Jump to content

Not: Osteo In A Toe - Yeay!


Recommended Posts

Xan, this was Gracie's right rear toe:

021.jpg

For nearly a year no vet could figure out what was wrong with it. She didn't limp. She didn't lick it much. It looked nasty. Assorted antibiotics didn't help. Thought it might be SLO. Xray was inconclusive. Finally the right vet said since it's getting uglier, let's just remove that toe.

The pathology report revealed a very rare but benign tumor of the nail bed. Somewhere I've got the name written down if you need it.

I hope your path report comes back with something easily treatable too.

 

Freshy (Droopys Fresh), NoAh the podenco orito, Rita the podenco maneta, Howie the portuguese podengo maneto
Angels:  Lila, the podenco, Mr X aka Denali, Lulu the podenco andaluz, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella),  Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

tiny hada siggy.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 108
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Thanks, Ducky. So glad for you and Gracie!! :D Brilly's toe doesn't show any surface lesions or weirdness, beyond the hard swelling at that joint. Not conclusive of anything, I don't suppose, just an observed difference.

 

Got the consult back from OSU:

 

Dear Christine - thank you for the consult about Brilly. Although it's hard to tell from the one radiograph view, this lesion is not completely consistent with OSA as it appears to cross the joint. We can see OSA in ANY bone in the body, though a digit is not typical. I would want to do an aspirate (rather than biopsy) before following through with more aggressive therapy, to ensure we're dealing with OSA. Also, 6 weeks is a long time for this dog to be fairly 'stable' in its limping - i.e., OSA tends to progress much faster. Make sure you take chest rads, and, I'd take rads up the rest of the limb and shoulder, too. If it's not OSA on aspirate, and all the other rads/bloodwork are normal, I'd consider digit amputation (and then send it in for histopath). A digit amp is not so difficult for even an old dog to recover from, and if you need to readdress with full leg amputation, that can be addressed later. Just my 2 cents - you know the patient and owner best.
Let me know what happens, I'm always interested in following cases that don't have a typical presentation.
Christine

 

Anyone know the reason for aspirate rather than biopsy? I'll have to look up the difference. *edit after searching* Hm. That's what I thought! Aspiration is the method; biopsy is the point (collect and examine). Well, okay. The point was she suggests "aspiration biopsy: biopsy in which tissue is obtained by application of suction through a needle attached to a syringe."

 

It's encouraging, I guess, that it doesn't seem like OSA from various perspectives. And that it's relatively slow, whatever it is. So, mystery not yet solved, but slightly less worried about OSA, anyway! :P

 

One thing I noticed in the forwarded email was that my vet had described his "Left prescapular lymph node slightly increased in size." She didn't mention that to me at our appointment. :unsure:

 

My vet is getting an estimate ready, and we'll proceed from there.

Edited by Xan

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, OSA is fast. Treasure went from normal X-rays to osteo tumour on her leg within 3.5 weeks. So I guess this is good news.

siggy_robinw_tbqslg.jpg
Xavi the galgo and Peter the cat. Missing Iker the galgo ?-Feb.9/19, Treasure (USS Treasure) April 12/01-May 6/13, Phoenix (Hallo Top Son) Dec.14/99-June 4/11 and Loca (Reko Swahili) Oct.9/95 - June 1/09, Allen the boss cat, died late November, 2021, age 19.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, OSA is fast. Treasure went from normal X-rays to osteo tumour on her leg within 3.5 weeks. So I guess this is good news.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Robin}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} :(

 

The good news strikes as randomly as bad news, doesn't it?

 

Well, we'll just have to test and see. I don't want him on pain meds for too-too long, so some resolution will be good.

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dislike "speed of progression" as an indicator of osteo. Berkeley had a limp off and on for three months prior to diagnosis, with no real progression in severity.

 

I hope the biopsy comes back with some good news.

With Buster Bloof (UCME Razorback 89B-51359) and Gingersnap Ginny (92D-59450). Missing Pepper, Berkeley, Ivy, Princess and Bauer at the bridge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aspirate probably recommended because there isn't much meat on a toe, to get a biopsy out of. Keeping all fingers crossed!

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BauersMom, hm. Yeah, I see your point. Everyone is an individual, huh?

 

Batmom, so you're thinking that "biopsy" was referring to taking a chunk, rather than just sticking a needle in and pulling some stuff out? I'm sure Brilly would prefer the needle approach! :P

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aspiration biopsy may or may not show anything. The trick with it is to actually stick the fine needle into the proper spot at the proper depth to obtain a specimen containing the proper cells. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The only way to know "for sure" is to take the whole toe and send it in for histopathology.

 

Dr Kellog (Christine) is one of the new doctors at OSU and is *VERY* good! Someone on GT had her as a regular vet for a while before she moved to the GHWP and really liked her.

