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Hemangiosarcoma


Guest Nick
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Hi. My vet tells me she's concerned that my 11.5-year-old grey might have hemangiosarcoma, and she wants to do a punch biopsy. She found a slightly raised area around 2x4 inches on his inner thigh near his groin. It's got a kind of spongy feeling, but there is no discoloration like you see on Google images. She aspirated it twice and both times the pathologist found nothing, but during second aspiration the area puffed up and bleed a lot. The swelling disappeared quickly, and the bleeding stopped after pressure was applied for 5 minutes or so.

 

In addition to his age, the other clue the vet identifies is his weight loss - 2.5 lbs since his previous weigh-in only 4 weeks before. However, this coincides with a change from Orijen grain free and Eukanuba large breed food to low-residue IAMs to deal with ridiculously frequent and smelly gas. It worked, and also his stool is less smelly and a little firmer. Also he puts out about 1/3 less stool with this new food. His appetite, energy and personality seem the same as always. This makes me think the weight loss is not related to cancer, but is instead related to how his body has adjusted to the food change. (Please see my other post about his diet.)

 

Given the above, is hemangiosarcoma a real possibility? Also, what's the point of a biopsy, considering (1) there's no cure for hemangiosarcoma, and (2) at best surgery/treatment can extend a dog's life only 3-6 months? I care for him too much to put him through 3-6 months of pain and trauma. He really hates going to the vet, much less being poked, prodded and stuck with needles, and the last time he was sedated for a teeth cleaning was a terrible experience for him.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Nick
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If it's just a small area, it could likely be removed (the spot it's in might not be the easiest place to get good margins, but, it is probably still doable).

 

My friend's girl had hemangiosarcoma in her spleen (a 7 POUND tumor). She had her spleen removed almost a year and a half ago and she's just fine. If it actually IS hemangiosarcoma, it can be removed. While there is no real "cure" (it COULD come back), many dogs have things like that removed and never see a recurrence.

Edited by krissn333

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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I'm not a veterinarian, but if my vet were that concerned about a growth, I'd move forward with the vet's recommendation.

 

We have an 11.5 year old Greyhound who was diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma 2.5 years ago. Post surgery, she's still alive and doing well. The tricky location of her mass (much lower leg) prevented clear margins, so it's still brewing in her body, but much less so than without surgery.

 

Side note: We have 3 excessive bleeder Greyhounds. If your vet is not aware of using Aminocaproic Acid for certain Greyhounds undergoing surgery, please share a couple of articles from Ohio State University - Greyhound Health and Wellness Website: See article below, and find an additional article in OSU's index: Why Greyhounds Bleed.

 

Aminocaproic Acid dose is listed under "Treatment and Prognosis" in the following article.

https://greyhound.osu.edu/resources/freeresources/bonecancer/index.cfm

 

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Can you post a picture? From the side, and maybe one from behind? Is it possible he has a simple dropped (partially or completely torn) muscle rather than any kind of tumor at all? That would account for the pathologist finding nothing on aspiration ....

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Take a look at message #20 on this page on Greytalk. I think it's what Batmom is talking about--a "dropped gracilis muscle." If you Google that phrase, you can find another image from another dog.

Edited by KF_in_Georgia

15060353021_97558ce7da.jpg
Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and
Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come.

Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016),
darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006)

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Batmom: Smart thought for them to consider! :)

 

Here's another thread with photos:

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/294030-gracilis-thigh-muscle-question/?hl=%2Bgracilis+%2Bmuscle

 

ETA: Here's a photo of my hound's old gracilis muscle injury

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/gallery/album/3436-3greytjoys/

Edited by 3greytjoys
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Thanks for providing a link to some pics, KF_in_Georgia and 3greytjoys.

 

Can happen with other muscles too. May even be an old injury that was not noticed when dog was younger and more heavily muscled.

Edited by Batmom

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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I vote that you should call your vet up and ask those questions. They may tell you that it would be easy to remove, or that if your not going to remove it than that's okay, but let's do XYZ or even something else.

 

I'm constantly asking the vet about things. LOL from why does my dog have a 14 inch single hair growing out of her side? LOL To do we really need to take Rainy for an echo? Will the results change her daily management of the heart murmur?

 

I haven't encountered anything major with the girls yet, but I always lean towards the side of no major surgery, etc. I try to keep them happy and healthy as long as a can. They are my babies! My job is to keep them out of physical and mental pain, spoiled them an impossible amount, and have the courage to let them go when is time. It sounds crass but there are so many more homeless animals or there I will never have an empty space here long. Now whether I can put that logic into play when the time comes will remain to be seen... ;-)

 

But I am always asking the vet a ton of questions about my options and the possible ramifications of all my options when dealing with any issue. Luckily our vet seems to tell it like it is. She usually offers up all my options and explains them before me asking. She's ready for all my questions.

