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Mork - Advice On Assessing Pain


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Guest MnMDogs

I need help. Mork is 13 and 8 months (not that I'm counting), and is overall very happy, from what we can tell.

 

He's got LS and well, he's geriatric. We treat with gabapentin 300 mg 3x/day, metacam 7.5 mg QD and adequan injections (every 2 weeks and becoming more frequent). He's also a corn dog, so this dog has known pain all his life to some extent or another

 

About 2 months ago he stopped wanted to go for walks, which he recently had started enjoying again after adding metacam in December. But he still loves car rides and will walk if we drive somewhere. He's very unsteady and fell about a month ago on our patio. We were home to help him up, and he scraped himself up, but nothing awful.

 

Currently he's having more frequent fecal incontinence - almost daily. Up until a couple months ago, the adequan injections seem to help with that, and we could go 2 weeks between injections without an accident. Additionally, he's had some pee accidents in the house. I say accidents, but one happened while I was home and the door to the outside was open! He got up from our bedroom, walked into my office across the house and peed!

 

My questions, does fecal incontinence = pain or simply lack of feeling the urge? What about the pee? Someone suggested UTI, but he got up to walk to my office which is as far as the back door would have been.

 

I've never had a dog just get old, I don't know how to assess his pain (since he has always had some), and I don't want him to be in pain, or to hurt himself if he's alone. Help??? What are your thoughts on incontinence = pain? Is there any correlation? I'll give him injections every other day if it will help, I just want to do the right thing by him.

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Incontinence is more likely either not feeling the urge, or feeling the urge too late to get up and get outside to deal with it.

 

Hugs to you and your sweetest boy.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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I don't have DIRECT experience, but, incontinence to me is not a sign of pain in Mork's situation. LS makes it hard for them to feel the need until it's immediate.

 

Because of her stroke, Miss Carrie sometimes doesn't wake up soon enough to ask to go out to poop in the middle of the night. So I have the big pee pads-one in the hallway and one in the living room. She will get up and poop and go back to bed. For me that's life with an old dog. It's easily picked up, no harm no foul. ;)

 

It's not all the time, but, when there's a need, we're prepared.

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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Guest MnMDogs

Ok thank you Jey, and Kristin! That's what thought, and that's what I was hoping. But having lost Mara at 8 and Matty at 9, I have no idea what to expect with a geriatric hound! My vet and I talked about signs to look for to indicate decline - but that wasn't one of them. Though the increased frequency did make me worry.

 

I really am concerned with him being so unsteady, but if there is one thing he is, it's very tough and very resilient (I guess that's 2 things).

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The pee incident is a little confusing...might just be isolated. Was the weather crummy? Has he fallen outside?

 

After Carrie had her stroke with her old family, she was scared to go out to potty because she couldn't do the stairs and had fallen, so she started peeing in the house just really out of fear of going outside.

 

She's fine at my house though-no stairs!

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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Guest MnMDogs

Oooh, pee pads! I missed that at first - that's a really good idea. Are those the chucks that would be used in a hospital? I know you posted a while back about what to use, but I'm not sure what the decision was.

 

And believe me, I would much rather pick up poop the he left in the house rather than the poop he sometimes steps in and tracks all over.

 

You know, I don't get the pee incident - I think he is just starting to get more confused. After 5 years with his PRA (diagnosed), I think he's just about mostly blind so that may add to the strange behavior. I may take in the urine to test just for the hell of it (hey, what's money?).

 

Oh and no stairs in our house.

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If he hasn't had pee accidents before, that is a good idea (checking for UTI). I will say, tho, when our whippet got very tottery in his old age, he would wake up in the morning or from a long nap, and he Had To Go Right Now. Same with right after dinner altho it did help to take him out for a little toddle around just before his dinnertime.

