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brindlebaby

Started Keppra For Seizures, Acting Weird

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Our Ava started having seizures in July (although she had some in the racing kennel before she retired in November/December 2011 - she's now had four separate seizure incidents which have required hospitalization each time. She just was released this afternoon after having two seizures on Wednesday morning at 4:10am. She had the first seizure at home and when she came to, we headed straight for the hospital (her last seizure episode was 24 days ago and she had 5 within an hour).

 

On the way to the hospital she whined off and on and paced during the whole ride (20-25 minutes), but no seizures. After the tech took her away, the doctor told us she had a violent grand mal during her examination. She's pretty banged up, some brusing and lots of cuts and scratches, so she's sore too.

 

Where we are at right now, they kept her phenobarbital at the same dose (2 tabs twice a day), but added in Keppra at the hospital. (She is now on 250mg every 8 hours). We're also going to start her on Potassium Bromine, but it won't be ready until Saturday afternoon.

 

The first dose of Keppra that I had planned on giving would of been at 11pm, because I wanted to get her on a schedule. I called the hospital to ask when her last dose was and it was 8am, so next dose should of been at 4pm. :unsure I went ahead and gave her the Keppra at 645pm. She is acting strange and I'm a little worried. (she was acting strange before I gave the Keppra (which is why I called to ask when she last had it), so I'm wondering if her behavior is because I was 2 hours and 45 minutes late with her next dose or because she just started the medication or ???)

 

She is pacing, a bit of whining and seems to be looking for something. I have let her out three times and she just stands in the yard with her nose in the air, smelling. She is doing the same thing in the house, has her nose up in the air smelling. (((I just now let her out again and she did finally pee!!)))

 

It was very warm in St. Louis today and now the temperature has dropped drastically, it's windy and rainy. I thought maybe she was smelling in the yard (with nose in the air) earlier because a storm was coming.

 

Ava's regular vet is working with the emergency hospital to get Ava's seizures under control and I have her cell number to call her if anything happens - so I do have a call in for her.

 

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has experienced the same behavior after starting Keppra. I just want to help her and she can't talk. :cry1

 

Thanks,

 

Kim & Ava

Edited by brindlebaby

Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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Update: She's sleeping on her bed!

 

Update again: Must of been a 10 minutes cat nap, now she's whiney and pacing again. :cry1

Edited by brindlebaby

Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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It's more than likely a reaction to the added medication. Once her body adjusts to it she should stop it. It's hard to watch, I know, but will be so worth it if you can gain some control of those seizures.


Judy, mom to Do Bee, Bandita, Angel and Gizmo

Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey

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It's more than likely a reaction to the added medication. Once her body adjusts to it she should stop it. It's hard to watch, I know, but will be so worth it if you can gain some control of those seizures.

 

Thank you Judy, that's exactly what I wanted to hear! :bighug As long as I know it's a normal reaction, we'll get through it.

 

She did get bedtime treats. I'm hoping she'll settle down once we're all in bed.


Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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Guest zombrie

Manny was on Keppra, he never had a reaction like that, but I can't see why that wouldn't be a side effect, like Judy said. I can say though when Manny had clusters, he was never "right" for a couple days afterwards.

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It's more than likely a reaction to the added medication. Once her body adjusts to it she should stop it. It's hard to watch, I know, but will be so worth it if you can gain some control of those seizures.

 

Thank you Judy, that's exactly what I wanted to hear! :bighug As long as I know it's a normal reaction, we'll get through it.

 

She did get bedtime treats. I'm hoping she'll settle down once we're all in bed.

 

Saints magic drug combination was phenobarbital and potassium bromide. Hopefully when you add the potassium bromide you will be as lucky as we were.


Judy, mom to Do Bee, Bandita, Angel and Gizmo

Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey

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When Minnie was first started on it, she was very very strange for a while, gradually improving over the course of a couple of weeks. The worst thing was the falls--she'd be standing in the kitchen, and suddenly hit the floor. She was also generally drunk/flat. For her, the restlessness/pacing seemed to be more a post-seizure behaviour.


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Manny was on Keppra, he never had a reaction like that, but I can't see why that wouldn't be a side effect, like Judy said. I can say though when Manny had clusters, he was never "right" for a couple days afterwards.

