Training Classes. Frustrated.

[GeorgeofNE]

I'm sure there are good dog classes out there, but I've never felt they're useful for me.

 

You don't need classes. You just need to decide what you want to teach the dog, find a method that works for you and the dog, and be consistent.

 

My father taught me how to train a dog when I was 10 years old. It's not rocket science! There are lots and lots of good books (and some really bad ones!) and lots of trainers (both good ones and bad). Maybe try a private session with someone? Perhaps they can recommend someone at your vet's office? Then all you need is time and practice.

 

George isn't any good around non greyhounds, so I had to skip that "rule" my adoption group had, that I take group classes with him. I held my own classes!

 

I did find him rather frustrating as he is my first hound, but even George knows how to sit and lay down now! Stay is another matter...

[Guest grey_dreams]

Use really high-value treats, like boiled chicken liver or turkey breast cut into small pieces. Use a clicker. Start by just clicking to get her attention, when she looks at the clicker or you, treat. Get her used to the fact that when she hears that click, she gets a tasty treat. Do this for a couple/few days, only do short sessions of a couple/few minutes, but do a few sessions per day. When she understands the click/treat, then you can start capturing the behaviors you want. If you want to teach her down, wait until she lays down, then immediately click/treat. Do this a lot of times, just capturing what she is already doing (yes, you have to keep the clicker handy, I used to have it on a band hanging from my wrist). Once she's got that, then you start adding the word "Down" at the same time that you click. Eventually you can phase out the click and just use the word, and eventually you can phase out the treat most of the time, but you should still treat sometimes or use lower-value treats.

 

If she doesn't naturally sit, then it will take more work to teach her that. But there are a lot of natural behaviors that you can capture: Down, Wait, Place, Up, Other Side (for walking, to get her to move to your other side), Back, and a really important one, Kiss Me

 

Good luck!

[Guest amethyst]

There is already a lot of really good advice here. However, I'd like you to know that my 5 year old female has earned the AKC's CGC (Canine Good Citizen), Beginner Novice and we're currently working on a CD (Companion Dog) title.

I had no training experience when we started going to classes 2 years ago. Fortunately, we have access to great trainers nearby. Most people who are serious about training and earning titles choose breeds that are people focused so are easy to train like Border Collies, Aussies, Labs and Goldens, etc.... You have to convice a greyhound to want to work for you. Sighthounds are not easily trained by anyone and as a new trainer I didn't realize this at first. Now I take it as a challenge and my retired racing greyhound is competing against all those other "obedience breeds".

We train every day for a few minutes at a time (during walks) and go to the training yard once a week to work on exercises around other dogs. I use high value treats when there are a lot of distractions (examples are liver, peanut butter or chicken for example). Clickers work better than word markers because the special sound gets/holds their attention better; she hears my voice all the time. The click tells her to pay attention because a special treat is coming. Get good clicker training book by Karen Pryor or one of her students. You have to be consistent, train in small incremental steps, make sure to always end training with a success and never ever punish or use harsh corrections.

[NeylasMom]

There is already a lot of really good advice here. However, I'd like you to know that my 5 year old female has earned the AKC's CGC (Canine Good Citizen), Beginner Novice and we're currently working on a CD (Companion Dog) title.

Sidebar, but just wanted to say good for you!

[Guest lanielovesgreys]

Update: we went to class today again for the first time since the first one. The first week after, Laika had torn off her nail, the second week was an off week, the third week I was in Vegas.

 

So the past few weeks it's just been me and Laika and the links you all provided. Thank you. She's so close to going down on command. I say down, she does it in 7 seconds. A little too long, but one of these days she'll make the connection. And once she gets it, I think everything will be just a little easier. We practice for 5 minutes at a time, and it is super clear to me when she's done. She's only food motivated for that long. And it does not matter if the treats are high value (cooked chicken) or low value (her kibble). 5 minutes is it.

 

So today in class I was up front about that. Laika was so reactive I couldn't get her to do anything. She was excited about the pup in the next station, and could hear the dogs in the kennel nearby. We had a few successful commands and then I couldn't even get eye contact out of her. So I told the trainer that I don't want to confuse/frustrate and we'll just watch and work on it at home. I think I'll do this from here on out. I'll keep taking her, and try and work on her reactive-ness in class. Then do the training at home until she's more reliable. Then maybe push her to train in public. THEN maybe with other dogs nearby.

