Help Needed - Grey And Cat Not Getting Along.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

 

For future reference - telling someone to get rid of their dog instead of actually helping them with the problem - isn't helpful at all.

I am not in a place to get rid of this dog - i can't magically get a new one. I'm glad you can deal with animals in such a materialistic manner as to if it doesn't work, buy a new one, instead of fixing it, but i am not in that place and cannot, will not do this.

The LAST thing i ever desire is my cat being hurt, and i will do everything in my power to prevent that.

This situation is more than fixable and i was just asking for ideas on how to help me to get there.

 

Your first priority is the safety of your cat. The cat was there first and deserves a safe home. If you've ended up with a dog that cannot live safely with the cat, giving it back to the group isn't "materialistic" it's the rational and responsible thing to do.

 

Now, I'm not saying give up right away, you need to work on training and monitoring the dog, but you have to also understand that there is a very real possibility that it won't work. That this dog will never be safe with your cat.

 

When I adopted my grey my only requirement was that it be cat safe. When I brought her home I knew fully well that if she showed any inclination to go for the cats that she would have to be returned and we would try another dog. It's not a bad thing. There are dogs out there, like mine, that live very well with cats and don't even require any conditioning to do so.

[Guest limbrooke83]

Let me emphasize one more time - Elo needs a service dog. If for some reason Luka is unable to get along with Neko, she will do what she needs to do, even if it means getting a different dog. In service dog circles, we refer to that as "washing out" a candidate who has unfixable issues. That said... Luka is nowhere *near* the point of needing washed out. I have known many who have made the difficult decision to wash out their service dog candidate. Most choose to either keep the first dog and train a second, or if they can't afford that (remember these are people with disabilities, so money is often very tight), rehome the first dog after finding a home where the dog can be truly happy. It's a heart-rending decision, but one we caution every single person who trains a service dog to be prepared to make - before they even get their first candidate. Elo was forewarned that this could happen, and she is committed to doing what is best in everyone's interests.

 

Re: the foster mom - as Elo stated, it is entirely possible to train an animal to behave poorly in a given situation or around a given animal or person. Luka was totally fine with Neko at first. He responded appropriately when Neko indicated he wasn't interested in Luka being around him. He turned away, did other things, and really couldn't have cared less about the cat. He *still* could care less about small furries, including cats, except for Neko, which indicates something happened to turn him from a dog who was fine around *all* small furries, including Neko, to one who is fine with all small furries *except* Neko. Even before we knew this was going to become a big issue, the other trainer and myself immediately (we were watching the video together) stated his foster mom was making *huge* mistakes in handling him. Rather than focus at all on the task at hand - introducing the dog and cat - she treated the visit like social hour, telling story after story, even *after* Luka began to show an inappropriate focus on Neko, which was only *after* she'd allowed him to stand at the very end of his leash wanting to sniff Neko for quite awhile. Then the barking began, and she - get this - *rewarded* him for it, petting him and even saying "good boy" to him while doing it! Repeatedly. Over the course of two visits. How do you train a dog to behave inappropriately if they weren't before? The same way you train them to do good things - by rewarding and encouraging each small step towards the end goal. This is how most pet problems come to exist - through owner/handler error. Not all, but most, and it's certainly so in this case. Luka was trained and encouraged to be overly interested in Neko. As I said, foster parents are great, but this particular one made big mistakes which put at risk the future career of an otherwise stellar candidate, as well as the assistance he could give to Elo, who has searched for an entire year to find him. Foster parents are great, but they aren't perfect trainers. Heck, even professional dog trainers make mistakes sometimes! Foster parents are amazing, wonderful people who provide a much needed service in the adoption community. Nobody here has said, or would ever say, otherwise. In fact Elo even pointed out the other ways in which Luka's foster mom was amazing and went the extra mile. We only mentioned her mistake as part of an explanation of the background of how this issue got started. That's all.

 

That said, to those who have shared advice, thank you. The cat in a covered crate idea is a good one, and one I just mentioned to Elo myself yesterday, so it was funny to see it here as well. Elo does routinely use a clicker, and Luka is responding well to it. She began training "watch me" yesterday, and he is already learning the "touch" (hand targeting) command. The latter is one of DeeDee's favorite "games" and something I have successfully used to redirect her attention if she gets distracted by something in public. Luka and DeeDee actually have quite a bit in common, even beyond their basic greyhound temperament, so I am hoping he too will enjoy the hand targeting game and that it might prove useful in distracting him around Neko. He is also doing sits (sits! yay!) and learning other things as well.