 

I wonder if maybe because I was 2 hours and 45 minutes late on her next dose?? :(

 

 

Saints magic drug combination was phenobarbital and potassium bromide. Hopefully when you add the potassium bromide you will be as lucky as we were.

 

That's reassuring to hear that it worked for Saint!!

 

Right now our plan for Ava (which is subject to change I guess ;)) is once she gets on the potassium bromide for a month or more, to gradually wean her off the Keppra. It's pricey, but by joining the Walgreens savings plan I got it down from $249.00 a month to $87.00 - which is better. The main reason I don't want her on it is because it needs to be given 3 times a day and since I work, I have to depend on somebody else to do it (which I don't want to do). I will if it's the only thing that keeps Ava seizure free though! :beatheart The Potassium Bromide isn't much cheaper at $62.00, but it's once (or is it twice?) a day?

 

 

KNOCK ON WOOD - Ava seems to have settled down. :hope

 

When Minnie was first started on it, she was very very strange for a while, gradually improving over the course of a couple of weeks. The worst thing was the falls--she'd be standing in the kitchen, and suddenly hit the floor. She was also generally drunk/flat. For her, the restlessness/pacing seemed to be more a post-seizure behaviour.

 

Oh gosh, that's awful about the falling! Maybe the restlessness/pacing/whining IS post-seizure behavior.

 

When Ava started on the Phenobarbital, she was kind of, just not herself. Not this most recent hospitalization, but the last two times she was hospitalizationed for seizures, they upped her Phenobarbital and I didn't notice a change at all. She was her old self the day she got home.

 

I hope Minnie's doing well now!

Edited by brindlebaby

Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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Noelle is only on phenobarb but at time does act like Ava if she has a hard seizure, it hasn't happened recently. I invite you to join the K9epleptics@yahoo.com. The are very supportive people on there that can give support & answer questions you have. As Judy said Ava should calm down as her body adjusts to the meds. Hugs to both of you.

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Guest zombrie

Keppra and Potassium Bromide is what kept Manny seizure free for 5 months, which we thought would never happen, on Keppra alone he had 5-12 seizures every 2 weeks. I must say that the Potassium Bromide made Manny uneasy and fall a lot too (he also had a broken leg so it made him even more unsteady)

I want to say that being a couple hours late on the dose wouldn't have that effect on her, may be a different story with a completely missed dose. But I'm not a doctor, I don't know!

 

Her behavior just could have been a result from the seizures, like I said, Manny would be like that for a day or two after his clusters.

I hope your girl is still settled!

Edited by zombrie

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The vet suggested keppra for Thunder but it's not possible for me to give 3 times a day, When Thunder started on phenobarb, he was different too. Passion was horrible on phenobarb the first month. She got better though. I'm still waiting for Thunder to get used to the meds.

 

Hope this helps control the seizures. Please keep posting what is going on. There are a lot of us dealing with seizure hounds.

 

:grouphug


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Kari and the pups.
Run free sweet Hana 9/21/08-9/12/10. Missing Sparks with every breath.
Passion 10/16/02-5/25/17

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Hoping Ava is better this morning.


Judy, mom to Do Bee, Bandita, Angel and Gizmo

Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey

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Quick note from my phone, Ava slept well!

 

I just called home and Ava's sleeping on her bed in our bedroom. Usually she's hanging out on the couch so she's probably really tired, I know I am!

 

Now with a clearer head this morning, I'm thinking her behavior was a seizure activity, with the constant nose up in the air smelling. I remember the day she came home from the hospital after her first seizures back in July, she had episodes with a blank stare, gritted teeth and excessive drooling and when she snapped out of it, she quickly followed me with her head raised and her nose smelling me.


Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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The e-vet told me that Thunder had a seizure where he just chomped his mouth open and shut. I never would have guessed that was a seizure.

I watch him like a hawk now but still unsure when or if he's having one unless it's a grand mal or focal since those are bad.


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Kari and the pups.
Run free sweet Hana 9/21/08-9/12/10. Missing Sparks with every breath.
Passion 10/16/02-5/25/17

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I know, it's maddening Kari! I've seen Ava turn her head to either side, like she is snapping at imaginary flies or does she just have an itch she can't reach? All four of her big seizure episodes have happened in the middle of the night, so I'm always on edge, paying we won't get woke up by that awful sound. :(


Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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A couple of Thunder's seizures happened when we were in bed (I wasn't sleeping, he was sleeping) and I thought he was just stretching. Now every time he stretches, my heart jumps.


