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Bizarre Behaviour After Dental


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Here's the story:

 

I was taking Jeffie in to get a small tumour looked at and took Sid along because, despite my not being able to see anything wrong with his teeth, he had bad breath. One of the vets I trust took a look and said there was a bad tooth right at the back and it should come out. I booked him in at the same time as Jeffie since Jeffie is super anxious and I thought it might help to have Sid there, and ... well, no point in putting it off and having to go to the vet twice, right? Both dogs are in good health.

 

So on Friday Jeffie (ten) had his little tumour removal and two teeth removed (one a canine).

 

Sid (eight) had both the two rearmost teeth removed from his upper jaw. The vet had told me that the roots on those small molars are quite shallow so it shouldn't be a problem. I hadn't expected him to lose both, but .. well, I couldn't see well enough to say that the other wasn't bad too, so accepted it was necessary.

 

Friday night, neither was happy and neither ate anything. Saturday morning Sid ate and had his painkiller (Carprodyl) and antibiotic (Rilexin). Jeffie didn't, so I took him back to have his doses by injection.

 

Sunday both seemed fine, and since I was booked for a stand at a dog show, we took them along and gave them beds in the shade and they appeared to quite enjoy the day - I had checked with the vet that it was OK to take them.

 

Monday Jeff was back to normal, but Sid was in pain and hadn't eaten so couldn't have his Carprodyl. I took him back, they gave him Vetergesic (an opiate) and Rilexin by injection. Brought him home and he began acting very strangely. He continued to refuse both food and water and spent the morning wandering around, running away from both of us if we approached him. He stayed out in the garden, which he NEVER does by choice. He panted and dripped so much I thought he was going to expire from heatstroke or acidosis. I took him back and they admitted him, put him on a drip and gave him Vetergesic. I asked them about it perhaps being side effects of the Vetergesic causing him to be paranoid and they said he was OK there, so probably not.

 

At the phone consult Tuesday morning they said he was doing better but 'he's a worrier isn't he?' to which I replied emphatically 'No'. The vet said maybe they'd try a different painkiller, but as I found out this morning, they actually kept him on a reducing dose of the same one.

 

Tuesday evening they said he was eating and drinking and could go home today.

 

I've just picked him up and he is still displaying exactly the same behaviour - apart from drinking (and probably will eat). He's wandering around looking lost, scared, and unhappy. He has a worried frown. He is panting.

 

I guess my question is, how long does Vetergesic take to clear the system and how soon after that can I expect him to return to his normal carefree personality if it is that which is the problem.

 

I'm distressed and puzzled and feeling horribly guilty for putting him through this. I've never seem him like this and can't seem to make them understand that this is NOT normal. I'm even wondering if he could have had a stroke, except as my DH pointed out, he seemed fine on Sunday.

 

Thoughts? Anyone have a similar experience?

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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I'm surprised the vets kept him on Vetergesic. That's the first thing I thought of as I was reading it.

 

Dogs can have an adverse reaction to any drug. My Onyx did to Valium and it was put in her charts in big letters...NO VALIUM.

 

I hope he feels better soon. I can't say how long it'll take for it leave his system. But I would think the more water the better.

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Me too, but sadly they're saying it should be out of his system by now if it was that and he is still restless and disoriented. I look in his eyes and his personality is just not there!

 

They're saying no to a stroke too, BTW. His neurological responses and his heart rhythm are normal. :dunno

 

I'm waiting for one of the vets who did the surgery to call me back.

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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Oh geez, hope it wears off quickly and you have your sweet boy back. Bullitt acted like that the first time he was put on Metacam. We have never used it with him again.

Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel

Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee

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I don't have any similar experience, but I remember reading something about greyhounds and Vetergesic recently and have included a link, in case this helps at all.

 

https://www.greyhoun... ... cle13.aspx

 

I hope Sid feels better very soon.

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When a relationship of love is disrupted, the relationship does not cease. The love continues; therefore, the relationship continues. The work of grief is to reconcile and redeem life to a different love relationship. ~ W Scott Lineberry

Always Greyhounds Home Boarding and Greyhounds With Love House Sitting

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Lots of grey are particularly sensitive to opiate-type pain killers. I would seriously question your vet if they want to give it to him again. I know it's distressing, but perhaps the best thing is to help him eat and drink and move around a bit to help get the remnants of the drug out of his system, and just give him some time. I think opiates seem to take longer than other drugs to clear.

Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

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Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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Thanks, everyone. I appreciate all the responses!

 

I've just spoken to the vets. I am SO not impressed by this particular one (who looks about 19, though she probably isn't). She rang through to a referral centre for advice and I don't know what she told them but the answer was he might have a fractured TM joint so he needed to come back in for another GA and x-rays, or it might be oesophagitis due to reflux under GA, which she pointed out to me was very, very painful (as an acid reflux sufferer I know exactly how painful it is and also that he wouldn't be gulping water if it were that because that just makes it worse), or in infarction. However, she had previously assured me it couldn't be that because all his neuro signs were normal, and he just ate his dinner with absolutely no sign of pain or discomfort. I have zero faith in this girl.

 

However, I've just looked up the manufacturer's product leaflet and they say it takes up to 24 hours for Vetergesic to clear the system so I'm doing nothing till then.

 

I could weep over the sheer number of vets and nurses who've been involved with Sid over the last few days and the lack of communication - and the lack of belief in what I've been telling them. If they'd paid attention - and it does turn out to be a side effect of Vetergesic - they would perhaps at least have stopped pumping it into him. :angry:

 

Lots of grey are particularly sensitive to opiate-type pain killers. I would seriously question your vet if they want to give it to him again. I know it's distressing, but perhaps the best thing is to help him eat and drink and move around a bit to help get the remnants of the drug out of his system, and just give him some time. I think opiates seem to take longer than other drugs to clear.

 

Thanks, yes, having read the product info, I now believe this to be true. :nod

 

I assume that he was stil getting the opiates last night and if that is the case, then it still going to take at least another day or two to clear the system.

 

I would also tell the vet to never give those drugs again.

 

Last dose was this morning. :(

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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Failing to find a way to permanently tattoo medical warnings on my boy, I had a dog tag engraved to say "WARNING: NO KETAMINE." In the future, if we're going to someone besides our regular vet, I'm considering a Sharpie laundry marker; if I write neatly, I can get a warning on both his front legs.

 

I'm so sorry you and Sid are going through this. And I'm disturbed by vet logic that says, "This drug isn't helping the dog. Let's give him more of it."

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Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and
Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come.

Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016),
darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006)

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So sorry that Sid is going through this. Like the others, my first thought was, reaction to the opiate. Since he is eating and drinking, hopefully it will get out of his system in a timely manner, but it could take up to 48 hrs to completely clear. However, he should be much better by tomorrow. I don't know how many vets you have in your area, but I sure wouldn't be going back to that one!

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So sorry that Sid is going through this. Like the others, my first thought was, reaction to the opiate. Since he is eating and drinking, hopefully it will get out of his system in a timely manner, but it could take up to 48 hrs to completely clear. However, he should be much better by tomorrow. I don't know how many vets you have in your area, but I sure wouldn't be going back to that one!

 

Yeah, not so easy, and probably not necessary ... these are greyhound vets - THE greyhound vets for Peterborough, since they do all the track work too. The two who attend the track surgery themselves are very competent, but it's a large practice and often you can't see who you want to see. I've decided for sure that one of the two who did the surgery (who I wasn't terribly keen on before this) will not be seeing my dogs again for anything other than minor stuff if I can possibly avoid it. However, the other one was the reason we moved from our previous vet to this practice. He is gentle, caring and knowledgeable. Unfortunately, he only works two days a week at this branch. What I am going to do is see who works more often at the other branch, and though it isn't so new, shiny and state of the art, if the greyhound vets are there more often we will be going there in future.

 

 

Ugh-I can appreciate how frustrating this is for you. I would sit tight and wait for the effects to wear off.

Sadly more than just frustrating. Quite apart from my main concern - Sid's health and wellbeing - I am supposed to be in Bridlington (3 plus hours north of here) tomorrow, returning Friday. This is a long-standing commitment and the wedding of one of my closest friends for whom I am supposed to be the witness. I am just about to ring her and talk all this through with her. I know she will be practical and understanding, but dammit, I wanted to be there for her!