 

For those who are thinking Luka should simply be returned at this point, I highly recommend the series "Growing Up Guide Pup" on Youtube. In it, you can see that service dog candidates always have issues that need to be worked through. They aren't born perfectly behaved. Prey drive is often fixable/trainable. Even in a greyhound. And Luka doesn't truly have true prey drive. He has a trained response towards one animal in particular which needs to be retrained into a different response. If having zero prey drive is important in service dogs in general, it is *especially* important in a guide dog, yet if you watch the first season of Growing Up Guide Pup you will see that the organization tried for quite awhile to re-train a dog with extremely high prey drive (lunging/barking at small animals persistently). They did have to wash the dog out, but only after a lot of attempts to fix the issue. The way that particular dog responded to small furries outdoors is much like how DeeDee did initially. Yet she has learned to ignore that instinct to chase so reliably that I quite literally wager my life on it each time we go out - much more so than a blind individual with a guide dog does. I wouldn't do that if I thought she would give chase. Luka's issue is nowhere near that severe. Chances are very good at this point that it is fixable.

 

I encouraged Elo to post here to get ideas on how to fix the problem. She is new to the greyhound community, and this hasn't exactly been the warm welcome I was expecting for her. I understand that most people here are pet owners, not service dog owners or trainers, and no one understands better than me how different those situations are and how much your thinking changes when you go from pet owner to service dog trainer/handler. I explained this to Elo before she posted. Elo is very active in service dog circles as well - has been for the past year, learning and absorbing information from people training and/or living with service dogs on a daily basis. I simply thought it might be nice for her to get involved with the greyhound community in general, and that people familiar with a breed who so often has prey drive issues might be able to offer ideas on fixing a rather minor issue that may take me awhile to come up with on my own.

 

Again, thank you to those who have helped. We've gleaned a few ideas from this thread and seen the backing of several ideas we'd already come up with ourselves. It is much appreciated.

[krissy]

No offense but I'm looking for an agility greyhound and the reason why I still don't have my second dog yet is because I have to find an agility prospect that is small animal safe. I want work drive with no prey drive. It's a difficult combination. There are lots of dogs I could have taken that would have been great agility dogs but not the safest with my critters. And sure, some of them probably could have been worked on. However, my absolute, number 1 priority is the safety of all my pets. That means that under absolutely NO circumstances that are avoidable will I put them in potential danger. And a dog that shows interest in them is potential danger.

 

And yes you can train dogs to be aggressive but not with one or two mistakes. Pit bulls and Rotties that are trained to be aggressive did not get that way because someone jerked on their leash once or twice. They became that way because people consistently conditioned them that way over an extended period of time. If all it took was 2 mistakes to turn a dog into a cat zapper... said dog would still NOT be allowed in my house with my defenseless creatures.

 

Ultimately all people are saying is that you both need to stop making excuses and stop thinking that there is absolutely no problem. Obviously there's an issue or this thread wouldn't be here. If she wants to try to make it work that's fine. Lots of people have said that they've done it and offered suggestions for how to go about it. Muzzling the dog and setting it loose on a cat that runs is NOT safe. You keep saying that you both know it might not work out and the dog might have to be returned but then turn around and say that there's no issue. There IS an issue. You can work on it and maybe fix it but right now you have a problem. And everyone involved needs to accept that.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

Ultimately all people are saying is that you both need to stop making excuses and stop thinking that there is absolutely no problem. Obviously there's an issue or this thread wouldn't be here. If she wants to try to make it work that's fine. Lots of people have said that they've done it and offered suggestions for how to go about it. Muzzling the dog and setting it loose on a cat that runs is NOT safe. You keep saying that you both know it might not work out and the dog might have to be returned but then turn around and say that there's no issue. There IS an issue. You can work on it and maybe fix it but right now you have a problem. And everyone involved needs to accept that.

 

This.

 

There is a problem, solutions have been offered. Nobody here has said that she must give up on Luka, but I think we all agree that she must keep that option open.

