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Rally Obedience And Martingales?


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Quick question for those of you who already compete in Rally-O. In class last night my trainer was reading through some of the rules with us and one is "No prong collars, choke chains, martingales, or head collars". Basically nothing but a flat buckle. Will they make an exception for a sighthound?

 

The way I see it we have 3 options:

 

1. Use a flat buckle as requested

2. Try to get an exception for a martingale

3. Wait to enter novice until I feel she could actually compete at the advanced level (i.e. off leash).

 

What have you done for trialing with your sighthound?

 

ETA: Just thought of a fourth possible option... use a fishtail collar? It's flat and buckles...?

Edited by krissy

Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds: Kili (ATChC AgMCh Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly RN IP MSCDC MTRDC ExS Bronze ExJ Bronze ) and Kenna (Lakilanni Kiss The Sky RN MADC MJDC AGDC AGEx AGExJ). Waiting at the Bridge: Retired racer Summit (Bbf Dropout) May 5, 2005-Jan 30, 2019

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Is that on the site, period, or just when competing? Because a fifth option is to have a buckle tag collar, and just slip the martingale off right before going into the ring and put it back on when you come out.

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Just in the ring. The dogs would be on proper collars at all other times. My concern is the dog spooking, backing out of a flat buckle, jumping the ring and gone. I admit this is a very minor possibility that I don't really see being a huge issue... just seems to me that at the novice level there's a REASON you're showing the dog on-leash... i.e. off leash control isn't perfect yet. So why would I show in a collar that could potentially lead to an off leash dog? I just wasn't sure what most sighthound owners chose to do at the novice level... or if they chose to skip novice and wait until the dog was totally reliable off leash in case of an accidental off leashing.

 

Maybe this will be less of a concern by the time I'm actually ready to compete Kili in novice, it's just right now she works really well, but as a puppy sometimes in the middle of working something else distracts her and I could see her accidentally losing her collar. I'm not sure how long it'll take to decide to show her in novice. She has a conformation show in early June where they also have Rally-O and I kind of thought even if she's not ready it would be nice to get her in the ring just for the experience. But of course in that case she really might accidentally back out of a non-martingale.

Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds: Kili (ATChC AgMCh Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly RN IP MSCDC MTRDC ExS Bronze ExJ Bronze ) and Kenna (Lakilanni Kiss The Sky RN MADC MJDC AGDC AGEx AGExJ). Waiting at the Bridge: Retired racer Summit (Bbf Dropout) May 5, 2005-Jan 30, 2019

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What about a limited slip collar? They are different than a martingale.

 

According to the rules nothing but a flat buckle. No "training collars".

Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds: Kili (ATChC AgMCh Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly RN IP MSCDC MTRDC ExS Bronze ExJ Bronze ) and Kenna (Lakilanni Kiss The Sky RN MADC MJDC AGDC AGEx AGExJ). Waiting at the Bridge: Retired racer Summit (Bbf Dropout) May 5, 2005-Jan 30, 2019

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Hmm, I don't know about Rally. But if they're anything like CGC/TDI, they don't make exceptions for sighthounds. I had to test both Henry and Truman on flat, buckle collars. All of Henry's therapy dog work has to be performed on the same. Luckily, all of these things have happened indoors, so I've never been too concerned about him spooking and backing out of the collar. On a puppy though, I can see your worry. If there is a national, overseeing organization for Rally, I would maybe get in contact with them for clarification.

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All the therapy dog groups here make an exception for sighthounds, both for the evaluation and for all subsequent therapy dog work. Since a flat buckle collar is 100% incorrect hardware for a sighthound, if your Rally-O organizing group MAKES you use it -- I dunno, I'd be tempted to bail as they are obviously ignorant. Alternatively, I see no reason why your Option 4 wouldn't work -- it's a buckle collar with no martingale action. Betcha Spriet's mom can hook you up.

Edited by OwnedBySummer

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Lisa B.

My beautiful Summer - to her forever home May 1, 2010 Summer

Certified therapy dog team with St. John Ambulance

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I dont know anything about those rules but in Europe lots of people use fishtail collars for sighthounds instead of martingales. I just posted a thread a few days ago with Spriet modeling some collars. I think they are very safe, we always used them for our Greyhounds.

 

ETA: link: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/297471-its-not-easy-being-a-model/

The pink one is a Whippet size, the red one Greyhound size

Edited by AnneGTS

Anne, Sasha & Tapas. Spriet (2002-2015), Tibbie (2000-2015) and Gunda (1996-2009)

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I know in some (and maybe all) years past at the Abilene greyhound gathering fun run (on a real training track) they specified only flat buckle collars and lots of people were lined up at Greyhound Supply by the NGA buying flat buckle plastic coated kennel collars for something like $3 -$4 each.

 

Every dog except one (Onco Dothead who came with a beautiful tooled leather flat buckle collar) directly from a track or farm came to me wearing a flat buckle kennel collar.

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Leaning towards getting a buckle collar from LongDogLeather.

Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds: Kili (ATChC AgMCh Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly RN IP MSCDC MTRDC ExS Bronze ExJ Bronze ) and Kenna (Lakilanni Kiss The Sky RN MADC MJDC AGDC AGEx AGExJ). Waiting at the Bridge: Retired racer Summit (Bbf Dropout) May 5, 2005-Jan 30, 2019

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1. A martingale IS both a limited-slip collar and a choke collar. Any collar that tightens when you pull on the leash is a choke collar. A limited-slip collar is a choke collar that doesn't choke *indefinitely* -- there's a stop somewhere.

