Worms - That Won't Go Away!

[Guest Playful_Grey]

Kenzie is 3 & been with me now for a year (most wonderful year) - for most of this year she has been on either Panacure, Nemex or Dronatol Plus and is still testing positive for hooks. Got rid of the round ones but not the hooks. Has anyone else experienced this? If so what worked for you?

 

I very much want to bring another grey into our home but am concerned. I live in an apt. so she is walked different routes. I do have indoor cats & litter boxes are downstairs. She hates the stairs & won't go down them - even for a treat. Smile. Would you be afraid to bring in another grey?

[Brindles]

What is your worming schedule? Hooks have a 21 day life cycle and you really have to stay on top of them to get rid of them.

[GreyTzu]

What is your worming schedule? Hooks have a 21 day life cycle and you really have to stay on top of them to get rid of them.

 

 

 

Yup.

 

I wormed the literal crap out of Danger until I got the hooks under control.

[tbhounds]

Strongid--- 0ne ml/10lbs--de-worm once a week for 6 weeks. It's a protocol that we use at our clinic and its very effective.

[Guest Playful_Grey]

Currently she is in the middle of taking Nemex for a 60 lb dog (she was 55lbs - now 53.2). It's a dose every 2 weeks for 12 doses if that makes sense. We tested after 4 weeks and the eggs count increased.

[GreyTzu]

Drontal Plus from AU. is what I used. Dose on Monday and Thursday, Tuesday and Friday, Wednesday and Sunday. And on the next Tuesday ,he got his heartguard pill. And the following Monday he got another does of Drontal Plus. No problems since.

[Guest Playful_Grey]

The poor girl has been on Drontal Plus - a few rounds of Panacure and now on Nemex since May. I worry about the amount of meds she's been on but she is active and seems fine. I just want these darn things to be gone. Do you feel it's irresponsible of me to bring another greyhound into the household at this time?

[Guest Playful_Grey]

Thank you btw... I am encouraged that staying on top of them like we have been is necessary. Something I forgot to ask is while I pick up her poo right away, I worry she is re-infesting herself and there are only so many places to take her to do her business. Was wondering if you have heard or or used a treatment for the ground? I've not found anything yet, but am looking. Do the worms live long outside the body? No other dogs in the neighborhood seem to have a problem. I've asked 5-7 people we see regularly and they have all tested clean which amazes me.

[Guest FinnsMom]

Worms are becoming resistant to medications. I add 1 tbsp of Diatomaceous Earth food grade to my boy's breakfast and have no plans to stop. It's a natural way to keep the worms away.

[JJNg]

Some dogs do tend to have persistent worm infestations, but I just wanted to throw out another possibility. Does your vet clinic do their own fecal exams or are they sending them out to a reference lab? I once saw a case on second opinion of a dog who kept coming up positive for hookworms. On the fecal the hookworm eggs didn't quite look right, so I sent it off to the outside lab, and they confirmed that they were actually mite eggs as I suspected. Mite eggs can look pretty similar to hookworm eggs, and grain mites/eggs can be found in some dry dog foods. A less experienced clinic technician or assistant might not recognize the difference, but an outside lab would definitely be able to.

 

Lots of good advice already for persistent hookworms. I was wondering what heartworm preventative you're using as that can also help with hookworm control. Also, if you're using the Nemex label dose, that's about 1/2 the dose that most vets use. Nemex is the OTC pyrantel product, which is much less concentrated. Using it at the label dose gives you about 5 mg/kg. Most vets use the more concentrated large animal product (Strongid-T) and dose it at 1 cc per 10 lbs, which is about 11 mg/kg (which is the dose tbhounds mentioned).

 

Especially since you live in an apartment and pick up after your dog, I don't think it would be irresponsible to add another greyhound at this point.

[Guest Playful_Grey]

At first we used Tri-Heart & K9 Advantix II we just switched to Revolution. You know I plan on calling the vet and asking for Strongid.

[JJNg]

Revolution doesn't cover intestinal parasites in dogs, so it's not going to help with the worm situation. I'm not a fan of Revolution for dogs for this reason. I'd personally go back to an oral heartworm preventative such as Trifexis or Heartgard Plus (or any of it's generic equivalents, but make sure it's the "Plus").