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Kari and the pups.
Run free sweet Hana 9/21/08-9/12/10. Missing Sparks with every breath.
Passion 10/16/02-5/25/17

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Ava's seizures are very violent and so loud on a hardwood floor, every clunk on the floor nearly makes my heart stop! Time between seizure episodes have gotten shorter, going from 44 days to 32 days and now 24 days. First episode she had 3 seizures, second episode 4 seizures, next one 5 seizures and the last episode was only 2 seizures, but only because we headed straight to

the hospital and after the first seizure. She had the second seizure there, so they were able to start IVs, etc. and stop her from having more.

Edited by brindlebaby

Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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Rainey got TOTALLY whacky on Keppra, and whenever we upped her meds in general -- acted exactly the same way -- pacing, whining, acting like she had to sniff/investigate everything. It took a couple days for it to stop. She did have this same weird behavior at other times but we suspect it was from whatever was going on in her brain :(

 

Rainey was almost 10 when her seizures started -- how old is Ava? ETA I see she's almost 4.

 

BTW we tried Keppra first, then added Zonisamide, then finally had to resort to Phenobarb -- it really made her crazy so we added it only because the other 2 weren't controlling them for her. Also, try Costco for the meds, that's where we got ours.

Edited by RaineysMom

Kim, Bruce, Larry (PTL LaRoach) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It) - missing my sweet Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011) and Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Chester (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Can you describe them?

 

They sound like Thunders.

 

On Sept 26th, he had at least 10 in less then 24 hrs. The first one was while I was at work and it was so violent that he busted out of the wire crate.

The next one was at 6:30 pm when I was home. He was thumping on the floor in the other room so loud that I knew right away. He had 2 in a row. The first one, he just kicked and arched his head back. He foamed at the mouth. It didn't last long. Then he tried to get up but had another one right away. The 2nd was really bad. When he started to come out of it, he was trying to race around the dining room and was crashing into everything. When I tried to hold onto him, he growled/snarled at me and tried to bite me (he was muzzled). Then he had another one around 10pm, we were in bed. It started with him stretching and he screamed. Then he kicked his back legs like he was running in his sleep and foamed at the mouth. We left for the e-vet after that one. He had 7 more at the vet.

 

I get his drugs at Costco as well.

I now have him in a plastic crate for his safety.

I kinda want to put something on the top (like a plastic glass) so that if he has a seizure when I'm at work, the glass will tip over and that's how I will know he had one.


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Kari and the pups.
Run free sweet Hana 9/21/08-9/12/10. Missing Sparks with every breath.
Passion 10/16/02-5/25/17

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Ava's seizures are very violent and so loud on a hardwood floor, every clunk on the floor nearly makes my heart stop! Time between seizure episodes have gotten shorter, going from 44 days to 32 days and now 24 days. First episode she had 3 seizures, second episode 4 seizures, next one 5 seizures and the last episode was only 2 seizures, but only because we headed straight to

the hospital and after the first seizure. She had the second seizure there, so they were able to start IVs, etc. and stop her from having more.

 

Have they given you any valium suppositories to give to Ava when she starts to cluster? You can have them made at a compounding pharmacy. Once she's had a seizure and you see she's going to have another you can use the suppositories and give her an extra phenobarbital. This will usually stop the cluster before it really gets going. I had to give one of the kennel dogs 3 suppositories once to stop his cluster. By the time we got to the vet he was totally out but it stopped his seizures. This dog unfortunately was 10 years old and had a brain tumor. Ava is within the perfect age for idiopathic epilepsy.

 

It may take some time and a mix and match of drugs to find the right cocktail to get her under control but keep trying. It is so worth it in the end if you can find the right combination of drugs to get them under control.


Judy, mom to Do Bee, Bandita, Angel and Gizmo

Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey

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...

I kinda want to put something on the top (like a plastic glass) so that if he has a seizure when I'm at work, the glass will tip over and that's how I will know he had one.

 

Do you have poop bags that come in rolls? You could just stand a roll or two on end on the top of the kennel and use that as your seizure alarm.