 

I'm frustrated that I spent the money. But I'll get something out of this. Even if it means embarrassing myself week after week. I know she's getting it, as she's doing it at home. It's just a lot to ask of her in a place like that.

 

I do plan on a detailed yelp review. Because it's bull** that she's not helping. She's just continuing to work the same commands with the labs. And she always grabs a dog to show us all as an example. And, shocker, she never picks the greyhound to try with. She'd be unsuccessful So ultimately I'm paying her to give me training ideas and to let my reactive dog in the same room as a group of other dogs. Oh, and to bite my tongue when she says "Well, she's never been asked to do anything before...". As if she's asked or knows anything about challenging dogs.

 

Sorry, I get a little rant-y on these days. I'm defensive, as I'd really like to think I'm a great grey-parent. And any "criticisms" make me want to jump all over a person. But I realize it's because I love my girls and work pretty hard to do what's right by them. So thanks for listening and offering suggestions in a kind way.

[krissy]

Oh, and to bite my tongue when she says "Well, she's never been asked to do anything before...". As if she's asked or knows anything about challenging dogs.

 

I agree with you that your trainer may not be helping you as much as she could be, but the statement that your dog has never been asked to do anything before is actually fairly accurate. Now, maybe she was saying it in a snide way, I don't know. But just as a statement, I wouldn't feel too offended by it because it is true. The retired racing greyhound has never been asked to do anything other than run. Your dog has never really been taught anything. The hardest part about training a retired racer is teaching them how to learn. Once they understand that you're golden. Summit is extremely well trained now. His newer "tricks" are taught in about 5-10 minutes. His first command, "down", took somewhere between 1 and 2 weeks for him to understand what I was asking. Sit was his second command. I would say that's a harder thing to get a greyhound to do, but he learned that faster than his down, simply because he knew that I was trying to get him to do something and he knew to try to figure out what that thing was.

 

I know it can be hard to deal with a trainer who maybe feels like our hounds are a little "slow". My old trainer was amazing. Loved her. During our first set of obedience classes though she had to be away for one class and had a substitute in to teach the class. They always did the same as you're describing, they'd borrow someone's dog to demonstrate the next lesson. Well, she borrowed Summit to show a front (come and sit right in front of you) with an around finish (dog walks around your right side, behind you and sits on your left ready to heel). She was holding a liver treat in one hand with Summit standing about 2 feet in front of her. She tells him to sit. He just stares at her. She asks him to sit again and he still just stares at her. So she hands me back the leash and tells me I need to work harder on his sit. I look her in the eye and say "Summit, sit". Down goes his butt.

 

 

You will find that even good trainers often don't get greyhounds. They haven't worked with many. While I more or less subscribe to the mantra that a greyhound is a dog first and a greyhound second, I do have a few things in training that I feel strongly about. The main one is that I don't ask for a down from a sit. Even the good trainers I've had have fought me on that one. I just smile politely and stick to my guns. Find a trainer who you overall agree with and like. That is important. But don't sweat the little things if they don't have much sighthound experience. Just smile politely, disagree politely if you feel like it, and take from the class the things you agree with and are comfortable with. You are never going to agree with EVERYTHING a trainer does. I watch both Dog Whisperer and At The End Of My Leash. I agree with some aspects and strongly disagree with others. I probably wouldn't go to a class taught by either of those trainers because there are some things that I would never use with my dog EVER, however I will watch their shows and some of their techniques are great and I keep them in mind.

 

Keep working with Laika. She may never be the kind of hound that really enjoys training but even if she doesn't become a super obedient dog it will help you to build a stronger relationship with her. Plus, with the more "challenging" breeds there is a really big sense of accomplishment that goes with seeing your hound do something that probably comes pretty easily to other breeds.

[Guest lanielovesgreys]

Oh, and to bite my tongue when she says "Well, she's never been asked to do anything before...". As if she's asked or knows anything about challenging dogs.

 

I agree with you that your trainer may not be helping you as much as she could be, but the statement that your dog has never been asked to do anything before is actually fairly accurate. Now, maybe she was saying it in a snide way, I don't know. But just as a statement, I wouldn't feel too offended by it because it is true.

