Difference Between A Greyhound 'smiling' And 'snarling&#39

[NeylasMom]

Here's a smile:

 

This picture is hysterical. Between this and the most recent ones from Greg I am laughing my butt off.

 

And I'm right back to what I said in my first post - you just know a smile when you see one. It's so ridiculously silly.

 

Although looking at these photos, you do see a lot of gum. The lips are pulled SO far up, not back but up, and I think that may be a key difference.

[brianamac]

This picture is hysterical. Between this and the most recent ones from Greg I am laughing my butt off.

 

And I'm right back to what I said in my first post - you just know a smile when you see one. It's so ridiculously silly.

 

Although looking at these photos, you do see a lot of gum. The lips are pulled SO far up, not back but up, and I think that may be a key difference.

Glad to hear this, too. Many posters noted to watch the body language, but in the original post my question was that there was no concerning body language... when we backed off, his mouth relaxed and covered his teeth a bit, but he continued to lay on his back/side looking for belly pets.

Until we know him much better, we might just back off when he does this to be safe.

However, given the relaxed pose and lack of body language to indicate we were upsetting him, I am going to assume it was some sort of smile. Having seen him snarl and bare teeth at us in the past, this certainly looked different... like Greg's photo. It was a big teeth and gum show rather than the usual twitchy lip showing the canines.

If/when he does it again I will try and snap a photo. Either way we will try and watch for further signals.

Thanks for all the help and would love to see more pictures if anyone wants to share. The smiles certainly like unique on different dogs!

[silverfish]

This one is priceless!!

Glad to hear this, too. Many posters noted to watch the body language, but in the original post my question was that there was no concerning body language... when we backed off, his mouth relaxed and covered his teeth a bit, but he continued to lay on his back/side looking for belly pets.

Until we know him much better, we might just back off when he does this to be safe.

Good idea, if he's a new dog, to be cautious. Though it does sound from your description that you may have a smiler - lucky you! They are a joy.

If/when he does it again I will try and snap a photo. Either way we will try and watch for further signals.

Thanks for all the help and would love to see more pictures if anyone wants to share. The smiles certainly like unique on different dogs!

It would be great to see photos!

 

They do look different on different dogs, it's true, but the basic facial signals are the same, though in different degrees. You can clearly see, in all these smile pictures, the lack of the tell-tale open 'C' shape at the corners of the mouth (even with Brindle's dog's exaggerated smile, there's a clear pointy bit there), the fact that the lips are being pulled up by the nose, and the lack of wrinkling in the whisker area. If you compare the wrinkling along the top of the snout in Jjng's pictures and greg1229's pictures you may be able to tell the difference .. however, there is hardly EVER time with either a snarl or a smile to wonder where the wrinkles are and what they mean. You have to just know what you're seeing ... and a lot of the time for less experienced people especially, it will be just that lack of concerning body language plus the presence of other, positive signs, like soliciting for more petting.

 

From what you've said, I don't think you have anything to worry about, but you're right, till you know him better, best to be cautious!

Edited January 8, 2013 by silverfish

[silverfish]

Oh .. there's one more thing I should mention, because nobody has.

 

A true dog smile - that is, the dog's true equivalent to a person smiling simply because they're generally happy - is usually described by dog behaviourists as the simple, open-mouthed, tongue-lolling, bright-eyed, alert, happy face.

 

 

The smiles we're all talking about here are different. They seem to be an extension of submissive behaviour - a kind of exaggerated submissive behaviour - developed to communicate a very positive, happy interaction with human beings. In all my life and all my dealings with dogs, I have never (yet) seen it given to another dog. It's quite unique in that, I think.

 

I'd be MOST interested to hear from anyone who's seen a dog smiling in this way to another dog! Bring it on!!

[racindog]

Minny would smile for belly rubs when he was laying down. In fact it was really the only time he would. Put a muzzle on Boo and belly rub then if you want to be sure. You can go from there. Either he'll keep smiling or he'll snark but you'll be safe and have your answer either way. Sounds like to me he is smiling and will be a wonderful guy to love up with. Minny and I would even "knit" (little love nips) each other at such times. We both loved it-it was just a fun way to express love-...I miss it so now.

Don't be afraid of that muzzle with a new houndie till you all get to know each other. Just putting it on them sometimes changes their behavior for the better. Later when you get to know each other it probably won't be necessary. If he was my guy I'd put the muzzle on him and handle his feet. He would learn right from the gitgo his feet were mine -so to speak. Its important that you establish your position as his leader IMO. Now if he had a genuine mental problem about it I of course would back off but the overwhelming majority of the time they just decide they want they want. Probably had his toenails quicked to often so who could blame him -so for heaven sakes be understanding. But you've still got to be the leader for his well being. Minny was actually bounced from his first home because they let him run the show and take control of things(like the sofa). They never realized the piece of heaven they lost when they returned him. Intelligent dogs seem to be overly involved in this kind of thing, And give Boo LOTS of time. It takes TIME to build the special relationship that you can have with such a fine hound. Smiling for belly rubs sounds like a special hound to me. You're lucky to have one like that IMO.