 

 

I'm so sorry you and Sid are going through this. And I'm disturbed by vet logic that says, "This drug isn't helping the dog. Let's give him more of it."

 

Thanks .. no kidding! :(

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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Has anyone had a dog with a dislocated or fractured temporo mandibular joint that still ate and drank normally? I'm inclined to discount this particular line of thinking because he's eating quite avidly. OK, he doesn't want to eat off the floor, and he's showing just a little stiffness turning his head to get at the last bits across the bowl (where he has to angle sideways or straighten his neck and stick his tongue out) but this says 'neck' to me, rather than jaw. :dunno

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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Unless the vet was incompetent in the extreme with his dental, I would think the stiffenss was a result of some muscle trauma rather than any joint injury. If he had extractions on that side, he could still be tender too.

 

At this point, it's hard to tell *what* is actually going on with him beyond a bad reaction to opiates. Without anything more concrete to go on - gushing blood or bones poking out or extreme pain behavior - try and not over-analyze his condition. He should be doing much better by now, so you might be able to go away for a day if there's someone with him at home.

Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

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Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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Humans who suffer with tmj pain are in agony. I wonder if his mouth was opened wide for a long period of time and the muscles around the joint are sore. Here's hoping Sid feels better soon Judy. I'm so saddened for you for having to deal with this.

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Jan with precious pups Emmy (Stormin J Flag) and Simon (Nitro Si). Missing my angels: Bailey Buffetbobleclair 11/11/98-17/12/09; Ben Task Rapid Wave 5/5/02-2/11/15; Brooke Glo's Destroyer 7/09/06-21/06/16 and Katie Crazykatiebug 12/11/06 -21/08/21. My blog about grief The reality is that you will grieve forever. You will not get over the loss of a loved one; you will learn to live with it. You will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again but you will never be the same. Nor should you be the same, nor would you want to. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross

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Humans who suffer with tmj pain are in agony. I wonder if his mouth was opened wide for a long period of time and the muscles around the joint are sore. Here's hoping Sid feels better soon Judy. I'm so saddened for you for having to deal with this.

 

Thanks, Jan.

 

Sid seemed a lot better by Thursday morning when he'd had 24 hours to clear the opiates from his system so I went ahead, left him with Sharon (who he used to live with anyway) and went to my friends' wedding. Yesterday afternoon the report was good - everything seemed pretty much as normal with Sid, apart from a slightly stiff neck. But then last night he ate his dinner, paused and went back for seconds and only then while he was eating, screamed suddenly and ran outside as if all the bats of hell were after him, and stood trembling and panicky. Didn't properly settle for about three quarters of an hour - which is quicker than he had done previously.

 

So yes, I am leaning towards over-strain of the TMJ combined with a 'wisdom tooth extraction' type pain in the joint and surrounding areas.

 

I'm going to talk to a greyhound rehab specialist to see if he thinks any muscles/ligaments damaged in his neck could cause this, and then ring the vet, but I'm not going to let them put him under again without a second opinion. I'm thinking of giving him the weekend to recover a bit more and then take stock on Monday providing he doesn't seem worse.

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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Continued good thoughts!

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Robin, EZ (Tribal Track), JJ (What a Story), Dustin (E's Full House) and our beautiful Jack (Mana Black Jack) and Lily (Chip's Little Miss Lily) both at the Bridge
The WFUBCC honors our beautiful friends at the bridge. Godspeed sweet angels.

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sending more good thoughts!

Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Wonder if it's just a tweaked neck????

 

This is our favourite theory at the moment. I hope it's just a tweaked neck, but he's still behaving very oddly: hiding in the bedroom, refusing food for a while then inhaling it as if he hasn't eaten for a week, refusing to go out, then wanting to stay out. He's acting scared, too.

 

This is a dog who has always loved being the centre of attention, loved being fussed and loved having someone sit on the floor with him. Now, when I sit with him he tells me very plainly to go away, turning his head away and refusing to look at me. :(

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The plural of anecdote is not data

Brambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop

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Is he on any acid reducers? Both NSAIDS and antibiotics can upset their tummies pretty hard. Generic famotidine 30 minutes before eating. Also, if he had extractions, those could still be quite tender and causing him discomfort, in addition to making it hard to eat.

 

Hope he feels better soon, poor baby!

Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

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Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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