[CharliesDad]

Hi all!

 

I'm planning to be adopted by a new grey on Nov 17 (Saturday)!! Yay!

 

Our adoption coordinator plans to give him/her Capstar at the kennel prior to our drive home (about 4 hours), and then I planned to bathe the dog with Adams Flea and Tick upon arrival back at the house.

 

I have a vet appt on Monday and am debating what worm and flea prevention med to give but am leaning towards Trifexis even though there seem to be SOME bad reports out there on the web about Trifexis. Does the forum have any further experience with this medication to report? Does Saturday- Capstar + Flea Shampoo then Monday - Trifexis + another vaccine that the vet may recommend = too much medication?

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

 

CD

 

PS My vet proposed as an alternative to Trifexis: "Another option would be Revolution, although it doesn't kill hookworms or whipworms very well. We could combine it with Panacur (fenbendazole) once monthly, if you'd like. BTW, Revolution kills all stages of the flea life cycle."

Edited November 13, 2012 by CharliesDad

[dante2zoe]

I have no advice for you about the amount of medication. However, I put my newest addition on Trifexis because he had a case of hooks and I am paranoid. I am also treating the whole crew for hooks using the Strongid protocol mentioned here.

 

That being said, congrats on your new addition! I am so very happy for you. Adding a new hound has helped me move forward from losing two close together. Made me focus on what I have and what I need to do instead of what I lost. I hope yours can help your heart heal as Brady has mine.

[JJNg]

You can find bad reports about any medication on the web. Nothing is 100% safe. I've used and prescribed Comfortis/Trifexis for a number of greyhounds, including my own and fosters, with no problems. There's the rare dog (any breed or mix, not just greyhounds) that can't tolerate it for whatever reason, but the most common side effect is GI upset which is usually mild and resolves on its own without need for treatment.

 

There's really no reason to bathe with flea and tick shampoo, especially if he's getting Capstar. Capstar is much more effective at killing fleas than any shampoo. And is there a reason you think he might have ticks? The safest and most effective way to get rid of ticks is to physically pull them off. If he does have attached ticks, flea/tick shampoo is not going to kill them.

 

If he does get vaccinated, I would wait a day or two before giving or applying any new product so that if there's a reaction, you'll know which one caused it.

 

I'd much prefer Trifexis over Revolution. I'm not a fan of topical heartworm preventation as I feel there is more room for error in application and absorption. And Trifexis is much more effective against both intestinal parasites and fleas than Revolution is. It's not true that Revolution "kills all stages of the flea life cycle". It only kills adult fleas and prevents flea eggs from hatching. While Trifexis only kills adult fleas, it kills them before they ever get a chance to lay eggs, so I feel it's just as effective at breaking the cycle.

[CharliesDad]

Thank you, dante2zoe and JJNg for your helpful feedback!

 

I got adopted by Strider (my new name for him) (KB's Skipper/ former call name Fudge) at Northern Greyhound Adoptions in St. Alban's, Vermont this past Saturday! Yay!

 

His medical confirmed that he's healthy except for hookworm eggs in his stool sample. He got a dose of Revolution yesterday and we started him on oral suspension Panacur, 10ml 2x daily for 5 days. We will test his stool again in a month.

 

I may use Trifexis in the future.

 

Thanks again for your suggestions and all the best to everyone with your greyt greys!

 

CD

[CharliesDad]

Hello Board,

 

I've been studying our board re hookworm. Apart from several useful posts in this thread, I found these posts in other threads helpful:

 

Heartgard Plus protects against roundworm and hookworm. Interceptor protects against roundworm, hookworm and whipworm. That being said, no monthly protection is 100% foolproof. Your dog may have eaten a dead animal full of worms, stool from another dog that was full of larve, etc.

 

My Houdini is currently battling hookworm. She caught it before she came to live with me.

 

This is what I am doing:

I started with Panacur C- once a day for three days in a row. I will repeat every three weeks until she has had three 'rounds'. (Some people say that if the level of infection is high dose for 5 days in a row.) Then I will wait two weeks after last treatment and have her stool rechecked. If negative, I will wait three weeks and test again (unless of course I see symptoms.) If her fecal test is positive or symptoms come back then I will repeat a treatment program but try Drontal Plus for the second series. Both Panacur and Drontal cover hookworm, roundworm, tapeworm and whipworm.