------

 

Jessica

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Guest greytkidsmom

As the owner of a greyhound who collects tumors like some people collect postage stamps I would ask about having the whole mass removed and sent for pathology. This gets the mass out and even if it is cancer, like 3greytjoys said, it could remove it enough that it may be all the treatment needed in a dog his age.

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Guest Nick

Thank you, all, for the advice and information. I appreciate it very much. I'll endeavor to get a photo of the area, Batmom.

 

-N

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Hemangeosarcoma comes in different forms. Dermal and hypodermal (cutaneous) hemangio is curable and has a fairly good prognosis after surgery. It is the visceral (heart or speen) hemangio that is the absolute killer. More information on the different types here:

I'd definitely follow through with your vet. What you are describing sounds more like cutaneous hemangio so please don't give up yet! Having said that, I would be quite concerned about the weight loss. My Catwalk's only symptom of hemangio was rapid weight loss towards the end. No symptoms otherwise, and even her blood work only showed mild pancreatitis. She had visceral hemangio that had already destroyed her spleen and most of her liver. We decided to let her go after her diagnosis. She was only 7 but it was a quality of life issue. She would probably have only lived a few more weeks with massive pain control and could have bled out at any time.

Gillian
Caesar (Black Caesarfire) and Olly (Oregon) the Galgo

 

Still missing: Nell (spaniel mix) 1982-1997, Boudicca (JRT) 1986- 2004, and the greys P's Catwalk 2001-2008, Murphy Peabody (we failed fostering) 1998-2010 and Pilgrim (Blazing Leia) 2003-2016,

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Guest Nick

Sorry to hear about Catwalk, Saffron. Could the tumors on her spleen or liver be felt or seen?

I'm going to go through with the biopsy. He's lost more weight, but I just bought some high-calorie food to mix in with his IAMS low-residue formula, which as folks noted in another set of posts is very low-cal. Hopefully the low-residue food is the culprit and not cancer. Either way I want to get his weight up.

 

I'll provide an update on the biopsy and weight issue when I have something to share.

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Sending good thoughts. :hope

Cynthia, & Cristiano, galgo
Always in my heart: Frostman
Newdawn Frost, Keno Jet Action & Chloe (NGA racing name unknown), Irys (galgo), Hannah (weim), Cruz (galgo), & Carly CW Your Charming

Princess http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?i=1018857

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life, gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are." -- Unknown

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My Bruiser had splenic hemangiosarcoma. Of course I didn't know it was HSA when I opted to have the surgery to remove the spleen with the mass when it was found on x-ray. He went through 5 rounds of chemo and overall did very well. I let him go this past February, eight months after his surgery, but I had 7-1/2 good months with him that I will always treasure. My vet felt he might have had a better chance if the tumor had not ruptured before it was removed. I'll be keeping you and your boy in my thoughts as you wait for the biopsy results.

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  • 2 months later...

Thanks to all who commented and answered my questions. We had a biopsy done and it came back clean. The slightly raised "mass" was possibly just from an old racing injury or who knows what, but it's not cancerous. And by using IAMS low-residue puppy food, his weight increased a bit and has stabilized. So all is good.

 

Thanks, again.

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Thank goodness! Hope your boy remains well.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Thanks to all who commented and answered my questions. We had a biopsy done and it came back clean. The slightly raised "mass" was possibly just from an old racing injury or who knows what, but it's not cancerous. And by using IAMS low-residue puppy food, his weight increased a bit and has stabilized. So all is good.

 

Thanks, again.

 

Thanks to all who commented and answered my questions. We had a biopsy done and it came back clean. The slightly raised "mass" was possibly just from an old racing injury or who knows what, but it's not cancerous. And by using IAMS low-residue puppy food, his weight increased a bit and has stabilized. So all is good.

 

Thanks, again.

I'm so glad everything's OK. I lost my Sobe to hemangio. The diagnosis was confirmed from a syringe biopsy. Not very invasive, or painful, and I was glad we knew. There was nothing to be done for it - but we were able to keep him comfortable and have a good quality of life because we knew the diagnosis.

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Wonderful news!

Cynthia, & Cristiano, galgo
Always in my heart: Frostman
Newdawn Frost, Keno Jet Action & Chloe (NGA racing name unknown), Irys (galgo), Hannah (weim), Cruz (galgo), & Carly CW Your Charming

Princess http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?i=1018857

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life, gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are." -- Unknown

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wonderful update :clap you must be so pleased

Jan with precious pups Emmy (Stormin J Flag) and Simon (Nitro Si). Missing my angels: Bailey Buffetbobleclair 11/11/98-17/12/09; Ben Task Rapid Wave 5/5/02-2/11/15; Brooke Glo's Destroyer 7/09/06-21/06/16 and Katie Crazykatiebug 12/11/06 -21/08/21. My blog about grief The reality is that you will grieve forever. You will not get over the loss of a loved one; you will learn to live with it. You will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again but you will never be the same. Nor should you be the same, nor would you want to. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross

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