Need Advice!

[Guest Isabella]

Ok so Izzy got away yesterday morning around 11, there were no sightings of her the rest of the day, I was up at dawn today and out looking around 8 am I had my first sighting of her a couple miles from my house, at one point she was back in my yard, I even got her to take a hotdog out of my hand but then she bolted again, long story short it was after 5 pm before I finally got her. My question is, will she always be this way? It was so frustrating when she would get close and then switch directions again, we never chased, just watched with binoculars and followed from a distance, will she ever trust me enough to just come to me? I know I have not had her long enough to build that trust yet, just wondering if it will ever come. I'm just so relieved to have her back and there will be NO more retractable leashes in my house so no one can make that mistake again.

[macoduck]

She is still so new in your home. Give her time. She did return to your home. Whether she knew it or smelled your other dog, at least she acted on it. You do have a growing bond of trust.

If you read the old stories of lost greyhounds in the Amber Alert section you'll see that they can go feral in a short period of time, even if the dog had lived with its people for years.

We can't predict. We can protect. We can learn from others. Just as Izzy will learn from you that she is safe.

[Guest june]

Give her, and you, time to recover from this trauma.

 

Then work with her on what I call an emergency recall. I use a special word for emergencies with my girls. You start in the house using a word or sound that you will use only in training or in an emergency. Use the best, most valued treat (this varies with each dog). Anytime and EVERY TIME you use your special recall the dog gets the treat. Feed tiny pieces slowly so the dog stays close by you and gently stroke and praise the dog. After the dog is doing this reliably inside next try the yard and gradually working to larger (SAFE) areas. ALWAYS give the treat if the dog comes to the special call. Practice this on a regular basis so the dog remembers. NEVER USE this recall casually. This is your emergency recall.

Edited March 31, 2013 by june

[Batmom]

I'm sure with time and a little training work, she'll learn a good recall. But, as others have noted, when they're frightened all bets are off, and they often don't react normally when they've been loose for awhile.

 

Just so glad you and your other pup (and those hot dogs) were able to reel her in. If you heard a funny noise from the east, that was me here in Illinois breathing a huge sigh of relief.

[Guest Isabella]

She is still so new in your home. Give her time. She did return to your home. Whether she knew it or smelled your other dog, at least she acted on it. You do have a growing bond of trust.

If you read the old stories of lost greyhounds in the Amber Alert section you'll see that they can go feral in a short period of time, even if the dog had lived with its people for years.

We can't predict. We can protect. We can learn from others. Just as Izzy will learn from you that she is safe.

This brought tears to my eyes, thank you Ducky !!

[OwnedBySummer]

It will get better with Izzy! I've seen hounds which are way "worse" than her become wonderfully bonded with their human. But it takes time and patience, lots of time and patience. Even with my Summer, who bonded with me the very first day... the bond has grown even more amazing over time. Don't worry -- she will love you!

 

June, what word do you use for your special emergency recall? And does it work for you at, say, greyhound playdates? Not when they are running and intense, of course, but when they are socializing and wandering about? I can easily and reliably call Summer both in the house and in our yard ("Summer, come") but when she's out with the hounds in a diamond, even just with one other hound, I am apparently no longer very interesting. Do you have suggestions?

Edited March 31, 2013 by OwnedBySummer

[Guest mld]

Glad to hear that Izzy is home safe again with you again!

[a_daerr]

Take this as an excellent learning experience and an opportunity to work on recall training. High value treats, only good things when you call her name. You can also do an emergency recall command (I use a whistle) for circumstances when there are distractions present. SO glad you were able to get her back. Lots of other dogs aren't as fortunate.

[BatterseaBrindl]

So glad this had a happy ending....

 

Did she slip her collar?
Maybe she needs a harness.

 

Edited to say that I had not read the other threads beofre posting this.....

Edited March 31, 2013 by BatterseaBrindl

[DaisyDoodle]

Can some dog/human behaviorist jump in here please? I have a question about continuous versus intermittent reinforcement.