The LAST thing i ever desire is my cat being hurt, and i will do everything in my power to prevent that.

 

For those who are thinking Luka should simply be returned at this point, I highly recommend the series "Growing Up Guide Pup" on Youtube. In it, you can see that service dog candidates always have issues that need to be worked through. They aren't born perfectly behaved. Prey drive is often fixable/trainable. Even in a greyhound. And Luka doesn't truly have true prey drive. He has a trained response towards one animal in particular which needs to be retrained into a different response. If having zero prey drive is important in service dogs in general, it is *especially* important in a guide dog, yet if you watch the first season of Growing Up Guide Pup you will see that the organization tried for quite awhile to re-train a dog with extremely high prey drive (lunging/barking at small animals persistently). They did have to wash the dog out, but only after a lot of attempts to fix the issue. The way that particular dog responded to small furries outdoors is much like how DeeDee did initially. Yet she has learned to ignore that instinct to chase so reliably that I quite literally wager my life on it each time we go out - much more so than a blind individual with a guide dog does. I wouldn't do that if I thought she would give chase. Luka's issue is nowhere near that severe. Chances are very good at this point that it is fixable.

 

NOBODY has said this. Everyone has different requirements and thresholds for what they'll deal with. Some will keep a high prey dog and work hard to keep it separated from the cat, that's fine. Others, myself included, wouldn't hesitate to return a high prey dog and try another, that's fine too.

 

In this case, the dog has a lot going for him with temperament and trainability. Coupled with Elo needing a service dog, that means her threshold for keeping the dog is much higher than many of us who just need a pet, again, that's fine. She's just going to have to work hard to keep the cat safe until Luka decides to settle and ignore the cat, or the situation becomes untenable.

 

Some other options are to choose a different breed for service work, there are many breeds where one wouldn't have to search for a year to find a proper candidate, or re-home the cat (I would never advocate re-homing a cat in favor of a new dog, except in cases like this where the owner needs a service dog, although choosing a different breed would be a much better option than this).

[Guest limbrooke83]

No offense but I'm looking for an agility greyhound and the reason why I still don't have my second dog yet is because I have to find an agility prospect that is small animal safe. I want work drive with no prey drive. It's a difficult combination. There are lots of dogs I could have taken that would have been great agility dogs but not the safest with my critters. And sure, some of them probably could have been worked on. However, my absolute, number 1 priority is the safety of all my pets. That means that under absolutely NO circumstances that are avoidable will I put them in potential danger. And a dog that shows interest in them is potential danger.

 

And yes you can train dogs to be aggressive but not with one or two mistakes. Pit bulls and Rotties that are trained to be aggressive did not get that way because someone jerked on their leash once or twice. They became that way because people consistently conditioned them that way over an extended period of time. If all it took was 2 mistakes to turn a dog into a cat zapper... said dog would still NOT be allowed in my house with my defenseless creatures.

 

Ultimately all people are saying is that you both need to stop making excuses and stop thinking that there is absolutely no problem. Obviously there's an issue or this thread wouldn't be here. If she wants to try to make it work that's fine. Lots of people have said that they've done it and offered suggestions for how to go about it. Muzzling the dog and setting it loose on a cat that runs is NOT safe. You keep saying that you both know it might not work out and the dog might have to be returned but then turn around and say that there's no issue. There IS an issue. You can work on it and maybe fix it but right now you have a problem. And everyone involved needs to accept that.

 

Neither of us have said there is no issue. We said the issue is not one that absolutely can't be fixed. And nobody said there were only two mistakes made with this dog. There was a constant barrage of mistakes over the course of two *long* visits. And yes, that is absolutely enough to create an issue. Nobody is making excuses. Elo reached out for ideas here, which means she recognizes a problem and is working to fix it. And no offense, but it's far easier to find an agility dog than a service dog. Far easier. I know many, many people who have done both. Please don't insult the experience of people who know service dogs and know how to choose service dog candidates, and have done so successfully. Our friend in Florida does this for an extremely successful program which trains shelter dogs to become service dogs. I was brought in as the greyhound person, who both owns a greyhound, has been around greyhounds, and has a greyhound service dog herself. I would not attempt to tell you how to choose an agility dog. They are very different types of working dogs. We are looking for ideas, not judgment. That's all.