 

To prevent your dog from 'reinfecting' herself I covered the furniture and car seats (anywhere dog sits) with throws. I washed bedding, throws etc. every few days with hot water. If you have a dog run that has cement, stone etc. - wash with bleach. After each potty walk etc. I wipe her anal and back of tail area with baby wipes to remove any larvae, etc. (That way they do not re-infect themselves when they lick.)

 

As for the yard, try this:

http://www.gardengui...-treatment.html

 

I hope this helps

 

and

 

Been there and done that. Scott had a terrible case when he came, they are tough to get rid of and often take several rounds of meds to get them under control. I did a lot of research and found Panacur to be the best for hook and whip. Although other medications are labeled for use with hook and whip the others lack the main active ingredient that works best for hooks and whips. Fenbendazole. Recommended doasage is 3 times, 3weeks apart over a period of 9 weeks. Then retest a stool sample, although you can get a negative test and still have the worms. The interceptor will help keep any remaining worms from reproducing, but won't kill adult worms. The eggs hang out in the stomach and at a certain age gravitate to the intestines, the meds work in the intestines and the first round will not necessarily kill the larvae in the stomach or the young worms in the small intestines who are traveling to their preferred 'home'. Also, the eggs can survive in your yard/dirt for years, only to be ingested down the road and reinfect your dog. My research also reccomended Interceptor be given year round for life to keep them at bay. It was a long road with Scott and many rounds of meds to finally get them under control. If you have other dogs they all should be treated at the same time, picking up stool in the yard promptly will help minimize infecting the soil further.

 

Good Luck and keep working at it, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

 

Here's my plan:

• Confirm that my vet plans a second round of treatment with Panacur or Drontal-Plus even if the stool sample comes back negative.
  
• In light of absence of Interceptor, ask my vet when it will be safe for Strider to go on Trifexis (He was dosed with Revolution on Nov 19)
  
• Dose with Trifexis and see how he reacts. He doesn't seem to have a sensititve digestive system, so I think there's a good chance he won't throw it up.
  
• Wash bedding with bleach and pour bleach mixture on areas where I picked up his poop. (We didn't get freezing temps here last night).
  
• Wipe his butt after he does a BM -- and make sure I dispose of wipe and wash my hands carefully!
  

I welcome your feedback and I'll keep you posted about results.

 

BTW, he's settling into his new home very well. He's a beautful boy! Has even let me brush his teeth after only 4 days with me!!!

 

CD

[Guest mld]

Best of luck, keep us posted! We just finished our boys second deworming with Panacur for five days.

[CharliesDad]

Hi all,

 

Strider (KB's Skipper/ former call name Fudge) is settling in really well. I mean, REALLY WELL! Home alone for 3.5 hours. Teeth brushing. Wears winter boots. Eating well. BM's good. Socializes well with with humans and canines. I'm sooo blessed!

 

A former dog owner gave my vet their unused Inteceptor, and my vet passed it onto me at no cost, for which I am VERY grateful.

 

Here's the hookworm treatment protocol we're considering:

 

2 x 10 ml doses of Panacur for five days Nov 19 - 24 (now completed)

Interceptor every two weeks starting Dec 8 (i.e. 2 weeks after Nov 24) then Dec 22, Jan 5, Jan 19 and Feb 1.

Retest fecal 2 weeks later.

 

This protocol is suggested as a way to manage "larval leak" phenomenon which may occur with hookworm infestations.

 

http://www.vetauctio...i/gi-p1-19.html

"Larval leak" occurs when some larvae in hypobiosis are activated and make their way into the intestine. Activated larvae can then follow one of two pathways:

• Larvae can migrate directly to the intestine where they will reach maturity.
  
• Larvae can enter the circulatory system and travel to the lungs, where they escape into the alveolar space. Larvae then migrate up to the trachea, are coughed up and swallowed by the pet, and travel to the intestines where they reach maturity (tracheal migration)."
  