 

And, in case you have multiple people giving meds or if you're likely to have trouble remembering whether you've given a dose: set out all three doses for the day first thing in the morning. If a dose is still waiting, you know you haven't given it. I've got two dogs taking meds: different pills are 1, 2, or 3 times a day. I've needed to work out a system. Sometimes I'll think, "Time for the pill." Ten minutes later, I'm wondering whether I gave the pill--or I just intended to give the pill. Keeping things straight the first few days was easy. After that, not so simple.

 

My sister's younger son was on liquid anti-seizure meds three times a day for a couple of years. She needed to know if the day care folks remembered to give him his meds, so she had three oral syringes. She drew up the right dose in all three syringes in the morning. Thomas went to school with a filled syringe inside a plastic bottle (school regulations: it had to have his name and all the prescription info). If Thomas came home with a full syringe, she knew he hadn't had his meds. (No use relying on Thomas to remember whether he'd taken the meds; the boy's middle name should have been Airhead.)


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And, in case you have multiple people giving meds or if you're likely to have trouble remembering whether you've given a dose: set out all three doses for the day first thing in the morning. If a dose is still waiting, you know you haven't given it. I've got two dogs taking meds: different pills are 1, 2, or 3 times a day. I've needed to work out a system. Sometimes I'll think, "Time for the pill." Ten minutes later, I'm wondering whether I gave the pill--or I just intended to give the pill. Keeping things straight the first few days was easy. After that, not so simple.

 

 

Go to your local Walgreen's and get a pill reminder box. That was invaluable with Rainey (and me! I use one too!). I had to get the GIANT size since she was on SO many meds. I would load each day with her full amount of med's for the day and I would know if she missed a dose if more than what should have been in there was in there. She was on Keppra 3 x day, pheno and zoni 2 x day as well as thyroid meds once a day. Plus she got a fish oil pill and 1/4 aspirin, thus the large pill box. She'd get her 1:30pm dose of Keppra right after I got home so that was easy (went in her lunch), the 5:30am with breakie and we'd set the timer on the stove for her 9:30 Keppra. Did the same with Nube's meds as well so we wouldn't forget a dose.

 

BTW giving her the late dose wouldn't cause the reaction you saw, it just would put her more at risk for a seizure. Timing is very important with these meds.


Kim, Bruce, Larry (PTL LaRoach) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It) - missing my sweet Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011) and Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Chester (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Rainey got TOTALLY whacky on Keppra, and whenever we upped her meds in general -- acted exactly the same way -- pacing, whining, acting like she had to sniff/investigate everything. It took a couple days for it to stop. She did have this same weird behavior at other times but we suspect it was from whatever was going on in her brain :(

 

Ava was better yesterday afternoon, just really laying around and kind of subdued. She seemed more like herself last night, stole a half thing of Greek yogurt off the counter and ate it in her crate and got in the litter box. ;) I was relieved to see it! I'm so sorry about Rainey, I can't imagine how hard that was. :bighug

________________________________________________

 

Can you describe them?

 

They sound like Thunders.

 

On Sept 26th, he had at least 10 in less then 24 hrs. The first one was while I was at work and it was so violent that he busted out of the wire crate.

The next one was at 6:30 pm when I was home. He was thumping on the floor in the other room so loud that I knew right away. He had 2 in a row. The first one, he just kicked and arched his head back. He foamed at the mouth. It didn't last long. Then he tried to get up but had another one right away. The 2nd was really bad. When he started to come out of it, he was trying to race around the dining room and was crashing into everything. When I tried to hold onto him, he growled/snarled at me and tried to bite me (he was muzzled). Then he had another one around 10pm, we were in bed. It started with him stretching and he screamed. Then he kicked his back legs like he was running in his sleep and foamed at the mouth. We left for the e-vet after that one. He had 7 more at the vet.

 

I get his drugs at Costco as well.

I now have him in a plastic crate for his safety.

I kinda want to put something on the top (like a plastic glass) so that if he has a seizure when I'm at work, the glass will tip over and that's how I will know he had one.

 

OMG Kari, how awful! I'm petrified to leave Ava alone!