[Guest limbrooke83]

Ultimately all people are saying is that you both need to stop making excuses and stop thinking that there is absolutely no problem. Obviously there's an issue or this thread wouldn't be here. If she wants to try to make it work that's fine. Lots of people have said that they've done it and offered suggestions for how to go about it. Muzzling the dog and setting it loose on a cat that runs is NOT safe. You keep saying that you both know it might not work out and the dog might have to be returned but then turn around and say that there's no issue. There IS an issue. You can work on it and maybe fix it but right now you have a problem. And everyone involved needs to accept that.

 

This.

 

There is a problem, solutions have been offered. Nobody here has said that she must give up on Luka, but I think we all agree that she must keep that option open.

The LAST thing i ever desire is my cat being hurt, and i will do everything in my power to prevent that.

 

For those who are thinking Luka should simply be returned at this point, I highly recommend the series "Growing Up Guide Pup" on Youtube. In it, you can see that service dog candidates always have issues that need to be worked through. They aren't born perfectly behaved. Prey drive is often fixable/trainable. Even in a greyhound. And Luka doesn't truly have true prey drive. He has a trained response towards one animal in particular which needs to be retrained into a different response. If having zero prey drive is important in service dogs in general, it is *especially* important in a guide dog, yet if you watch the first season of Growing Up Guide Pup you will see that the organization tried for quite awhile to re-train a dog with extremely high prey drive (lunging/barking at small animals persistently). They did have to wash the dog out, but only after a lot of attempts to fix the issue. The way that particular dog responded to small furries outdoors is much like how DeeDee did initially. Yet she has learned to ignore that instinct to chase so reliably that I quite literally wager my life on it each time we go out - much more so than a blind individual with a guide dog does. I wouldn't do that if I thought she would give chase. Luka's issue is nowhere near that severe. Chances are very good at this point that it is fixable.

 

NOBODY has said this. Everyone has different requirements and thresholds for what they'll deal with. Some will keep a high prey dog and work hard to keep it separated from the cat, that's fine. Others, myself included, wouldn't hesitate to return a high prey dog and try another, that's fine too.

 

In this case, the dog has a lot going for him with temperament and trainability. Coupled with Elo needing a service dog, that means her threshold for keeping the dog is much higher than many of us who just need a pet, again, that's fine. She's just going to have to work hard to keep the cat safe until Luka decides to settle and ignore the cat, or the situation becomes untenable.

 

Some other options are to choose a different breed for service work, there are many breeds where one wouldn't have to search for a year to find a proper candidate, or re-home the cat (I would never advocate re-homing a cat in favor of a new dog, except in cases like this where the owner needs a service dog, although choosing a different breed would be a much better option than this).

 

Thank you, although again, neither of us have indicated there is no problem. We recognize there is something that needs to be worked on, which is why Elo posted here. We also have both stated we realize if the dog cannot be trained to ignore Neko, Elo will need to find a different dog. We're just not at that point yet. I do agree that needing a service dog is why Elo is willing to work through this issue. Luka really does have a ton going for him. And you know what? This won't be the last issue he'll have to work through. Every service dog in training has issues that get worked through along the way. Even fully trained service dogs have "quirks" and some develop issues later in their working careers because a handler either failed to keep up with the dog's training or responded inappropriately in a crucial moment. You have to be able to respond on the fly to any issues the dog has, and to see the little things in a dog's behavior that could lead to big, "wash out worthy" things later on if not handled appropriately. A service dog's training never ends. This is Elo's first big hurdle with Luka, but there will be more, no matter how strong a candidate he is. It happens.

 

I do want to add that with any breed it will take a long time to find a suitable candidate. In fact, to be honest, and I know many who would agree, it is far *easier* to find a greyhound service dog candidate than it is with breeds like labs and goldens and such, because in general the greyhound's calm, unflappable demeanor lends itself very well to working in public. Compare the behavior of many greys at meet 'n greets to that of dogs at other breed rescue gatherings. Often the greyhounds will be laying or standing calmly in a very busy, high distraction environment, something that is challenging for most other breeds. 99% of a service dog's time is spent in a "hurry up and wait" mode (while working). That is, they must be ready to work if called upon, but in reality they spend most of their time resting at your feet wherever you are. Other breeds tend to be too high strung for service dog work, with the exception of a few rare individuals. With greyhounds, it is still difficult to find a truly solid candidate, but I've also known of people who have taken advantage of their grey's natural personality to pass it off as a calm, trained service dog in public. In fact, I know of an entire program that does this with greyhounds. Wrong, but it happens. So really, greyhounds are a great breed for this. But it still takes time to responsibly search out the best possible candidate and then of course to train that dog reliably.