[NeylasMom]

Knew there was no chance I'd be successful capturing the smile on camera so I decided to try for video when I got home from work today. It's in the thread I started in C&F.

[Guest zombrie]

Late to this, but here is a video of my last foster, Mama Dotty. She was always smiling! If you said anything in an excitable way, she would smile

 

Here is my boy Doolin smiling

 

 

A had another foster who smiled, but never got it on camera.
I've noticed with the dogs I've had that smiled almost always do the lip licking (like in Rachel's post) and they move their heads around a lot and slowly air snap. I haven't seen much actual snarling, but it seems that they freeze up like a statue, whereas when they are smiling they move around a lot

Edited January 9, 2013 by zombrie

[a_daerr]

Late to this, but here is a video of my last foster, Mama Dotty. She was always smiling! If you said anything in an excitable way, she would smile

 

Here is my boy Doolin smiling

 

 

A had another foster who smiled, but never got it on camera.

I've noticed with the dogs I've had that smiled almost always do the lip licking (like in Rachel's post) and they move their heads around a lot and slowly air snap. I haven't seen much actual snarling, but it seems that they freeze up like a statue, whereas when they are smiling they move around a lot

 

That video was the first time I ever saw a greyhound smile. I love it! Dotty seemed like such a dear. I hope she's still doing well.

[Guest BlackandTan]

Here's a smile:

 

 

Like above whenever I have seen a Grey smile the tongue is always involved like that. Usually with bowing.. At the kennel there are 3 dogs that smile and its always when they are excited.. However if mine at home have a treat that they really like they will show teeth and not the smiling kind...

 

Late to this, but here is a video of my last foster, Mama Dotty. She was always smiling! If you said anything in an excitable way, she would smile

 

Here is my boy Doolin smiling

 

 

A had another foster who smiled, but never got it on camera.

I've noticed with the dogs I've had that smiled almost always do the lip licking (like in Rachel's post) and they move their heads around a lot and slowly air snap. I haven't seen much actual snarling, but it seems that they freeze up like a statue, whereas when they are smiling they move around a lot

Thanks Brie! I just realized that I miss that big boy!

[robinw]

I think it would be situational. Treasure, and Phoenix before her, smiled with their tails wagging and during play.

[Guest brandi007]

I had an adopter ask me this. He adopted the single most submissive greyhound I've ever had the pleasure of bringing to Canada. Gaston was a big 80lb, light fawn, 18 month old puppy with the sweetest heart but was sooooo submissive. This guy would roll onto his back and show you his belly if you so much as touched him. He was always walking around with his head low and eyes averted - such a doll though.

He ended up being crated because he had horrific separation anxiety and the adopter emailed me one day asking what he should do as he was scared of Gaston because every time he'd come home he'd bare all of his teeth at his dad when he tried to let him out of the crate.

This completely floored me! Not Gaston! He's such a wuss I think if a fly landed on him he'd roll over on his back in submission. It occurred to me that he might actually be smiling which is a submissive gesture in itself but was scared to tell him this because Gaston might really be warning his dad not to enter and I didn't want to be responsible for his owner ignoring this warning and getting bitten - I couldn't go see myself as they lived 3 hours away.

 

I told him to watch for other signs - is he growling? Is he staring intensely at you? Is he stiff with the fur on his shoulders raised? With a negative on all of these and a better explanation of the behavior we deduced he was smiling. He'd crawl towards his dad, head down, looking up at him with his full toothy grin.

 

I think the easiest way to tell if it's a smile or a warning is to watch the rest of your dogs body language, dogs usually give multiple signs that they're uncomfortable and if you know them they're pretty easy to spot

[silverfish]

the adopter emailed me one day asking what he should do as he was scared of Gaston because every time he'd come home he'd bare all of his teeth at his dad when he tried to let him out of the crate.

This completely floored me! Not Gaston! He's such a wuss I think if a fly landed on him he'd roll over on his back in submission. It occurred to me that he might actually be smiling which is a submissive gesture in itself

 

Awwwwww! What a sweetheart! I'm so glad you were able to figure it out!

 

These new pictures of smiling dogs are priceless!! Doolin! :wub:

[Guest brandi007]

Awwwwww! What a sweetheart! I'm so glad you were able to figure it out!

Yeah' he's a pretty big suck-face. Loved the big goof! He was over 80lbs to boot!

 

His adoption photo says it all - his dad is so amazing though and has worked with him on all his issues. He ended up adopting another dog through our organization to help Gaston build some confidence, a really confident super outgoing black guy.

 

Here he is

 

[silverfish]

Yeah' he's a pretty big suck-face. Loved the big goof! He was over 80lbs to boot!

 

Here he is

 

 

Oooh, he's beautiful! Looks quite a lot like Sid!

 

That guy sounds great! Wish some of the adopters who returned so many here this year were more like him.

