Growling And Grabbing And We Are So Upset

[Guest LauraB]

We are so distressed. Dillard snaps and grabs my husband. This morning my DH started to put Dillard's coat on him and Dillard reared up, growled and grabbed his arm. Luckily, it is so cold her, 9 degrees, that my DH had 3 layers on and no harm done. Last week Dillard the same thing when my DH came near the couch where Dillard was wide awake. This has happened 5 times now. I can approach him anytime. I can pet him when he is waking up, put his coat on etc. DH is very upset and doesn't want to live with a dog who is unpredictable. He is also distressed that we are treated so differently. I must say that our training is not too good right now. We do heel, come, and go to your place in the house because it is awful outside. We take him out 5 or 6 times a day, but he hates it, does his p&p and turns towards the house. Sometimes I make him stay out longer, but it's tough and he hates his coat and tries to shake it off continuously. I have to go to work now. DH works from home and usually takes Dillard out at 12 and at 3. Then I walk when I come home and we both walk at 9:30-10. DH will not put Dillard's coat on today, so he will be cold.

Please give me some ideas. We both love this dog, but we can't live like this.

thanks,

Laura

[ozgirl2]

Hi Laura - and welcome to GreyTalk!

 

Others will be able to give you better advice, probably, but for now, look up NILIF on here - it's Nothing In Life Is Free training and often helps with space aggression, guarding, etc. Basically, everything Dillard gets, he has to earn - and for now, NO COUCH!!

 

Others will post soon - but start there!! And remember... he's new to the home life and doesn't know what's expected of him yet.

 

Good luck - you'll get lots of good advice here...

[msjpk]

Where did you adopt him from? Reach out to the group and I am sure they have someone who will help you with this.

Sounds like he is challenging male. When you say he grab arm, was it for a bite or something else?

Nothing in life is free training is the way to go and husband should be doing it also.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Batmom]

Leaning over a dog feels like a threat -- that is likely at least part of what is going on with your DH. It could go a long ways toward making a good relationship for your DH to feed the dog and be dispenser of all treats.

 

Some dogs do not like coats, even when it's very cold. Unless you're going to be out for more than a few minutes, I wouldn't bother. Once the dog has peed and pooped, I wouldn't make him stay out longer in these temps. Plenty of time for that when it's warmer .

 

I would teach "off" the couch sooner rather than later. Here I don't make a big hairy deal of such things, but dogs who do more than mildly grumble about sharing the couch are told (firmly but kindly) to go sleep somewhere else.

 

Second the suggestion to reach out to the group. They may have someone who knows the dog a little and can offer more suggestions based on what they've seen of his personality.

 

 

P.S. for your DH: My spooky angel Zema was horrified by my late father (over 6', deep voice) the first several times she met him. She would bark alarmingly at him and skirt around so she never got closer than 10' away. Then we lived with my parents for a time. First 6 months, she wouldn't emerge from her crate for him, wouldn't go outside for him, etc. He basically ignored her shenanigans. At @ the 6 month point, I guess she'd had enough chance to observe his harmlessness and decided he was the best person ever. Time the great healer, you know?

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

I don't know how long you've had your boy, but we went through the same thing. My grey will let me do anything to her, but she took a lot longer to warm up to DH, and still isn't as trusting of him as me. We've had her for almost three years.

 

I agree with the others. Using NILF is a good way to begin. Your DH is on the right track not putting his coat on, I would take him out walking without his coat for the next little while. Since the dog hates the coat having it put on isn't a pleasant interaction, and until he and your DH need positive interactions to help them bond. Since they're just going out long enough to P&P, he shouldn't get too cold without it.

 

One thing that helped my DH was the muzzle. He had more confidence interacting with our grey while she wore it and in turn that relaxed her around him. I would also find a treat that Dillard really likes, and make sure he only gets that treat while training/playing with DH. We found that Jayne goes crazy for Beggin Strips, and now we keep them around for my DH to give her whenever he wants. (Although I get to use them for door training).