 

Your boy is lucky to have you.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Guest MnMDogs

Aww, thank you, Jey. We've been through a lot together, and I never thought we'd make it almost 9 years together... Good advice about taking him out for a little "toddle" (I love that word). I'm going to make a point of also taking him for more drives to the park (about a quarter mile away, but he will walk around the park if I drive him!) to give him a chance to empty out too to see if that helps

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Sam (13 years and two weeks, but who's counting) dribbles a little pee in his sleep sometimes. Occasionally, I'll put a belly band with a pad on him overnight. Usually, he wakes up with a dry pad in a belly band that's rolled around to his back. :)

 

Is there something Mork does frequently that he's not supposed to do? At my house, Sam goes nose down in the trashcan. Every. Single. Day. Sometimes I eat Lean Pockets--those things that microwave inside a paperboard sleeve; Sam fetches the sleeve out of the trashcan and brings it to his bed in the living room, where he lies and licks until the thing is soggy. He also picks up empty yogurt containers to lick. This morning, I finished my yogurt and set the container down next to where I was working. Sam came and leaned over my shoulder (I'm in the floor, working from my laptop) until I gave him the container. He licked it clean and then went to sleep with it. When he stops going after the trash, I'll know he's ready to go.

 

8814018816_27f171b8c2.jpg

 

But like you, I worry about Sam when I'm not home. These days, I'm working from home (freelance proofreader and editor), so I can be home with him much of the time. I try to avoid events that will take me away from home for more than four hours. I know: he could fall and hurt himself 30 seconds after I walk out the door. But for the first several hours after I go out, I think he just sleeps, so I think he's safer for the first few hours than he would be for the last hours of a long absence, when his pain meds would wear off and he'd be awake and wandering around. The other dog is crated--unless she's with me--so I don't have to worry that she'll harm him if he gets in trouble. Sam hates car rides and isn't good on his feet for a long time, so I don't take him to meet and greets when I take Silver.

 

He's been panting a lot lately, and I've wondered if that was from pain. I've decided it isn't though. He lies two feet in front of the box fan and pants until he falls asleep. Later on, when it's about time for his pain meds, he's not panting or showing signs of pain. And, as I said, he's in the trash can every day, so I think we're okay for a while and he's just less able to deal with heat now than he used to be.

15060353021_97558ce7da.jpg
Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and
Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come.

Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016),
darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006)

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Guest MnMDogs

Sam and Mork would have made quite a pair in their younger years!! Mork no longer goes in the trash regularly, but he scopes it out daily (along with the counters for wayward food that may find is way into his mouth). I still catch him play owing and slapping the ground in the pack when he goes out to do his business. He still greets up when we get home...

 

So I think he is ok, the more frequent poops are ok, I'm ok with that. Thanks for your input, that's kind of what I was thinking, I just don't want to be wrong!!!

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Wink has fallen several times. (14 in July) We have runners all over the house so she doesn't slip. She will occasionally fall outside when her back legs go to wonky on her. She can still get herself up, but it takes a tremendous amount of effort and really upsets her. :( It's so hard to see them get old, but she is still really happy and not in any pain. We are fortunate that she still has control of her bladder and bowels and she looks wonderful.

Please give Morkie a big hug and kiss for me.

CollageSnap

<p>Finn, Wink, Birdie, Snap and SmokeyJG Quicknfast 7/25/99-5/16/08, JG Quickwink 7/25/99-9/22/13, Iruska SweetDuv 7/19/03-11/9/16, Delbar 6/11/11 and Catahoula Smokey
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Guest MnMDogs

Liz, I was thinking about you and Winkie...so thank you for weighing in. We also have runners all over (mainly for his corns), and the beast still will hobble on into the kitchen (where there are no runners) at dinner to make sure he's not missing anything. I'm on the east coast until tomorrow, and Ryan let me know that he came home to poop at lunch and after work.