 

When he had the seizure while you were at work, where/what was he doing when you got home and what kind of shape was he in?? Ava's seizures (she's had four different episodes, all have been in the middle of the night). They wake you up right away. They are loud and very violent. I noticed the last *episode*, she urinated during her first seizure, but I don't think she's done that before. It seems after the each seizure she just kind of lays there (less than a minute) and then gets up and just starts walking through the house very fast, as if she is searching for something. The first *episode*, I stupidly let her in the yard not realizing that she could have another one out there. I was out there with her and she went to the back gate, came towards me, backing up and arched her back and then fell into another violent seizure. She was on the stone walk and I was trying to shield her so she wouldn't get hurt. When she comes to she is racing again. It reminds me of those people you see on Cops that are high and have a lot of strength and no fear.

 

Trying to follow everyone's tips, not this past *episode*, but the third one, we have the rectal valium (2 syringes) and did it right away after the first seizure. Herman held her and I ran and got a small bit of vanilla ice cream that she ate. I put an ice pack on her lower back (read somewhere that it can stop seizures). She got up and walked into the kitchen and seemed like she wanted food. I didn't want to give her kibble, so gave her a small bit of canned food that Pixie has to have added to her kibble and she woofed it down. I'm thinking, ok, we got through this. Then she starts doing the searching again and I didn't want to let her in the yard just yet. She went to the back door sniffing, started to recoil backwards and went into another seizure. She was standing and I was trying to have her lay on her side. She ended up having 5 seizures that night, the next one was when I locked her in our bedroom and ran and got the car and her collar/leash and threw some clothes on. When I opened the door she had pooped and peed all over and poop was smeared everywhere. She had another seizure in the car and then the 5th one at the vet, right after her arrival.

 

This last seizure episode on Wednesday morning, we just headed to the hospital after her first seizure. She cried and paced in the car the whole way there and ended up having another seizure (which they called very violent) during examination. No more after that.

 

Ava is left alone very little. I don't know what would happen if we weren't home and she started having seizures. If she doesn't stop, can she die?? I can't imagine her being crated and after coming to, being so stressed and agitated, I imagine she would break through her crate too!

 

I'm at the point where I feel that each time Ava starts having a seizure, we just need to head to the hospital. I don't feel like they will stop if we don't get immediate medical help. It's very scary.

 

Thanks guys for the tip about Costco! I do have a Costco card so I will check out their prices. Offhand, does anyone remember how much the Keppra was?


Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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Have they given you any valium suppositories to give to Ava when she starts to cluster? You can have them made at a compounding pharmacy. Once she's had a seizure and you see she's going to have another you can use the suppositories and give her an extra phenobarbital. This will usually stop the cluster before it really gets going. I had to give one of the kennel dogs 3 suppositories once to stop his cluster. By the time we got to the vet he was totally out but it stopped his seizures. This dog unfortunately was 10 years old and had a brain tumor. Ava is within the perfect age for idiopathic epilepsy.

 

It may take some time and a mix and match of drugs to find the right cocktail to get her under control but keep trying. It is so worth it in the end if you can find the right combination of drugs to get them under control.

 

Judy, I didn't have the suppositories, I had syringes. Ahhh, I'm sure that's why they didn't do anything. (Can they mess up her heart rate any? I thought the vet mentioned something about her heart, so I said that's alright, I don't want it.) I think she had even talked about teaching me how to give phenobarbital by syringe, but maybe I'm dreaming that, because I haven't seen anyone else mention that!

 

I'm hoping Ava's is just the ideopathic epilepsy - she shows no signs of any other sort of brain issues. I can only find one neurologist locally and I don't know much about him or even if he's still in the area - I really don't want to travel to have her see one. I feel really comfortable with the staff at the emergency hospital, especially the doctor who called me on Thursday to give an update. They had a *conference* before she called to discuss the plans for Ava's treatment. They are working closely with our regular vet too, which I like.

 

Late this afternoon I picked up the potassium bromide and will start that in the morning so :clover hoping that works! I would like to get her off the Keppra and just have the potassium bromide and phenobarbital.

 

On a side note..... she has recently (in the last month or so) started eating her own poop :sick and will not stop even when called, you have to get right up on her. I try and remember to muzzle her, but even the muzzle comes back with poop on the outside. She's always looking for food on a good day and I think she's even hungrier on the phenobarbital. :brushteeth


Kim, (Herman), Pixie (NK Mary Ann), Kitten, Sammie, Darcy and Scout

Callie (Callie Walker), Ava (Lass Dance), July, Peanut, Kodi, Bailey, Kony, PJ, Scampie, Carlo & Casey waiting for us at the bridge

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