 

P.S. for your DH: My spooky angel Zema was horrified by my late father (over 6', deep voice) the first several times she met him. She would bark alarmingly at him and skirt around so she never got closer than 10' away. Then we lived with my parents for a time. First 6 months, she wouldn't emerge from her crate for him, wouldn't go outside for him, etc. He basically ignored her shenanigans. At @ the 6 month point, I guess she'd had enough chance to observe his harmlessness and decided he was the best person ever. Time the great healer, you know?

 

This would be good for your DH to see. Sometimes a person scares a dog without doing anything at all wrong. My DH certainly never behaved in any way I saw that should have scared Jayne, in fact it was me that scared her a couple times in our first weeks and shut her tail in the door, but dogs aren't rational creatures.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Jayne

[Guest LauraB]

Dillard came to us this past June. The growling and biting started in the fall. I spoke to the person at the group and her advise was keep his boundaries Don't go near him when he is sleeping. Never touch him unless he is on his feet, etc. It was more about the dog than us.

He just balked when I went to put his coat on so I took him out without it. He walked into the woods, peed and turned to the house as fast as I could walk.

Edited January 23, 2013 by LauraB

[vjgrey]

It was more about the dog than us.

 

Well, yeah. It is. He's the one who's been dropped into a totally new environment. It's your job to help him adapt.

[msjpk]

If their is hesitation, fright, etc. from you guys- off to training for all of you. It really does work. Just research their training methods and ask if they have trained greyhounds before.

[greysmom]

Your DH needs to become the Giver Of All Good Things for Dillard. Every interaction begins with something yummy. If Dillard remains calm during the activity, no matter how short (such as putting the leash on) he gets a treat from DH. And a treat at the end of the activity. These should be small but very stinky, flavorful treats. Enough for a chew or two and not any more. DH needs to feed him his meals and needs to walk him (as much as possible in this weather). If you are doing training commands, DH needs to do the bulk of them.

 

Dillard should not have couch privileges. If he gets up on the couch, DH should lure him off with a treat and a command "off" or "go to your bed" or whatever.

 

Dogs growl as a warning because they are anxious and/or fearful. Your DH likely did nothing wrong. My first thought, since the growling/biting began suddenly, was that he was somehow hurt or began experiencing pain associated with putting his coat on. Think back to see if there was limping or neck/back pain around the same time.

 

I had a greyhound who did NOT like his coat. He would wear it, but he wouldn't do anything while it was on. If I needed him to potty, I had to take his coat off. He preferred being naked even in the snow. Dillard won't freeze on a short potty walk, so I wouldn't worry too much about forcing him to wear one. If he has a "thing" about his coat specifically, you could desensitize him by using it as a blanket on his bed, or just having it around the house for him to see more. Treats for calmly interacting with the coat, of course.

[TheFullHouse]

I'm with Batmom, forget the coat. He won't freeze being outside for the short time it takes to go to the bathroom. He obviously has issues with your husband so I would make him the one to feed and treat the dog. He needs to learn that good things come from your husband. No furniture privileges until his behavioral issues are addressed.

[a_daerr]

Are you doing most of the daily duties, training, and interactions with Dillard? It's possible that he is not quite comfortable yet with your husband. Also, men tend to be a little more confrontational and rough with dogs, which doesn't always work with greys. Make sure your husband isn't grabbing or leaning over him. Make sure he's not raising his hands and reaching for the dog head-on. Given the fact that Dillard has snapped and actually made contact, my guess is that he's VERY fearful at this point. This doesn't make him "unpredictable." I would say it makes him more predictable, since he's clearly telling your husband what makes him uncomfortable. I would recommend that your husband spend more time participating in the duties and training (if he isn't already). If possible, allow your husband to feed Dillard his meals and take him on walks. If Dillard is laying on the floor being calm, have your husband sit in the general proximity, offering treats for calm behavior. Desensitize Dillard to being touched by your husband by giving treats for accepting petting on different parts of his body. Forget about the coat right now. Just take it very slow and allow Dillard time to bond with your husband.