 

Sigh, we can handle the inconvenience, but it's just making him seem suddenly so much older than even a month ago. I'll be sure to give him love from you. Please do the same for Wink from me :)

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I think you have your answer, but I just want to add that I agree. We've had lots of poopal issues around here during the last year or so. When you're 13+, poop happens. Not always where the humans want, and probably not due to pain. Sometimes pee happens too, but so far there have been fewer of those problems here (not counting incontinence, which we have as well).

 

Just part of living with old dogs, especially old dogs with weak back ends. :)

Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13); Greys Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10), Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08)
Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07-7/21)

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Guest MnMDogs

Ahh thank you, and I love the stories. So please keep them coming if you have them... This really did make me feel a lot better, and I appreciate all of the input. "Poopal issues". Hehe, that gave me a giggle.

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When my whippet hit 14 or so, he began to develop cognitive issues and would sundown. I found at those times, he would get confused and would do things he normally wouldn't do (pee in house). I started him on Cholodin, which did help. I also had timers in the house to have the lights turn on before it began to get dark to help avoid the disorientation he got when shadows appeared. In his case, both things helped.

 

Hugs to your sweet boy!

gallery_16605_3214_8259.jpg

Cindy with Miss Fancypants
Dante (Dg's Boyd), Zoe (In a While), Brady (Devilish Effect), Goose (BG Shotgun), Maverick (BG ShoMe) and Indy (BYB whippet) forever in my heart
The flame that burns the brightest, burns the fastest and leaves the biggest shadow

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Our first girl lived to be 14 and towards the end, her rear was very

weak. She was on pred. for her IBD and had been for years so that added

to her muscle wasting too.

She was a proud old girl though, and a fighter. She was on a home cooked

diet and was eating 15 cups a day and that meant a LOT of poopin'.

This might sound a little funny to some, but we actually had to hold a paper

plate underneath her while she ate because more times than not, that poop just

couldn't stay in there.

It's hard when they start to age, but we just do the best we can to help them and

love them all the more for trying so hard to stay with us.

Sweet wishes for your boy. I know how difficult it can be.

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If you're going to have his pee checked, take in a poop sample too and have them run a fecal, just to cover all bases. :) If it's negative, you'll know it's likely from LS, but, on the off chance he needs a round of Panacur or something, it might be treatable for the time being.

 

These are the pee pads I have:

1 Each Single Invacare Reusable Bedpads 34" x 52" Capacity Absorbs up to 1800cc Invacare Supply Group 13452

http://amzn.com/B000RDRRVK

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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Guest MnMDogs

Thanks again everyone for the advice and stories... and thank you for the link Kristin - I need those... I just need to figure out the most frequently pooped in spots as they seem to sneak out pretty much everywhere!!!

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When I read about Mork it makes me think Finn would be in that same state had he lived that long. You will know when Mork starts to get sad, and when it is time to let him go. :heart

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<p>Finn, Wink, Birdie, Snap and SmokeyJG Quicknfast 7/25/99-5/16/08, JG Quickwink 7/25/99-9/22/13, Iruska SweetDuv 7/19/03-11/9/16, Delbar 6/11/11 and Catahoula Smokey
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Guest MnMDogs

Liz, again you must be reading my mind...I thought the very same thing. I got home about an hour ago, and he's his normal self. He got up and went out to poop and his now relaxing (until we go to the vet)... So he knows he needs to go if he's awakened, and I think I'll just have to do that when I'm home. It's hard since although I work from home, I do travel quite a bit.

 

But he's definitely happy and being his same Morky self from what I can see. If I keep his corn (he's down to just one bad one!) and nails dremeled that definitely helps his mobility.

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Guest MnMDogs

Well, I gave him his first IM injection of adequan today! I'm hoping that I can increase the frequency and decrease his poop accidents! I love my old bub

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It sounds like in spite of the small issues he has, he's still very much a happy guy, doing the things he likes to do, like checking out the kitchen :)

 

Miss Carrie also gets around much better if I keep her toenails as short as I can :) Thankfully she's got no problem letting me Dremel her nails. Hopefully Mork is somewhat amenable. That makes things easier :)

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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