 

Try and stay ahead of Brilly's pain. It's easier than trying to catch up with it later. You might talk to your vet about adding in gabapentin to see if that helps him any. It's relatively cheap and is good when used in conjunction with nsaids or tramadol.

Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

52592535884_69debcd9b4.jpgsiggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The needle thing is aspiration (FNA fine needle aspirate). Biopsy is taking a chunk.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aspiration biopsy may or may not show anything. The trick with it is to actually stick the fine needle into the proper spot at the proper depth to obtain a specimen containing the proper cells. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The only way to know "for sure" is to take the whole toe and send it in for histopathology.

 

Dr Kellog (Christine) is one of the new doctors at OSU and is *VERY* good! Someone on GT had her as a regular vet for a while before she moved to the GHWP and really liked her.

 

Try and stay ahead of Brilly's pain. It's easier than trying to catch up with it later. You might talk to your vet about adding in gabapentin to see if that helps him any. It's relatively cheap and is good when used in conjunction with nsaids or tramadol.

Oh, good point about the needle biopsy. They'd have to have some good imaging either going on during the operation or maybe several views beforehand, to triangulate well. The toe is probably going. I can't actually think of a reason not to take it off, unless this miraculously turns out to be a bruise. Yeah. Not too likely.

 

I'm glad Dr Kellog was available to look at this, then! I do think I've read her name here before.

 

As for his pain. Question: Should I be expecting or hoping to see him put full weight on that toe? If it's functionally impaired (doesn't bend properly, say), wouldn't total pain-removal be ... I don't know ... either impossible or not a good idea? Seems like he'd have to be one numb pup to not feel that. Or not care about feeling it, which is how I recall being on pain medication, myself. I do not want him to feel any more pain than we can avoid, but it seems like there might have to be a delicate balance between too numb to walk or enjoy life, and too much pain to walk or enjoy life.

 

We might even have some gabapentin ... No, I think it's used up. I'll ask about it. Thanks.

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gabapentin will interfere with pain signals to the brain. It's not going to numb the toe--or the foot. And it hasn't made Sam noticeably high. A large dose at the start is more likely to make a dog wobbly than loopy. Start slowly, and expect it to take 48 hours to get up to full effect.

 

Also, gabapentin is carried by people-pharmacies, possibly at a price better than your vet's. It's available in 100mg capsules, which gives more flexibility in dosing than, say, a 300mg hard tablet, but you may need to ask your vet to write the prescription that way. (Vets seem inclined to prescribe a single 300mg tablet a day--not effective since it will wear off long before the 24 hours is up.) OSU supports the idea of smaller doses more often. Also, more gabapentin at a single dose doesn't make the pain-relief last longer. Sam takes it for pain from spinal arthritis, and he gets his pills three or four times a day. (The fourth time depends on whether he wakes up about midnight wanting another meal and pills. These days, he seems to be comfortable enough to sleep through the night. Knock wood.)

15060353021_97558ce7da.jpg
Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and
Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come.

Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016),
darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah! Okay. Yes, I thought gabapentin took a neurologic approach to pain, rather than anti-inflammatory. We've had to use it for Katie's neck pain a couple times. Okay, smaller doses, more frequently. Good to know.

 

:)

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, we have an appointment on Thursday, and here's our plan:

  • x-rays up the leg and of the chest: if no further tumors are found, proceed with
  • digit amputation - send to histopathology
  • dental

I'll be a mess that day, of course. He's on pheno for seizures, he has unilateral laryngeal paralyses which was inflamed by the intubation during his last dental, he's a little weak in the rear and here we go taking off a front toe. Poor ol' dude!

 

Well, I'll keep you updated! Thanks for all the support, info, and kind thoughts. :)

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it makes you feel better, the hind leg that was left after Dude's amp was the one with only three toes, and he did just fine! Good thoughts for you and yours!

Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

52592535884_69debcd9b4.jpgsiggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sending lots and lots of good thoughts for your sweet boy.

Cynthia, & Cristiano, galgo
Always in my heart: Frostman
Newdawn Frost, Keno Jet Action & Chloe (NGA racing name unknown), Irys (galgo), Hannah (weim), Cruz (galgo), & Carly CW Your Charming

Princess http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?i=1018857

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life, gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are." -- Unknown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, your poor guy - he's got a lot going on, doesn't he?

 

Hoping for all the best results on Thursday!!

He does, kinda, huh? :P

Thanks!

 

If it makes you feel better, the hind leg that was left after Dude's amp was the one with only three toes, and he did just fine! Good thoughts for you and yours!

Yeah, that does help. :) It's good to hear all these "eh, it's just one toe!" stories. :) Thanks for all the good thoughts!!

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's at the vet today. Haven't heard anything, which I'm going to assume means they took the x-rays, didn't find any other problems, and went ahead with the amputation and a dental. :goodluck:goodluck:goodluck:goodluck

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:goodluck :goodluck :goodluck

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...