[Guest Scouts_mom]

My timid boy, Henry, was terrified of men when he came to me. I was able to talk to his trainer and learned that only women had handled him at the track and at the farm. Men sound and probably smell different and he wasn't sure if he could trust them. But good friends (male) worked with him, being very quiet and gentle and giving him treats. Now he loves them. Strange men are okay as well as long as they are not huge and noisey. You've received a lot of good advice here--he will come to love yout husband.

[Guest LauraB]

Thanks for all the great advise. We are going to start over as if he is new. We really knew very little when he first came home. Now we are more educated in basic greyhound.

I'm home from work now. Dillard spent the morning upstairs in my DH's office, on his bed, but with his eyes averted. DH ignored him. Then, at noon, he went downstairs into his crate, with the door open, and started howling. DH took him for a quick p&p and gave him a turkey neck. (Dillard didn't earn it, but DH hadn't read this site yet.) Back into his crate, with the door open, and howled, then went to sleep till I came home. We practiced "come" for a few minutes, but he runs to the other person as soon as he downs his treat and gets his pets. DH gave him his delicious chicken gizzard dinner and now he is napping again. As soon as I get up the courage to go out in the 10 degree weather, we will go out.

We both have great affection for this dog and don't want to feel uncomfortable.

Edited January 23, 2013 by LauraB

[silverfish]

Dillard came to us this past June. The growling and biting started in the fall. I spoke to the person at the group and her advise was keep his boundaries Don't go near him when he is sleeping. Never touch him unless he is on his feet, etc. It was more about the dog than us.

He just balked when I went to put his coat on so I took him out without it. He walked into the woods, peed and turned to the house as fast as I could walk.

 

Well, yes. As VJGrey says, it is, really, all about him in a way. The adoption group is there to try to make things work for all of you, but their main concern is for the dog. That is their business. And the advice they gave you is good. There is a reason not to touch sleeping greyhounds until you know them: at the track they sleep alone and are never touched while sleeping. They are never surprised while sleeping. They have the comfort of dozens of other dogs all around them. They are adopted, and suddenly they are alone, which makes even the most confident dog feel a little nervous, and there are all these rules they don't understand, and people they don't know, and therefore don't trust, trying to do things to or with them. There is a great article here, all about their life at the track and why we need to be understanding when we first bring them to live with us.

 

You've had a lot of good advice, some of it quite diverse. I won't add to the confusion except to say that I agree that he sounds fearful and that since he doesn't like his coat, don't worry about trying to make him wear it. I often go out with one greyhound with a coat (Jeffie is very skinny, does feel the cold, and really doesn't care what we make him wear!) and one without a coat (Sid, who has thick fur, is well muscled, and HATES his coat to the point where he will see the coat and run away). I don't make Sid wear a coat unless it is well below freezing and we're going to be out for more than ten to fifteen minutes.

 

My advice would be to buy a decent book on dog body language and social signals. I like Stanley Coren's 'How To Speak Dog', and Patricia McConnell's 'The Other End of the Leash'. Suzanne Clothier has also written one, but I can't remember what it's called right now. Even if you've had dogs before, greyhounds need you to pay more attention because they often don't give such clear signals. This is why people often think they are growling or snapping 'with no warning'. It's not that they haven't give warnings - they have! - it's just that they are subtle and often missed.

[Fruitycake]

Thanks for all the great advise. We are going to start over as if he is new. We really knew very little when he first came home. Now we are more educated in basic greyhound.

I'm home from work now. Dillard spent the morning upstairs in my DH's office, on his bed, but with his eyes averted. DH ignored him. Then, at noon, he went downstairs into his crate, with the door open, and started howling. DH took him for a quick p&p and gave him a turkey neck. (Dillard didn't earn it, but DH hadn't read this site yet.) Back into his crate, with the door open, and howled, then went to sleep till I came home. We practiced "come" for a few minutes, but he runs to the other person as soon as he downs his treat and gets his pets. DH gave him his delicious chicken gizzard dinner and now he is napping again. As soon as I get up the courage to go out in the 10 degree weather, we will go out.

We both have great affection for this dog and don't want to feel uncomfortable.