 

When I taught Intro to Psychology when I was in grad school, the research indicated that continuous reinforcement (giving a treat, reinforcer, EVERY time) was not as effective at long term maintenance of a behavior as intermittent reinforcement (giving the treat/reinforcement some of the time but NOT every time).

 

Why would continuous reinforcement be used when training recall in an emergency situation? As soon as a person really needs to use it in the field, he/she probably won't have the high-value treat on them, and the reinforcer won't be presented. That first occurrence of the behavior that is NOT reinforced begins the "extinction" phase of the behavior training--i.e., the phase where the behavior begins to go away. (Whereas, in intermittent reinforcement, a dog knows it may have to present a behavior several times before getting a "reward".)

 

What if the dog isn't caught on the first trial of the emergency recall word? The dog will begin to doubt that it is doing to get a treat.

 

I am not a behaviorist, and I have not seen the research for many years (as I have worked in data management rather than psychology), but the suggestion in an earlier post above goes counter to what I understand about operant conditioning.

Edited March 31, 2013 by DaisyDoodle

[a_daerr]

For most obedience training, yes. Of course, you scale the treats back after the dog begins to associate the command word with the behavior. Gradually, the treat can be replaced by a marker, like saying 'yes!' or 'good!.' But because recall is SO important, the dog needs to understand that coming to you is ALWAYS positive (whether with treats, pets, verbal praise, whatever). Therefore, it is not recommended to call your dog for negative things, for example, a bath. It takes a long time and practice under many different distractions to have a sighthound with a solid and reliable recall. That's why June advised the OP to always reward a recall- I recommend using treats as a reward for much longer than other, regular commands (I.e sit, down).

[Hawthorn]

I'm not a behaviourist either, but to me it's just common sense that a dog who knows it's going to get a super-tasty treat every time it does something is going to be more motivated than one who doesn't. I've always trained mine that way and it has worked well for me.

 

We don't leave the house with the dogs without high-value treats, whether we're going for a walk or the vets or wherever, and we have small plastic containers containing less high value treats (kibble) in the kitchen, living room, two bedrooms and one on the bookcase by the front door, so we always have something to hand. The plastic containers are particularly useful because they make a nice rattling sound which quickly gets the dog's attention.

 

Also recall is something you train hoping that you'll never need to use it in an emergency situation. In the six years I've owned Sunny and Sophie I've only had to use it once in a potentially dangerous situation when DH accidentally let Sophie out the front door (this was before we had babygates). I called her and she immediately rushed back in looking expectantly for her reward. I didn't have a high-value treat immediately to hand but I was able to grab a kibble container and give her some of that, closely followed by a high-value treat.

[Guest june]

It will get better with Izzy! I've seen hounds which are way "worse" than her become wonderfully bonded with their human. But it takes time and patience, lots of time and patience. Even with my Summer, who bonded with me the very first day... the bond has grown even more amazing over time. Don't worry -- she will love you!

 

June, what word do you use for your special emergency recall? And does it work for you at, say, greyhound playdates? Not when they are running and intense, of course, but when they are socializing and wandering about? I can easily and reliably call Summer both in the house and in our yard ("Summer, come") but when she's out with the hounds in a diamond, even just with one other hound, I am apparently no longer very interesting. Do you have suggestions?

I chose the word "Fast" because it is easy to remember and doesn't really sound like any other word I use frequently or as a command. No other greys near me for a play date, but I do occasionally take all three of mine to an enclosed field and when they are playing will occasionally use the emergency word (I always have cooked roast pork (lean) which is their special treat and they come running! I've never had to use it in an emergency, thank God, but a friend who also uses this tried it while lure coursing and her hound left the lure, turned around and came to her! She said she cried for half an hour she was so touched and happy! And gave her girl the whole bag of treats!

[HoundHeavenAZ]

Sorry - I can't offer any good advice. But I am so proud that you had such awesome GT support and assistance in finding your girl. I'm so pleased that you and she are together again.