 

That said, I do want to stress that there *has* been progress made. Neko is coming out of hiding much more now and entering the rooms where Luka is. Luka is no longer barking at Neko, although he still is clearly interested in trying to greet him. And it's only been about a week. My hope is that someday we can get a video of them getting along well, even if they're not best buds, and post it here to thank those who have offered good advice.

Edited September 24, 2012 by limbrooke83

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

99% of a service dog's time is spent in a "hurry up and wait" mode (while working). That is, they must be ready to work if called upon, but in reality they spend most of their time resting at your feet wherever you are. Other breeds tend to be too high strung for service dog work, with the exception of a few rare individuals. With greyhounds, it is still difficult to find a truly solid candidate, but I've also known of people who have taken advantage of their grey's natural personality to pass it off as a calm, trained service dog in public. In fact, I know of an entire program that does this with greyhounds. Wrong, but it happens. So really, greyhounds are a great breed for this. But it still takes time to responsibly search out the best possible candidate and then of course to train that dog reliably.

 

That's very interesting, and something I hadn't thought of. I've seen a few service dogs around town, most of them have been labs, but it must take a bit of work to curb their energetic natures into a "hurry up and wait" kind of dog. (HA! Thought experiment: how about a grey lab cross - the low energy and calm demeanor of a grey, but the high desire to please and easy trainability of a lab!)

 

That said, I do want to stress that there *has* been progress made. Neko is coming out of hiding much more now and entering the rooms where Luka is. Luka is no longer barking at Neko, although he still is clearly interested in trying to greet him. And it's only been about a week. My hope is that someday we can get a video of them getting along well, even if they're not best buds, and post it here to thank those who have offered good advice.

 

That's great news! If Luka is giving interested body language, but it's not focuses/predatory, then as Neko gets bolder things will probably calm down a lot. Much of his interest could just be that he's young and enthusiastic.

 

I think keeping things calm, rewarding Luka for ignoring the cat, and letting the cat approach at his own speed will go a long way toward getting these two to live together peacefully. Neko getting brave enough to whack the dog across the nose would probably be helpful in assuaging his curiosity.

[Guest limbrooke83]

99% of a service dog's time is spent in a "hurry up and wait" mode (while working). That is, they must be ready to work if called upon, but in reality they spend most of their time resting at your feet wherever you are. Other breeds tend to be too high strung for service dog work, with the exception of a few rare individuals. With greyhounds, it is still difficult to find a truly solid candidate, but I've also known of people who have taken advantage of their grey's natural personality to pass it off as a calm, trained service dog in public. In fact, I know of an entire program that does this with greyhounds. Wrong, but it happens. So really, greyhounds are a great breed for this. But it still takes time to responsibly search out the best possible candidate and then of course to train that dog reliably.

 

That's very interesting, and something I hadn't thought of. I've seen a few service dogs around town, most of them have been labs, but it must take a bit of work to curb their energetic natures into a "hurry up and wait" kind of dog. (HA! Thought experiment: how about a grey lab cross - the low energy and calm demeanor of a grey, but the high desire to please and easy trainability of a lab!)

 

That said, I do want to stress that there *has* been progress made. Neko is coming out of hiding much more now and entering the rooms where Luka is. Luka is no longer barking at Neko, although he still is clearly interested in trying to greet him. And it's only been about a week. My hope is that someday we can get a video of them getting along well, even if they're not best buds, and post it here to thank those who have offered good advice.

 

That's great news! If Luka is giving interested body language, but it's not focuses/predatory, then as Neko gets bolder things will probably calm down a lot. Much of his interest could just be that he's young and enthusiastic.

 

I think keeping things calm, rewarding Luka for ignoring the cat, and letting the cat approach at his own speed will go a long way toward getting these two to live together peacefully. Neko getting brave enough to whack the dog across the nose would probably be helpful in assuaging his curiosity.