 

I'd like to counter your comment (bolded) above. If your DH took him out and he pottied for him, I think he *did* earn the turkey neck. Sometimes to combat a fear and start a good connection between someone and your fearful dog, you need to start really small. I've heard of people rewarding dogs for merely not running away when the fear-causing-person enters a room! And your DH ignoring him when he's being good, may be a good thing too. Sometimes merely not intruding on another can be a reward (how often do you like a "stranger" getting into your personal space?). If he wanted to up the ante, your DH could have treats at his desk and periodically toss them at Dillard without making a huge deal about it. It might make spending time with your DH more rewarding in general (when I'm with this guy that sometimes makes me really scared, treats fall from the sky!).

 

Just my thoughts. I haven't worked with a truly fearful dog, but I have done similar with shy, spooky cats. Slow and steady, and make not acting out in fear rewarding for them seems to work the best with them.

[Hubcitypam]

I'm with Batmom, forget the coat. He won't freeze being outside for the short time it takes to go to the bathroom. He obviously has issues with your husband so I would make him the one to feed and treat the dog. He needs to learn that good things come from your husband. No furniture privileges until his behavioral issues are addressed.

X 3. Number one ditch the coat.

 

Like Fruitycake said, sometimes it can do wonders if the feared someone is a room with their back to the dog and pretty much ignoring them except for a few tossed treats...first far away then closer. The thought bubble reads "who is this person that doesn't want anything to do with me but rains treats?" As stated, it doesn't happen in a nanosecond.

[GeorgeofNE]

As soon as I get up the courage to go out in the 10 degree weather, we will go out. We both have great affection for this dog and don't want to feel uncomfortable

 

I wanted to briefly comment on this: your attitude about all things will be obvious to a sensitive dog. If you act like it's torture to go outside, that will rub off on him, and it will make things progressively more difficult. A dog who gets little to no exercise any time it's cold, whose routine is not consistent, is going to be a bit harder to manage than one who is kept on a schedule and also gets a bit tired out.

 

I know it can be rather unpleasant--but you need to get proper cold weather gear and do what you have to do.

 

I promise you: greyhounds at the kennels are NOT allowed to lounge about their crates when it's raining or cold or hot. Life goes on. He's not a flower, and although I don't know you, I am just guessing you are not either!

 

It's been about 5-9 degrees the past four mornings here, and George and I just carry on. My LL Bean Baxter State parka, my Mad Bomber hat, ski pants, sub zero socks, and my storm chaser boots for me, his jammies and a coat for him. 30 minutes in the dark. Do I enjoy this? Not especially. Do I feel content when I check on George via my smart phone spy camera app and see him sound asleep on his bed with his empty Kong next to him? Yes I do! George had a pretty serious case of SA when I adopted him, and some of the things I've learned is that ANY variation in our daily routine really throws him--even five years later!

 

As they say, a tired dog is a happy dog! Obviously exercise doesn't solve all, but it surely will help!

[Guest greytone]

Your DH needs to become the Giver Of All Good Things for Dillard. Every interaction begins with something yummy. If Dillard remains calm during the activity, no matter how short (such as putting the leash on) he gets a treat from DH. And a treat at the end of the activity. These should be small but very stinky, flavorful treats. Enough for a chew or two and not any more. DH needs to feed him his meals and needs to walk him (as much as possible in this weather). If you are doing training commands, DH needs to do the bulk of them.

 

Dillard should not have couch privileges. If he gets up on the couch, DH should lure him off with a treat and a command "off" or "go to your bed" or whatever.

 

Dogs growl as a warning because they are anxious and/or fearful. Your DH likely did nothing wrong. My first thought, since the growling/biting began suddenly, was that he was somehow hurt or began experiencing pain associated with putting his coat on. Think back to see if there was limping or neck/back pain around the same time.

 

I had a greyhound who did NOT like his coat. He would wear it, but he wouldn't do anything while it was on. If I needed him to potty, I had to take his coat off. He preferred being naked even in the snow. Dillard won't freeze on a short potty walk, so I wouldn't worry too much about forcing him to wear one. If he has a "thing" about his coat specifically, you could desensitize him by using it as a blanket on his bed, or just having it around the house for him to see more. Treats for calmly interacting with the coat, of course.