 

Sorta renews my faith in humanity to see the generosity of spirit here

[greytpups]

Ok so Izzy got away yesterday morning around 11, there were no sightings of her the rest of the day, I was up at dawn today and out looking around 8 am I had my first sighting of her a couple miles from my house, at one point she was back in my yard, I even got her to take a hotdog out of my hand but then she bolted again, long story short it was after 5 pm before I finally got her. My question is, will she always be this way? It was so frustrating when she would get close and then switch directions again, we never chased, just watched with binoculars and followed from a distance, will she ever trust me enough to just come to me? I know I have not had her long enough to build that trust yet, just wondering if it will ever come. I'm just so relieved to have her back and there will be NO more retractable leashes in my house so no one can make that mistake again.

I think Ducky's advice is way better than mine but I had a dog that was lost for 9 days and we only adopted her 2 weeks earlier. After we found her, she never left my side for the rest of her life. I can't say that will happen in your case, this was just my experience. Once I carried her to the car when we found her, we bonded like no other.

 

Trust takes time...she was scared, but she knew where home was...that's a start.

[Guest june]

I chose the word "Fast" because it is easy to remember and doesn't really sound like any other word I use frequently or as a command. No other greys near me for a play date, but I do occasionally take all three of mine to an enclosed field and when they are playing will occasionally use the emergency word (I always have cooked roast pork (lean) which is their special treat and they come running! I've never had to use it in an emergency, thank God, but a friend who also uses this tried it while lure coursing and her hound left the lure, turned around and came to her! She said she cried for half an hour she was so touched and happy! And gave her girl the whole bag of treats!

I should have added: The only advice I have is practice, practice and more practice with lots of praise and lots of treats.

 

Also, I hope I never HAVE to use this. I'm very careful with my girls and as the saying goes "an ounce of prevention is is worth more than . . . "

[OwnedBySummer]

Thank you!

[Guest Isabella]

I think Ducky's advice is way better than mine but I had a dog that was lost for 9 days and we only adopted her 2 weeks earlier. After we found her, she never left my side for the rest of her life. I can't say that will happen in your case, this was just my experience. Once I carried her to the car when we found her, we bonded like no other.

 

Trust takes time...she was scared, but she knew where home was...that's a start.

I'm hoping this has been a bonding experience. She hasn't left the couch all day, except to go out to potty in which case she wanted to come RIGHT back in, and everytime I leave her side on the couch she whines. It was just so frustrating yesterday to get so close but you're right she did know where home was which really surprised me since its only been home for 4 weeks, I was SO frantic that she was going to just keep running. I really don't think anyone else could have lured her in so I guess maybe the trust is starting when I think about it ! Thanks , I feel better!!!

 

I don't think I could do 9 days I'm exhausted after 30 hours!

Edited April 1, 2013 by Isabella

[krissy]

Can some dog/human behaviorist jump in here please? I have a question about continuous versus intermittent reinforcement.When I taught Intro to Psychology when I was in grad school, the research indicated that continuous reinforcement (giving a treat, reinforcer, EVERY time) was not as effective at long term maintenance of a behavior as intermittent reinforcement (giving the treat/reinforcement some of the time but NOT every time)

This is true. You are supposed to vary the reward schedule and the rewards themselves. Dogs like to gamble. Making them gamble actually makes their behaviours more reliable. I do not reward Summit for every recall. If I call him in from the yard I only reward him once every 10 times probably. With food at least. He usually gets some sort of acknowledgement that he did a good thing, some praise and attention, I might throw a toy for him, etc, If we're out on a hike the reward schedule is a little higher. And I always mix up the rewards. For Summit sometimes he gets praise as his reward. Kili gets mostly food rewards still for her calls but I mix those up too. Sometimes I give really high value treats and sometimes I give plain boring kibble. She never knows what she is going to get, so her recall is more reliable because her curiosity makes her want to find out what I have.

 

I always have some sort of food on me. If the dogs we in a dangerous situation and responded to my emergency recall I would have something for them. It's also nice to have on hand to throw for loose dogs to get them away from us.

