Not Thyroid?

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

Hi all. I hope someone will have experience in this area and be able to tell me if we should worry about Rocky's behavior. We have had him for a year. He came to us on Soloxine (.3 mg). He came from Hemopet and the thyroid decision was made by Jean Dodds, who I hear is a Greyhound thyroid expert. Anyway, Rocky has always been VERY enthusiastic; close to manic. Wired. Lately he has been seeking the cool tile and panting a lot. We live on the coast and it isn't remotely hot yet. My first thought was that there must be something wrong with his thyroid but then I read about hypothroidism and the symptoms are the opposite of Rocky's behavior. I have him scheduled for a thyroid test tomorrow but now I am wondering if there is any value in that.

 

I am hoping someone can comment on the manic behavior, panting and seeking cool tiles. Does this sound like anything is wrong? Should we go ahead with the thyroid test? Not sure what to do. If Rocky is fine than that will be a relief. If there might be something wrong with him I want to address it. He just turned 7.

 

Thanks for any info!

[MaryJane]

What you have described could fit a dog that is getting too much thyroid medicine. What tests is Rocky scheduled for tomorrow?

[Batmom]

Ditto MaryJane.

 

Jean Dodds is not a greyhound thyroid expert.

[MaryJane]

 

Jean Dodds is not a greyhound thyroid expert.

 

I'm glad someone else mentioned this. I've been told by a few veterinary professionals that I respect that Dr Dodd is "on the fringes" meaning that other medical professionals sometimes have a hard time understanding her results and subsequent plan of action. I had planned at one point of re-doing Lucy's (my seizure dog) thyroid tests and her lab is pretty cheap, in some cases 1/3 as much as other labs but, I've subsequently decided that when her tests get re-done, it will be at a lab that has a high standing among medical professionals.

[tbhounds]

Good for you MaryJane :-)-enough said. One thing I will mention to the op--when you retest your hounds thyroid value please don't just run a T4--also run a cTSH. Quite often even with supplementation the T4 doesn't budge.

[greysmom]

Classic signs of too much thyroid. One of mine came to me on thyroid the same way - hyper, behavior problems (which he had been bounced for once), unable to concentrate on simple commands, unable to gain weight, always running a mild temp (compared to a "normal" temperature dog). In talking to our vet, we did not run a thyroid test, we simply discontinued his supplement. Within a week, all his "symptoms" resolved. We were all much happier.

 

It won't do much good to run another test except to show what level his thyroid readings are at now - which may or may not be a "high" reading. You would need to have test results from before he was started on thyroid in the first place to have this test mean anything. I would discuss discontinuing his meds with your vet, and then, if you're curious and some low-thyroid symptoms occur, re-testing in 6 months.

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

I don't know how to reply to individual posts so I will do this here. I just asked for "thyroid tests" but given the reply to do a T4 and a cTSH we are going to ask for that. We do have the test results from when he was at Hemopet so we have something to compare his results to. We are going on vacation next week and when we get back we are going to start to wean him off the meds. I feel so bad that for a year he has been running on "high gear" when he probably didn't have to. That can't be good for his organs.

 

Thank you to everyone for your responses. I ao appreciate having access to Greyhound owners who are willing to share their knowledge and experience. I will let you know how it progresses.

 

Chris & Mike, Rocky and Mercy's parents

[Batmom]

If you have the original values from before he was put on meds, they should show a low or zero T4, a high (well above normal range) TSH, and there should be some notes in his chart about symptoms. If you don't have those -- or if they didn't do them -- then weaning him off, waiting the 6 weeks, and retesting at a reputable lab that can do the fT4 and TSH is probably the best idea.

 

He's a lucky pup to have such caring and observant people in his life.

 

Good luck!

[Hubcitypam]

Ditto MaryJane.

 

Jean Dodds is not a greyhound thyroid expert.

Amen to that.

 

All my vets have either sighed and/or rolled eyes at the mention of her name. My VCA doctor politely said "well....you know she is QUITE the controversal figure in the vet medicine world".

[tbhounds]

Amen to that.

 

All my vets have either sighed and/or rolled eyes at the mention of her name. My VCA doctor politely said "well....you know she is QUITE the controversal figure in the vet medicine world".

Pam-your vet was polite-I won't repeat here what I have heard. :-)

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

Darn it all! Why was she represented to us as an expert? We would have weaned him off the meds months and months ago. Well, we are going to do that now. We leave on vacation next week and don't want our pet sitter to have to deal with anything unusual (plus we want to keep a very close eye on him ourselves and see if anything negative happens) so as soon as we get back we are cutting down to one a day for a month and then half of one a day for a month and then nada. The pace of weaning him off was suggested by our vet. I will be very curious to see how he behaves after getting him off the meds. He and Mercy are both are such great dogs. We are so lucky to have them in our lives.

[tbhounds]

Yes, wean him off the medication slowly, however, I would do it with a different approach. I'm sure you are giving the Soloxine twice a day so I would cut each dose down by half for a weekish then, go to once a day....

Just for the record-Dr Couto recommends reducing the Soloxine down slowly too rather than just stop cold turkey.