I think this lady is spot on.

[cleptogrey]

i agree w/ everyone about skipping the coat and nothing in life is free......but.....right now but i am going to ask a couple of questions

is this your first dog?

if not, what kind of training have you done in the past?

have you considered working in a group training class?

 

i firmly believe in, even for experience dog owners, classes. interview the teacher, tell them about what you are dealing with and come up with both short and long term goals. training is both training you & hubby- he has to go and maybe even handle the pup and teaching you how to communicate, set boundries and limitation and help your dog develop into a meaningful member your your household- your pac.

 

apdt association is a good resource, better than that is the akc, look up their obedience clubs and get info from the clubs. many clubs offer discounts if you have perfect attendance as well as if you have a rescue dog. stay away from petco/petsmart training.

[Guest LauraB]

Thanks everyone. We had a good few days. DH is doing all the feeding and treats and most of the walks, without his coat. I have discovered that putting large hand warmers inside my coat makes a big difference, but Dillard starts to shake after 15 minutes and we head back to the house. He pulls me as we get closer. Dillard has been very affectionate. We doing training together every night. We are very aware of his boundaries and that makes us much less distressed.

Cleptogrey- We are in Dutchess County, about 75 miles north of you. I couldn't find a class for training. I did find a trainer and we have had 3 sessions, heel, come and place. "Place" is what she calls his bed in every room. Come and heel are easy. Place is slow. I will research apdt.

[JJNg]

If you decide to go with a trainer/class, make sure you find one that uses reward-based, positive reinforcement training. Depending on where you live, some areas are still heavily into traditional training methods that use collar corrections, and other forceful, confrontational methods. I believe that such methods are unnecessary, and especially with a sensitive breed like the greyhound, can make a dog with behavior issues worse. Don't be shy about asking to see a class and observe the trainer in action before signing up.

 

IME, Petsmart classes vary widely based on the trainer(s) at a particular location. Where I am, the local Petsmart is the only class in the area that offers clicker training and primarily positive methods. When the alternative is traditional, correction based training, I prefer to send my clients who want the guidance of a class to Petsmart.

[a_daerr]

If you decide to go with a trainer/class, make sure you find one that uses reward-based, positive reinforcement training. Depending on where you live, some areas are still heavily into traditional training methods that use collar corrections, and other forceful, confrontational methods. I believe that such methods are unnecessary, and especially with a sensitive breed like the greyhound, can make a dog with behavior issues worse. Don't be shy about asking to see a class and observe the trainer in action before signing up.

 

IME, Petsmart classes vary widely based on the trainer(s) at a particular location. Where I am, the local Petsmart is the only class in the area that offers clicker training and primarily positive methods. When the alternative is traditional, correction based training, I prefer to send my clients who want the guidance of a class to Petsmart.

 

I guess I was being naive and thought negative training was a thing of the past... but I recently found out that there actually are a lot of very questionable and forceful training programs in my area. I found that one of the large doggie daycare/park/training conglomerates advises the use of shock collars! They also provide a program that lets the owner send their dog away for four weeks for a "transformational" training (for a mere $2000 pricetag). You really do have to do your research on trainers. Unfortunately, anyone can say they're a trainer and start a business. It's just one of those things that isn't heavily regulated.

 

To the OP, look for a trainer with certifications from AABP (Association of Animal Behavior Professionals), APDT (Association of Pet Dog Trainers), or CCPDT (Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers).

[Guest LauraB]

The trainer we used does't use treats. She showers him with petting and hugging and lots of "good heel" etc. He learns fast. However, I must say that we have been working on "come" and using treats. We can't afford the trainer's private sessions so I will go look at Petmart this week.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

The trainer we used does't use treats. She showers him with petting and hugging and lots of "good heel" etc. He learns fast. However, I must say that we have been working on "come" and using treats. We can't afford the trainer's private sessions so I will go look at Petmart this week.

My humane society has trainers/behaviorists at a lower cost, you should call your local HS and ask! The trainer at our humane society also does private in home training (as long as you live within a certain amt of miles) and it is at a knockdown price.