 

Thanks! Yes, a lot of people assume (as I did before getting involved with service dogs) that the actual task training is the difficult part, when in reality it is the public access training, including the whole "hurry up and wait" mentality. A service dog should basically be invisible as much as possible, and that's hard for a more energetic breed like a lab or a golden - especially while they're still young. Service dogs in training also have to be exposed to a lot of new environments of course, so the greyhound's "calm, unflappable" temperament goes a long way towards helping them in that aspect of their training. Obviously this doesn't apply to all greys, but it seems like it does for a higher percentage of greys than many other breeds. The greyhound's biggest pitfall is simply learning how to motivate them to work, but that's totally doable with a lot of greyhounds if you find the right reward. (Btw, love the lab/greyhound cross idea, haha... let's do it! )

 

I agree that even a little progress is a lot at this point w/Luka and Neko. From more recent videos I've seen of him, he is definitely more relaxed and comfortable there now. He's settling in nicely, and my hope is he will continue to improve around Neko, even if it simply means accepting that there's another furry in the house who doesn't want to get too close. You can't win 'em all over, lol...

[a_daerr]

I think it's time for the moderators to delete this thread.

[Guest limbrooke83]

Why? Because someone asked for advice? Isn't that what these forums are here for? Besides, people can learn from these types of posts. For example, Luka is now making big strides w/Neko. I have always encouraged every single one of the people who have come to me with questions about greyhounds and/or an interest in adopting one to get involved here. We're talking new people every week who contact me through DeeDee's website, Youtube, etc. I know people can have differences of opinion, but we're here to learn from each other. At least that's what I thought. If that's not the case, I will glady stop referring people here...

 

I thought the thread had ended on a positive, friendly note... maybe I was wrong.

[Guest kess]

as much as you love the dog you had the cat first so the cat should be the first priority

[Jackandgrey]

Sounds like things are moving in a very positive direction for both Luca and Neko. What good news!

[4My2Greys]

 

For example, Luka is now making big strides w/Neko.

 

I thought the thread had ended on a positive, friendly note... maybe I was wrong.

 

It did. The problem is people don't read the entire thread before commenting as evidenced by the comment following this one I'm replying to. I've been reading along and glad to hear that the OP didn't just throw in the towel so to speak, but chose to make an attempt to make things work. And it does seems that things are going in a positive direction. I'm looking forward to reading more good reports and hopefully in time seeing pictures of them together when they're both comfortable with each others' company.

[Guest PhillyPups]

I am curious amd willing to learn. I may have been missing something, but the majority of service dogs I have seen working as service dogs were labs. Also I know quite a few people that take the puppies that are scheduled to be service dogs and keep them for about a year before they leave for training as service dogs. In this year they house train them, expose them to the outside world and when the time comes for the official schooling they are turned over to professionals. Am I under a misconception here?

Edited September 29, 2012 by PhillyPups

[Guest limbrooke83]

For example, Luka is now making big strides w/Neko.

 

I thought the thread had ended on a positive, friendly note... maybe I was wrong.

 

It did. The problem is people don't read the entire thread before commenting as evidenced by the comment following this one I'm replying to. I've been reading along and glad to hear that the OP didn't just throw in the towel so to speak, but chose to make an attempt to make things work. And it does seems that things are going in a positive direction. I'm looking forward to reading more good reports and hopefully in time seeing pictures of them together when they're both comfortable with each others' company.

 

Ah, okay. I guess if people want to comment w/o reading the first several comments in a thread, it's their loss, lol. I'm glad the thread is here for those who want to learn, and also look forward to the day when we can say "hey, guess what, they get along perfectly now!"

 

I am curious amd willing to learn. I may have been missing something, but the majority of service dogs I have seen working as service dogs were labs. Also I know quite a few people that take the puppies that are scheduled to be service dogs and keep them for about a year before they leave for training as service dogs. In this year they house train them, expose them to the outside world and when the time comes for the official schooling they are turned over to professionals. Am I under a misconception here?

