

As others have said passing the CGC/TD test may be problematic if you get a real stickler for a "sit," but some greyhound-savvy testers are happy with a down/stay these days. As others have said, search out a TD organization that does not require greyhounds to sit. They are definitely some out there. :nod

Gillian
Caesar (Black Caesarfire) and Olly (Oregon) the Galgo

 

Still missing: Nell (spaniel mix) 1982-1997, Boudicca (JRT) 1986- 2004, and the greys P's Catwalk 2001-2008, Murphy Peabody (we failed fostering) 1998-2010 and Pilgrim (Blazing Leia) 2003-2016,

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Guest chardae

You might try some gentle stretching and massage around the hind quarters before class.....I would google "canine massage" for safe techniques.......I train and show my standard poodle in competitive obedience, but I take a somewhat different approach with my greys!. And yes, the sits can be a challenge, I always felt just being able to do one or two with the greyhounds was a success!

 

Your instructor should be listening to you.....if this is at an AKC type dog training club, I would speak to the Training Director and ask if there is anyone more familiar with sighthounds....there may be an advanced student who could help you. I've worked with someone at my club who shows whippets,------ she was a big help. Regardless of who is putting on the class, make sure they understand and respect your training goals.

 

Realistically, unless you're going on to advanced obedience, you shouldn't have to have your grey do so many sits. :nod

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Guest Bean_Scotch

I would probably be looking for a different trainer. My basic advice to anyone looking for a trainer is to go watch a class or two first, and see what you think of it, before signing up. Greyhounds can sit (Katie is a natural at it), but at the end of the day, it's up to you on whether you want to train that or not. A good down or stand/stay is just as good in many situations.

 

However, a stickler of a CGC tester will fail a dog if they don't sit. Just something to be aware of.

 

 

I'm a CGC tester--and Greyhounds are NOT exempt from sitting. Trained correctly, they are fully capable of sitting, and I wouldn't expect anything less. If I'm going to put my name on that dog that they're of sound temperment, listen to their owners, and are a 'good citizen', I want impeccable manners. I will hold a Greyhound to the same standards as I would any breed. I have 5 Greyhounds, all of them are capable of sitting. TDI doesn't require Greyhounds to sit, which seems completely crazy to me.

Search out Therapy Dogs, Incorporated. They are more interested in how well a dog behaves and how well he/she interacts with people. No formal "obedience" is required for their certification. This way, you can work on the sit command, or not, as you see fit.

 

PLEASE be careful of Therapy dogs, Inc. I recently had a client come into my class 'certified' through TDInc, and the dog was EXTREMELY aggressive toward any and all dogs, required a gentle leader to walk, and didn't listen to anything. We're starting in beginner class. Therapy Dogs, Inc. is NOT the same as Therapy Dogs International(TDI). TDI has stricter rules and guidelines, which to me represents a more responsible organization that holds their dogs and handlers to a very high level, as they rightly should.

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I'm a CGC tester--and Greyhounds are NOT exempt from sitting. Trained correctly, they are fully capable of sitting, and I wouldn't expect anything less. If I'm going to put my name on that dog that they're of sound temperment, listen to their owners, and are a 'good citizen', I want impeccable manners. I will hold a Greyhound to the same standards as I would any breed. I have 5 Greyhounds, all of them are capable of sitting.

 

While I can sort of see where you are coming from.... why does a dog need to sit to show that they are of "sound temperament", "listen to their owner", and are a "good citizen"? If I, as an owner, train my dog to do a down (or a stand, or a handstand, or some other controlled act) in all the situations where a different dog would do a sit, how are they any less well-behaved or sound tempered than the dog that sits? That, to me, seems to put the letter of the rules over the intent of the rules. In terms of human behavior, it would be the same as saying someone who has learned to handle their silverware "continental style" is unmannered and uncouth, just because you eat American style. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-mirza-grotts/table-etiquette-two-diffe_b_594518.html

 

I had one greyhound, who I did actually get CGC tested, because she was a perfectly sweet, well-behaved, bomb-proof broodie. Thankfully, that instructor did not require her to sit. At the time I tested, she had LS, and bulging discs at C4/C5, and sitting was (as far as I could tell) actually painful for her. She might also have been in the early stages of osteo, but that is hard to judge since I only know when it was diagnosed, not when it started growing. She would stand patiently by my side, or, if I knew I was going to be a while, would lie down on whatever I put down for her. This was a dog who let a vet tech draw her leg with a broken femur into a full extension and only indicated her discomfort by raising her head off the ground, and who tolerated any sort of foolishness from other dogs. She was the kind of dog who makes a perfect poster child for why greyhounds make awesome pets, and who was always being praised by the people who met her for how well-behaved she was. She was so well-behaved, the vets I took her to gave her special dispensation to hang out uncaged on days that she had to spend the day there for testing because she would just settle on her bed and stay there. To think that she might have been disqualified for a "Canine Good Citizen" award because I didn't require her to sit seems to me to be absurd. My spook Katie, on the other hand, will sit, and I could probably get her through the CGC testing, if I really wanted to and made it a goal. But I know, in my heart, that she is not the well-rounded, poster child dog that Trinkett was, and that she would find it an incredibly stressful situation. So I don't try and make her do it, just so that I can say that she CGC certified, when I know that she isn't really a CGC dog, since there is always a chance that something is going to spook her.

 

I guess (now that I have written all this out) I'd rather see dogs that were actually well-behaved and of sound temperament getting the CGC, even if they don't meet the letter of the test, as opposed to simply saying that any dog that passes the letter of the tests is of good temper and well-behaved.

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My blog about helping Katie learn to be a more normal dog: http://katies-journey-philospher77.blogspot.com/

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Guest Giselle

Of course, the CGC has its flaws. Many well-behaved dogs cannot pass the CGC for legitimate physical or psychological reasons beyond their control.

 

The CGC is just one way to demonstrate a dog's good behavior. It is not the only way. The AKC has done a darn good job promoting themselves, but let's remember that the AKC has their own agenda and the CGC is not the be-all-end-all for dog behavior AT ALL.

 

Do I personally believe that all dogs can sit? Barring physical trauma, I sure do. But I also understand that Sit is uncomfortable for some dogs. My greyhound was an expert automatic Sitter because I trained her to be, but she never chose to Sit naturally because, obviously, it was not comfortable. Sit is important to train, yes, but I believe it's one of those behaviors you can substitute in a formal setting if the dog clearly finds Sit uncomfortable.

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