[deboosh]

I'm a newbie greyhound mama too, and because I am only beginning to learn about commands and recall, I went to the hunting section of our local Canadian Tire store and picked up a squawker, "just in case" Bonnie accidentally got away from me. I always carry it whenever I'm out with her and did have occasion to use it a couple of months ago. It happened when we used to frequent the dog parks. This particular one was fenced, but there was a portion of the park where the "fence" was a tree-lined creek. Bonnie decided to investigate the dense bush area and managed to get far enough away that I could no longer see where she went, and she wasn't responding when I called. One quick, short blast on the squawker and she was at my side within a few seconds. I have only used this tool once, as it also should only be used as an emergency recall. It's a permanent part of my walking paraphernalia~~poop bags, keys, cell phone, a wet nap/tissue for any messy pudding poops and the squawker. We all learn, then move on. I'm so glad your girl is back home, safe and sound with you!

[a_daerr]

A squawker probably won't work with Izzy since she's a staghound and has never been race-trained. You could definitely go through the training with her in order to use one for emergency recall though. Any unique noise, squawker, whistle, etc. would work.

[Yamaha_gurl]

It's not that hard to teach recall. Start with tiny steps 1) Call her from a few feet away "Izzy, come here!" in a happy voice, when she does, give her a treat. 2) Go further in the house 3) On leash 4) Fenced yard 5) Baseball diamond 6) Dog park. We work on recall every time we go to the diamond or dog park...about 3 times a week.

[deboosh]

A squawker probably won't work with Izzy since she's a staghound and has never been race-trained. You could definitely go through the training with her in order to use one for emergency recall though. Any unique noise, squawker, whistle, etc. would work.

 

Oops, I thought a dog's response to the sound of a squawker was instinctual as opposed to a learned response. Thanks for correcting such an important tidbit to know!

[PrairieProf]

It's not that hard to teach recall. Start with tiny steps 1) Call her from a few feet away "Izzy, come here!" in a happy voice, when she does, give her a treat. 2) Go further in the house 3) On leash 4) Fenced yard 5) Baseball diamond 6) Dog park. We work on recall every time we go to the diamond or dog park...about 3 times a week.

 

I would differ, I think it's VERY hard to teach a meaningful recall to many greyhounds. I'm not an expert (Beth is my first dog) but we have done a zillion training classes and Beth does the recall perfectly well in a class or when she knows we are playing the "recall game." When she is focused on the idea that that's what we're doing, she will recall fine in an open area. But if there is a sniffy spot on the grass or a pile of poop or something that catches her visual interest in the distance, she could. not. care. less. about coming to me, even if I am waving good treats. (There is no negative consequence for not obeying, after all.) So yeah we practice it regularly, but I am never optimistic it would actually work in an emergency. She definitely understands the command but obeys it only when she wants to. And I've never had any clue how to overcome that in an open area, though I presume a really experienced trainer could. (Admittedly I don't have a second person to work with in training practice, which might make it easier.) Fortunately she is not shy and is extremely people- and dog-friendly so I trust that would help if (God forbid) she ever got loose.

 

AND she has never seemed to give a crap about the squawker, either. I have one and she won't come to investigate the sound from even a moderate distance. So it's not universal among race-trained hounds, either. Someone recently suggested to me that good racers seem to respond better to it than lousy ones (Beth was a lousy one) though I have no idea if that's universally true, and FWIW we know being a good racer is not correlated with prey drive, which might also be a factor.

Edited April 2, 2013 by PrairieProf

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

AND she has never seemed to give a crap about the squawker, either. I have one and she won't come to investigate the sound from even a moderate distance. So it's not universal among race-trained hounds, either. Someone recently suggested to me that good racers seem to respond better to it than lousy ones (Beth was a lousy one) though I have no idea if that's universally true, and FWIW we know being a good racer is not correlated with prey drive, which might also be a factor.

Sir Dudley was a horrible racer, but he will bite your hand off to get to the squawker! I know some greyt racers who also woudln't give a hoot. I think it's just who used the squawker/how often, etc.

 

 

I also agree that it is very difficult to train reliable recall. Dudley knows there is a difference of when we are training, and when we are not, and even after a year he still takes advantage of that. When most dogs escape/get loose it is in very unpredictable situations that can be hard to train for. Dog parks/enclosed areas can be predictable to your dog