 

It's not true though. It might be true for a greyhound right off the track, but I've had Laika for 4 years and there's many things I ask her to do daily. Get out of the kitchen, come to me when called, stay, wait, etc. It's offensive because she doesn't live in my home and makes this glaring assumption that I just let her do whatever she wants. That's what I meant by that.

[krissy]

It's not true though. It might be true for a greyhound right off the track, but I've had Laika for 4 years and there's many things I ask her to do daily. Get out of the kitchen, come to me when called, stay, wait, etc. It's offensive because she doesn't live in my home and makes this glaring assumption that I just let her do whatever she wants. That's what I meant by that.

 

Ah sorry, my mistake, I thought you had just gotten her recently.

 

Still if you've never formally trained her to do commands it is a little bit of a different kind of learning than what a dog just picks up ("Lets go for a walk", "want to go for a car ride?", "Want your dinner?".

 

Again, as I said, I don't know the context or tone of what the trainer said. She may very well have said it in an offensive tone. I'm just saying that if Laika has never been through formal obedience training it is a very different kind of learning and she may very well have never been asked to do things in that sort of way. It's not saying that you never ask anything of her. When I got Summit he was asked to come to me, to get off the furniture, to go in his crate when told, to wait at the doors. But teaching him to lay down was completely different. I had never really asked him to do something where I really had to show him what to do.

 

Regardless, what it comes down to is that you don't like the trainer. And if that's the case then just move on to another until you find one you are happy with.

[NeylasMom]

So I've been following along and reading the recent update and responses and what I'm hearing is that you left the first class very dissatisfied. After some time away, you went back to class and told your trainer flat out that Laika can only work for short periods and that you would prefer to just watch and observe for hte most part and practice at home. But you're upset that the trainer continues to work wtih the rest of the students on the class material and leave you to do just that?

 

Don't get me wrong, I said before and I still agree that this class/trainer may not be a good fit for you guys, and in an ideal world she would take initiative to help you figure out how to work better in the class, but it doesn't sound to me like you've expressed to the trainer your true concerns or what you would like from her in order to make the class valuable to you. In the end, she may do nothing to help you or to adjust her work with you and Laika to be helpful - some trainers don't have enough knowledge or experience to be able to do that - but in all fairness to the trainer, it doesn't sound like you've actually given her a chance to.

 

I would try to think about things from her perspective (on class #2 after several weeks away, owner with (potentially) an attitude comes in and says she doesn't want to work through the whole class so she leaves you alone, which is what she thinks you're asking for) and consider asking to meet with her before the next class to express you concerns and see if either she can adapt to help you guys out or just call a spade a spade and say this isn't a good fit and either let you take another class or give you a partial refund.

Edited November 4, 2012 by NeylasMom

[Guest lanielovesgreys]

You're right, I have not been up front. But ultimately I would have liked her to come up with some solutions for me. Or to do some research. Or to work with us more individually during class. I didn't want her to just throw up her hands and quit. And because she did, I came up with my own solutions. If she can't help us in an individual way, then we'll just sit and watch. And you're right, I'm still mad when she let me sit and watch. But ultimately I'm just mad because she didn't make an effort to find solutions. And maybe it's because the solution would be more 1-on-1 and I paid for a group class. Or maybe she just has no idea.

 

I realized after your post that I wasn't being fair to the trainer. I'm not being up front. But I honestly don't think she is capable of coming up with a solution as she has not even tried yet. So I just called and cancelled for the remainder. I think there are 4 more. I need to do what works for us and stop expecting her to put any effort into figuring out what that might be.

 

At the end of the day, the trainer was wrong for us, I was trying to make it work anyway and just creating a less-than-ideal training environment for everybody.

[NeylasMom]

 

I realized after your post that I wasn't being fair to the trainer. I'm not being up front. But I honestly don't think she is capable of coming up with a solution as she has not even tried yet. So I just called and cancelled for the remainder. I think there are 4 more. I need to do what works for us and stop expecting her to put any effort into figuring out what that might be.

 

At the end of the day, the trainer was wrong for us, I was trying to make it work anyway and just creating a less-than-ideal training environment for everybody.

Good, I agree, you did what's best for you guys. Hopefully they gave you at least a partial refund?