 

One concern is that he was started on Revolution for heartworm and fleas on Nov 19 (at that time we had no Interceptor or Sentinel available). Vet says he needs at least 2 more doses of Revolution to deal with possible fleas, since he was living in a kennel for 9 mos. Can he tolerate a dose of Revolution approximately 30 and 60 days after Nov 19 along with the the Interceptor every two weeks? Is medicating at the same or similar times with milbemycin (Interceptor) and selamectin (Revolution) contraindicated?

 

Thanks for any feedback.

 

CD

Edited December 1, 2012 by CharliesDad

[dante2zoe]

I have no further advice for you. We are following the Strongid once a week for 6 weeks protocol. Thankfully, only two more weeks to go! It makes them all quite loose for a day or so afterwards. They like the flavor, though, so administering it is very easy.

 

But, I am very excited to hear that Strider is settling in well for you! Now, you know the rules! Where are the pictures? Congrats.

 

Cindy

[JJNg]

One concern is that he was started on Revolution for heartworm and fleas on Nov 19 (at that time we had no Interceptor or Sentinel available). Vet says he needs at least 2 more doses of Revolution to deal with possible fleas, since he was living in a kennel for 9 mos. Can he tolerate a dose of Revolution approximately 30 and 60 days after Nov 19 along with the the Interceptor every two weeks? Is medicating at the same or similar times with milbemycin (Interceptor) and selamectin (Revolution) contraindicated?

 

Milbemycin and selamectin are ok to use together, but I'm wondering why your vet is recommending Revolution for fleas? I'm also not sure I understand what the significance is of him living in a kennel for 9 months? Did he have fleas and does he still have them? Do you have a flea infestation in your house?

[CharliesDad]

I have no further advice for you. We are following the Strongid once a week for 6 weeks protocol. Thankfully, only two more weeks to go! It makes them all quite loose for a day or so afterwards. They like the flavor, though, so administering it is very easy.

 

But, I am very excited to hear that Strider is settling in well for you! Now, you know the rules! Where are the pictures? Congrats.

 

Cindy

 

Thanks for your help, Cindy. Sorry about the pics! I have had some trouble uploading. I will try again!

[CharliesDad]

One concern is that he was started on Revolution for heartworm and fleas on Nov 19 (at that time we had no Interceptor or Sentinel available). Vet says he needs at least 2 more doses of Revolution to deal with possible fleas, since he was living in a kennel for 9 mos. Can he tolerate a dose of Revolution approximately 30 and 60 days after Nov 19 along with the the Interceptor every two weeks? Is medicating at the same or similar times with milbemycin (Interceptor) and selamectin (Revolution) contraindicated?

 

Milbemycin and selamectin are ok to use together, but I'm wondering why your vet is recommending Revolution for fleas? I'm also not sure I understand what the significance is of him living in a kennel for 9 months? Did he have fleas and does he still have them? Do you have a flea infestation in your house?

 

Thanks for your help, Dr. Jennifer! I will pass on your view re milbemycin and selamectin. It is similar to the feedback another vet emailed to me.

 

Re fleas: from what I understand from my vet, she is concerned that Strider may still have fleas at some life-cycle stage in his body. She feels it's likely he has fleas because he lived from March - November in a greyhound adoption kennel with a lot of new greyhound arrivals every week/few weeks. He was given a Capstar on Nov 17 and a dose of Revolution was applied to his skin on Nov 19 (I know you've stated your preference for Trifexis over topical, but my vet wasn't familiar with Trifexis and I wanted to go with a better-known product). Our current plan is to separate the Revolution from the Interceptor dose by 5-7 days.

 

Would you say that his kennel stay has not make it likely that he has fleas or ever had fleas? Do you have any other input re flea treatment? Or maybe that's for another thread.

 

I will also mention to my vet your other helpful input above as we consider our next steps:

Some dogs do tend to have persistent worm infestations, but I just wanted to throw out another possibility. Does your vet clinic do their own fecal exams or are they sending them out to a reference lab? I once saw a case on second opinion of a dog who kept coming up positive for hookworms. On the fecal the hookworm eggs didn't quite look right, so I sent it off to the outside lab, and they confirmed that they were actually mite eggs as I suspected. Mite eggs can look pretty similar to hookworm eggs, and grain mites/eggs can be found in some dry dog foods. A less experienced clinic technician or assistant might not recognize the difference, but an outside lab would definitely be able to.