 

Hi! I've heard this question before, quite a bit actually. There are a lot of program trained dogs out there (most often labs, goldens, labradoodles, goldendoodles, etc, but a few solid programs use greyhounds as well). There are also a ton of owner trained service dogs out there. Both have the same rights under federal law (the ADA, or Americans with Disabilities Act, created by the Department of Justice). Basically, in order to qualify as a service dog, first and foremost the dog's handler must be disabled. Under the ADA, this means they have a physical or psychological condition which significantly impacts one or more major areas of living (walking, working, breathing, eating, sleeping, etc). Secondly, the dog must be housebroken, under control, and know a bare minimum of one *trained* task specific to the handler's disability (most know many). The ADA is clear that a dog whose sole purpose is to provide comfort or a sense of security through its presence alone does not qualify as a service dog. That said, there are trained psychological service dogs, for example, those trained for returning veterans, who are able to wake the handler from nightmares, guide them out of a crowd during a panic episode, enter a room or house first to search for intruders and turn on lights ahead of the handler, alert the handler to the approach of people from behind, etc. There are also of course mobility dogs, guide dogs, hearing dogs, medical alert dogs (such as for seizures or type 1 diabetes), etc.

 

A few years ago, the DOJ reviewed and made changes to the ADA, including the part about service dogs. Some people pushed for some form of official certification, which is actually a horrible idea for many reasons, despite what I would have thought before doing more research and needing a service dog myself. The DOJ agreed it was a bad idea, and explained some of their reasons here (push ctrl+F and search for "training requirement" to skip right to the section pertaining to this). Basically, attempting to create and enforce some type of national service dog certification program would prevent many individuals who desperately need service dogs from obtaining them. As it is, businesses are allowed by law to throw out any dog who is displaying disruptive behavior, no matter what certification a handler may claim or where the dog was trained. A business may not, however, ask for proof of training, proof of or a description of an individual's disability, etc. They are allowed to ask two questions only per federal law: 1) Is that a service dog, and 2) What is the dog is trained to do? (Note, they cannot demand to see the dog perform a task, as we are not a traveling circus and really just want to live our lives as normally as possible.) If businesses educate themselves, it's pretty easy to weed out fakers by the answers they give and the behavior of the dog in general. Those of us with legitimate service dogs show it by having correct answers to those questions ready and by having dogs who display top notch service dog behavior.

 

I wanted to add: some people try to certify their service dogs online, but online websites offering "certification" are a scam, as there is no legally recognized certification whatsoever. Even a program's certification bears no legal weight, nor does it give the dog's handler any more rights than the handler of an owner trained dog (I say handlers because it is the handlers, not the dogs, who have legal rights per the ADA). It is simply a piece of paper stating that particular dog met that particular program's standards, and standards vary greatly from program to program, with a few "programs" producing dogs who don't even meet the ADA definition of being task trained. I am very active in the service dog world, of course, and by many accounts, you tend to see more out of control program dogs (guide dogs tend to be the worst for whatever reason) than you do owner trained dogs. I believe this is because most programs train the dogs themselves, then call in future owners for a two week crash course on dog psychology, learning their dog's commands (often over 80), dog hygiene, etc, before turning them loose with their dogs. On the flip side, an owner trainer does all of the dog's training him/herself and learns as they go. Doing all of that training builds a great bond with the dog, and also teaches handlers progressively how to think like trainers and make decisions on the fly as they are in progressively more challenging environments, beginning right at home. Owner trainers also tend to hold themselves and their dogs to the absolute highest standards, simply because we know our dogs will be judged more harshly as being owner trained and we are very aware that our actions as individual teams reflect on the service dog community at large.

 

Sooo yeah, lol. That's a really long answer, but then there's a lot of information needed to paint a complete picture. Hopefully that all made sense. Thank you for asking!

 

ETA: I just re-read that and realized I may have come off sounding a bit harsh in relation to program trained dogs. There are *many* wonderful programs out there. My feeling is that, more than anything else (including where the dog was trained), how a dog behaves in the long run comes down to the individual handler's willingness and ability to learn about dog training and invest the time, attention, and effort required to keep a working dog on top of its game. I just wanted to add that so people don't think I'm against program dogs, lol. I actually have several good friends with program trained dogs who are wonderful! The same can be said for friends with owner trained dogs, as well as DeeDee herself of course. It all comes down to the individual dog/handler team.

Edited October 1, 2012 by limbrooke83

[Guest newstart]

I am trying to reach Limbrooke 83 about training a new greyhound service dog. could someone direct her in my way.

thanks