 

Edited to add: DH just walked by, peered at the screen and said 'has someone doctored his leg in?' - he really thought it was Sid!! Sid weighs 33kg (73 pounds) with a missing rear leg, and his vet said the other day he must've been over 35kg with it, which brings him into the same weight range too. Love to know what his racing name was!

Edited January 10, 2013 by silverfish

[krissy]

Does anyone mind if I use some of these photos in a presentation? I am starting a class at my clinic (today is for my staff, but in future for clients) about dog behaviour, body language, and how to train them for basic medical procedures such as nail trimming, brushing teeth, etc. I have filled my presentation with staged photos of my own dogs (peanut butter to get a lip lick, etc) but neither of my dogs smiles. I would be very grateful if I could use some of these images for my powerpoint presentation. I am happy to give credit to the owner of the dog and/or photographer.

 

Thanks!

[Guest Amber]

Oh .. there's one more thing I should mention, because nobody has.A true dog smile - that is, the dog's true equivalent to a person smiling simply because they're generally happy - is usually described by dog behaviourists as the simple, open-mouthed, tongue-lolling, bright-eyed, alert, happy face.The smiles we're all talking about here are different. They seem to be an extension of submissive behaviour - a kind of exaggerated submissive behaviour - developed to communicate a very positive, happy interaction with human beings. In all my life and all my dealings with dogs, I have never (yet) seen it given to another dog. It's quite unique in that, I think.I'd be MOST interested to hear from anyone who's seen a dog smiling in this way to another dog! Bring it on!!

i used to sometimes pass a woman with a flatcoat who 'smiled' at other dogs, she was keen to point out that her dog wasn't snarling but grinning. I think probably a submissive grin, i only ever met her along a narrow path by the river, head on meetings which can be a bit uncomfortable for all but the most confident and relaxed dogs. I doubt it grinned at dogs it knew well. The rest of its comms was neutral, no stiffness or posturing. It's chops looked like the pics Greg posted.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Amber

[Brandiandwe]

Late to this, but Brandi has also recently started smiling with her mouth closed. The back of her mouth turns up, and it happens when she's asking for pats or really enjoying herself being cuddled.

[Guest jenmm]

I miss my smilers.

 

Ross, Hines, and Yankee would smile on command. They smiled when they were excited and happy.

[scullysmum]

When I read topics like this I so wish that I had videoed Miss Sadi having one of her nightly "Grumble sessions" with DH, the body language said she was about to rip him to pieces....she never did, it was just fun.

 

What I am trying to say is that although many of the replies have given helpful clues as to the difference between smiling and snarling, but the only way you really know is if you know your dog/s.....this is obviously tricky to gauge if your dog is new to you, so I would just say always be careful, but don't let it stop you interacting with your dog, mostly they mean us no harm at all but as we don't speak the same language sometimes things get lost in translation. Follow your gut feeling and don't be too upset if sometimes there are misunderstandings.

[XTRAWLD]

You know, Ryder grumbles when I'm giving him a neck/ear/head massage when he's napping, and he dozes off. I could be rubbing him as he's falling asleep and he's grumbling for 5 minutes. I'm having a hard time figuring out if he likes it or not, because sometimes his head is resting on my stomach and not facing me when I do it so I can't see his face and expression. I always wonder if he's about to tear me a new one or is thoroughly enjoying it, so I often stop in fear that he'll strike me dead in my bed at 11pm. I don't think he ever would, and I'd like to think he likes it, but even if you know your dog.....you can't be sure. Well at least I can't.

Edited April 17, 2015 by XTRAWLD

[scullysmum]

You know, Ryder grumbles when I'm giving him a neck/ear/head massage when he's napping, and he dozes off. I could be rubbing him as he's falling asleep and he's grumbling for 5 minutes. I'm having a hard time figuring out if he likes it or not, because sometimes his head is resting on my stomach and not facing me when I do it so I can't see his face and expression. I always wonder if he's about to tear me a new one or is thoroughly enjoying it, so I often stop in fear that he'll strike me dead in my bed at 11pm. I don't think he ever would, and I'd like to think he likes it, but even if you know your dog.....you can't be sure. Well at least I can't.

I don't know if you have ever seen your dog catch live prey, if you have not then you cannot truly understand the intensity of a dog in " kill" mode.... This may be distasteful to many here but there is a raft of difference between the aggression we witness in "play" and the "real" thing.....as I said before, the vast majority of the time our dogs mean us no harm, we just have to learn to read them, it is like a dance,

[GreyhndHomecare]

Thank you for this classic thread!

I just published an article on greyhound grins, and this was an essential reference.  I added a link to it.  Even 8 years later, I think this thread still saves new owners a lot of anxiety.

For anyone who wants to see the article, here's a link.  I never realized what a smiley girl my Lily is, until I went through my phone to find examples!

https://greyhoundhomecare.com/greyhound-grin-vs-snarl-how-to-tell-safely-5-photos/

Gail