 

... Nemex is the OTC pyrantel product, which is much less concentrated. Using it at the label dose gives you about 5 mg/kg. Most vets use the more concentrated large animal product (Strongid-T) and dose it at 1 cc per 10 lbs, which is about 11 mg/kg (which is the dose tbhounds mentioned "Strongid--- 0ne ml or cc/10lbs--de-worm once a week for 6 weeks. It's a protocol that we use at our clinic and its very effective.").

 

The main idea I get from this thread and elsewhere is to repeat dose over a few weeks. Different vets differ on the precise timing and the most effective medication. The view I am developing is to combine an dewormer like Strongid or Panacur with milbemycin (Interceptor) over about 6 weeks. While she has her own views, my vet is open to my researched opnions, which I appreciate.

 

Thanks again, Dr. J! Enjoy your wonderful four-legged friends! They look beautiful!

[JJNg]

Re fleas: from what I understand from my vet, she is concerned that Strider may still have fleas at some life-cycle stage in his body. She feels it's likely he has fleas because he lived from March - November in a greyhound adoption kennel with a lot of new greyhound arrivals every week/few weeks. He was given a Capstar on Nov 17 and a dose of Revolution was applied to his skin on Nov 19 (I know you've stated your preference for Trifexis over topical, but my vet wasn't familiar with Trifexis and I wanted to go with a better-known product). Our current plan is to separate the Revolution from the Interceptor dose by 5-7 days.

 

Would you say that his kennel stay has not make it likely that he has fleas or ever had fleas? Do you have any other input re flea treatment? Or maybe that's for another thread.

 

There is no stage in the flea life cycle that would be undetectable "in his body" so I'm really not sure I understand your vet's concern there. The only stage of the flea life cycle that is found on the dog is the adult flea. The eggs and other immature stages (larva, pupa), fall off the dog and develop in the environment. Then when the adult fleas emerge from the pupa (cocoon) in the environment, they jump back on the dog.

 

So if a dog is treated with Capstar (which kills all the adult fleas on the dog) before being moved into a flea-free environment, then you don't need to worry about fleas anymore, regardless of where he came from, or how long he was there. Now, if he came to your house before he was fully treated for fleas, and he had fleas on him that laid eggs into your house, then you could have developed a flea infestation in your home. Or if there is another source of fleas in your home or yard (such as from other pets, stray cats, or wildlife), then Strider could continue to pick up fleas from the environment.

 

So the pertinent questions are: does he actually have fleas now, and/or do you currently have a flea infestation in your house or yard? The time he spent at the greyhound adoption kennel and any fleas he was exposed to in the past really have no bearing on the current situation.

[CharliesDad]

Thanks to all for your replies.

 

Sorry, I didn't post follow-up. Maybe this will help others with worming. (SOrry I don't have time to read the other pertinent threads.)

 

Strider's last fecal was negative for hooks and tapes and he has been flea-free for the past 9 months that I've had him. He was dosed with Panacur for 5 days after he came back from the kennel, but it was not effective for his tapeworm or hookworm. WE redosed with Droncit, and this seemed to get rid of the tapes. For the hooks, we administered Interceptor every 2 weeks for 10 weeks (5 doses). We used Interceptor (no flea-med) because of the shortage of Sentinel. For this reason, my vet wanted him to have a flea-med, so we used REvolution once a month. We made sure that the various meds were administered 5 days or more apart to help avoid interaction probs. To keep the hooks that will always be hiding in his body under control as well as to deal with other parasites, he will be on Sentinel monthly for the rest of his life. From my research, I understand that Sentinel every 2 weeks for 2 months+ is key to killing hatching hookworms during the deworming phase.

 

I received third-party expert opinion by contacting http://www.capcvet.org/ (Companion Animal Parasite Council). It's possible that they have a bias based on funding from pharmaceutical sponsors, but I found the advice balanced and helpful.

 

Sorry it took me so long to post this follow-up. Good luck all with the deworming.

 

CD