[Batmom]

2 weeks should be plenty to wean off. Some genuine experts say that isn't necessary -- probably because the body has a reservoir even when the hormone comes from meds rather than natural production -- but it sure doesn't hurt.

[JJNg]

Darn it all! Why was she represented to us as an expert?

 

Probably because many pet owners, breeders, and adoption people consider her an expert. Most vets, including internal medicine and endocrinology specialists, don't agree and feel that her work on thyroid issues is far from mainstream and not supported by any published, peer-reviewed studies. I also find it interesting that Dr. Dodds seems to direct her advertising and articles toward the pet-owning public, and not the veterinary community.

[greyhead]

Some people have had a grey's life saved by Dr. Dodd's clinical experience with thyroid. On the other hand, we just had a beloved dog killed by a board-certified internist who went by the book (non-thyroidal illness). My point: It's not all about being mainstream and peer-reviewed. I don't mean to disrespect anyone, but I can't bite my tongue while Dodds is basically characterized as a worthless charlatan of no expertise. I don't think that's fair. Sometimes "the book" is a good way to go, and sometimes it's not. That is so because there are generalities that are mostly true, and then there are individual dogs for whom those generalities are flat-out wrong.

 

I'm not going to get into an argument about this at this time. Since losing Spencer, I'm barely breathing, and I just don't have the energy to say very much about anything at all. But I couldn't stand by and not say at least this much.

 

Reminds me of a quote I'm going to add to my siggie when I relocate the author: "An expert isn't someone who knows all the rules. An expert is someone who knows when to break them."

[Batmom]

And then there are all those dogs who have been harmed, sometimes grievously, by owners following Dodds' advice. In my personal circle alone, the number of those dogs is not small. Everyone is wrong sometimes. Few individual practitioners whom one would wish to consult are misguided so often.

 

I'm sorry for your loss, Mary.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Batmom

[JJNg]

I certainly agree that it's not all about being mainstream and peer-reviewed. I'm probably more open to alternative options than many other vets are, and the longer I'm in practice, the more I realize that traditional medicine doesn't have all the answers. But especially if an alternative theory is contradictory to information and procedures that have been well-established and well-understood (such as diagnosis and treatment of hypothyroidism), I'd like to see some scientific proof and controlled studies to support it.

 

Even though Dr. Dodd's ideas aren't mainstream, I'm be open to the possibility that she's discovered new information, or made a cutting edge breakthrough, but I just haven't seen any convincing evidence of this. If her "novel technology" in thyroid testing and her unique references ranges and interpretation of the results are truly superior to traditional thyroid diagnostics, where are the studies that support this? When it comes to information like this, I feel that there needs to be some scientific backing to explain where the technology and data is coming from. Without that, I'm going to stick with the traditional testing and interpretation.

[GreyTzu]

Let's get this thread back on track with positive suggestions and support for this dog and owner.

[PatricksMom]

If people are any indication (maybe they are, maybe they're not) be prepared for some short term difficulty weaning him off it, but it sounds to me like you're doing the right thing there. Also keep in mind that appropriate thyroid levels for a greyhound may be somewhat different than for dogs in general and make sure your vet knows that (this can also be true of kidney levels and heart size).

 

Once you stabilize your guy, I wouldn't treat for levels below normal in a greyhound unless you're seeing actual symptoms of a low thyroid (and bald tush doesn't count). When you get your results back, feel free to post them and see what folks think in the context of a greyhound--I'm not the best one to help but other people here are very experienced and we're fortunate enough to have Jennifer and other veterinary professionals here a well.

[greysmom]

Yes. When we finally got Dude off the thyroid supplements, his test came back at .20 - which is incredibly low for a "normal" dog, but apparently normal for Dude. He had NO low thyroid symptoms and did so much better off it.

 

In contrast, we have just begun a trial of supplements for my spook, even though her readings were clinically normal, to see if it will help with her anxiety. It appears to be helping. So I guess the take-away here is to mainly listen to your dog and their physical needs rather than rely solely on test results.

[duncan41]

Why not just send to Michigan State Vet Lab as a follow up for FT4 by ED and TSH (# 20013 - Canine Therapeutic Monitoring Profile) with a request for a written review by the endocrinologist (#20020) with the dogs medical history and current "symptoms"?

 

I received the same recommendation from Dr. Dodds and MSU on a dog that may have been hypothyroid or euthyroid sick syndrome.

[Batmom]

The dog is already on thyroid supplementation, and OP is concerned he may not need to be. Testing him now would just show how he's processing the meds and wouldn't answer the "does he need it?" question.

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

Responding to this and that from above---luckily, our vet had a greyhound so she knows that greyhound readings are different. Rocky is the most hairy greyhound we have ever seen. Between that and his behavior we call him a Lab in a greyhound suit. We miss the cute bare butt!

 

I appreciate all comments very much. We will wean him carefully and watch him closely.

 

I was hugging Rocky last night and wondering what our boy will be like without the thyroid jolt. He is such a bull in a china shop now.

 

Thankyou again and I will keep you up-to-date.