 

 

2. Flat buckle collars are not incorrect for sighthounds. There's no ignorance on the part of the rules committees.

 

 

3. Note that most (all?) of the Longdog Leather collars are still martingales. They simply have a buckle within the control loop. Those would still fall under the heading of limited-slip and choke collars.

 

 

I'd use a fishtail collar. Properly adjusted, she won't get out of it.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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I do recognize that a martingale is a choke collar of sorts, my "objection" (I wouldn't go quite that far but not sure what other word I'm looking for) is that I'm not using it as a training collar so it's no different than using a flat buckle except she's less likely to back out of it.

 

Long Dog does make a European buckle collar that has no martingale. My impression was that was the same as a fishtail, but maybe that's not true.

Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds: Kili (ATChC AgMCh Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly RN IP MSCDC MTRDC ExS Bronze ExJ Bronze ) and Kenna (Lakilanni Kiss The Sky RN MADC MJDC AGDC AGEx AGExJ). Waiting at the Bridge: Retired racer Summit (Bbf Dropout) May 5, 2005-Jan 30, 2019

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The organization's point of view is probably that you shouldn't have a training-type collar on the dog in the ring, regardless of how you're using it. Else people could show in prong collars, etc. Not my viewpoint either, exactly, but that would be the logical progression.

 

Longdog's European buckle collars do appear to be plain buckle collars, not martingales. :)

 

A good stiff buckle collar, properly fitted, isn't any more apt to come off than a martingale, other limited-slip, or plain choke. "We" tend to use martingales on our sighthounds because they're a bit more forgiving of improperly loose collar adjustment.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Well I think I'm going to order a collar from them and just show her in that until we move up to advanced.

 

I know there's a diagram for fitting a martingale properly. Is there one for a fishtail that you know of?

Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds: Kili (ATChC AgMCh Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly RN IP MSCDC MTRDC ExS Bronze ExJ Bronze ) and Kenna (Lakilanni Kiss The Sky RN MADC MJDC AGDC AGEx AGExJ). Waiting at the Bridge: Retired racer Summit (Bbf Dropout) May 5, 2005-Jan 30, 2019

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For most people, I would say, when you think it's tight enough, tighten it up another 2 inches :lol . You want it to sit high on the neck, and you want it so that when it's on, you either can't get it off at all without unbuckling it, or only with great difficulty (two hands, one ear at a time, much caution).

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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One more thing (not sure if this applies though). For CGC/TDI, they allow regular, plain harnesses. I believe it's because some dogs have medical conditions and cannot have pressure or strain on their necks. So they can't make a blanket rule that "all dogs must use flat buckle collars." If the same is true with Rally, you could get her a nice fitted harness. That would give you a little more control.

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CGC/TDI are service organizations. Rally is an AKC show category.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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I didn't realize that Long Dog made a "European" sighthound collar. I've wanted one for a long time. They don't appear to be vendors at the GEM Event but they were at BBH last year so I'm hoping they'll be there again this year!

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Lisa B.

My beautiful Summer - to her forever home May 1, 2010 Summer

Certified therapy dog team with St. John Ambulance

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Lisa, it's just listed as a buckle, non-martingale collar.

Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds: Kili (ATChC AgMCh Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly RN IP MSCDC MTRDC ExS Bronze ExJ Bronze ) and Kenna (Lakilanni Kiss The Sky RN MADC MJDC AGDC AGEx AGExJ). Waiting at the Bridge: Retired racer Summit (Bbf Dropout) May 5, 2005-Jan 30, 2019

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I'd go with a fishtail/European hound collar. I use them all the time and I find them to be just as safe as martingales. I put mine on pretty snug, and then do the "pull test" to ensure that they can't even come close to going over the head. I use them almost exclusively on my Ibizans and frequently with my Greyhounds.

 

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Edited by GreytHoundPoet
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I was also going to suggest the "fishtail" collars. I know a lot of people in Europe use them and they are harder to slip over the head. They tend to be wide though, so don't know if they allow that??

 

On the race track they walk them around on buckle collars, I am sure if it is tight enough it will be okay...especially since your pups are well trained and not likely to take off.

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I'd be leery of the narrow buckle collar. I've only been to one racetrack and although I honestly didn't notice what type of collar they were wearing, they were fully fenced at all times, with special walkways and such. If someone DID get off-leash, they would still have been safe.

 

I love the fishtail/European collar idea. In fact, I'm going to see just what Longdog can do for me. I want something suitable for greyhound playdates yet still very girly.

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Lisa B.

My beautiful Summer - to her forever home May 1, 2010 Summer

Certified therapy dog team with St. John Ambulance

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Are you doing CKC Rally or CARO?

 

CARO might be a bit more forgiving and allow a martingale at novice.

 

And...I'd just make sure that the Fishtail is actually considered a plain flat-buckle collar.

 

Nancy...Mom to Sid (Peteles Tiger), Kibo (112 Carlota Galgos) and Mario (2nd Chance Rescue).   Missing Casey, Gomer, Mona, Penelope, BillieJean, Bandit, Nixon (Starz Sammie),  Ruby (Watch Me Dash) and especially  Nigel (Nigel), waiting at the Bridge

 

 

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