Osteo Thread V

[TwiggysMom]

As many in here know, I chose amp and chemo for Twiggy after careful consideration of all the options I had available to me.

 

If I had not chosen that route, my second choice for her would have been to take a week off of work, give her the greatest week ever, and put her to sleep at the end of the week.

 

Those were the only two options that would have been a fit with both Twiggy and our living situation. They are also at the two extremes of treatment choices. I know some people would never consider either of those options.

 

I say this because, I feel that all options are just that, options - to be considered with care and love and in light of all involved in the home. Not in consideration of what someone who doesn't know you and your dog thinks.

 

The Osteo Threads have been tremendously helpful to me, I have received amazing information and support here since Twiggy's diagnosis.

 

I hope that I've never written anything that someone would consider judgemental of one treatment option or another. I try to give what information I have (although going the amp/chemo route, that is what I have more info about). When I don't have information or experience, I try to pass along comfort and support. I'm sorry that people have felt attacked for making their own very personal choices that were best for their dogs.

 

It makes me sad to see this thread become so argumentative, and I think it would be a great disservice to those who will be coming down the pike having to deal with this disease if this thread has to go away because of it. (And Kyle, I know your intent was not to start an argument OR to say that euthanasia is an improper option, I am sorry your comment was jumped on in that manner).

 

To get back on topic, I am thrilled to hear how well Santa has been doing. Fed Ex always makes me smile - what a hero!

 

Twiggy is doing great - no more metronomic protocol for her, just metacam and artemisinin. Her 9-month x-rays came back clear, and we are excited to be going to Mountain Hounds at the end of the month! Twiggy is going to see if she can break her 37mph tripod speed record!

[dmswartzfager]

Yesterday, my dad saw Symbra for the first time since her amputation. She ran a few strides (after loping a few), and Dad asked if anyone had told her that she only has three legs.

 

I had always thought we would choose palliative care for Symbra and let her go soon after diagnosis - her temperament is such that going to strange places, including the vet, is stressful for her. But when her leg broke on the X-ray table, and I hadn't even considered she had osteo until I saw the radiograph come up on the computer screen, it all went out the window, and I have no regrets, even with the extra time she had to spend in ICU after the surgery.

 

Meanwhile, I was all set to amputate Tyler's leg when he had a malignant histiocytosis in one of the bones in his front leg, and after taking him to OSU for the surgery, they said that it appeared there was some hint that the cancer had already spread to his lymph system, so we let him go a few days later, before he got too painful, and definitely before he was ready to go - he fought the sedative.

 

 

Anyway, Symbra is doing well for now, and we are scheduled for her fifth chemo treatment on May 31.

[Guest snakes]

GO Twiggy on the clear xrays!!

Glad to hear Symbra is doing well too, i hope it is clear sailing through the 5th chemo treatment

[krissn333]

We really need to see more pics of Symbra and Twiggy-they are absolutely beautiful

 

My dad had the same reaction the first time he saw Pinky after her surgery..."wow, look at her go!" and then "how the heck did you keep up with her?" (referring to the time after her surgery when I thought she needed me to follow her around with a sling, when truthfully she really only needed it for the first day or two.). In all honesty, I don't know how I kept up with her

[NeylasMom]

I don't think that any of us here would disagree with that statement...however, the overall tone of that statement suggests that if one does not put their dog to sleep upon diagnosis, that they are condemning their dog to excruciating pain, which is simply NOT the case.

Well, my reasoning for sending Phene to the bridge when I did was because I knew that I never, ever wanted him to get to the point that he would face excruciating pain. I couldn't chance it. When I took him to the vet that last time, she said that she could absolutely guarantee and promise that he was experiencing much more pain than he let on, and that excruciating pain was inevitable. In fact, i think he was already there. In my mind, once he reached the point that the minimal pain control meds weren't working, he had already reached that point. One episode was enough. I feel that any dog who is diagnosed with osteo will face excruciating pain. It goes with the disease.

 

I tried to become active in the osteo thread here, but always felt judged that I might not have done enough for my dog. I disagree. I think I gave him the greatest gift of all.

 

I am not judging anybody who took the amp/ treatment route. We all make our decisions out of love. We just face different truths.

The conversations in this thread may tend to revolve more around treatment options because that tends to be a main reason those with newly diagnosed pups come in here, and those people with dogs receiving treatment want to share their experiences, but I don't believe anyone has ever made a judgemental comment about your choice or anyone else's to let your dog go sooner. I think those of you who have or anticipate that you will may read in to people sharing their experiences as promoting them as the sole option, which isn't the case. On the contrary, I greatly admire you and Tricia & Burke and anyone else who's made a similar choice for making such a selfless decision.

[greysmom]

Indeed.

 

In fact, I think those who choose palliative care might need threads and information like this MORE than those of us who choose the amp/chemo route. There's many more places to go for support and advice for amputation than for giving palliative care - and many more options to consider, both new and old. Plus each dog reacts differently, and it can be tough sorting out reactions with expectations.

 

I'm truly sorry than anyone has felt judged for whatever decisions they've had to make. That should never happen, and I hope those of us who continue to post and offer advice will take this into account in the future.

 

Twiggy and Symbra!!!!!

[3greytjoys]

Has anyone's hound had a front outside toe/digit amputated for a limited pathologic fracture? If so, did it eliminate all limping and osteo pain?

[krissn333]

I don't have any experience, but I hope that someone here can provide info for you

[greysmom]

Not exactly what you asked, but Dude had a middle toe amped on his left hind foot due to a fracture (not osteo) and he never limped a day after. I would think a lot would depend on if the amp removed all the visible cancer/tumor, just as if you were amping a leg. It's the cancer that causes the pain, not the break itself.

[tbhounds]

Might want to pm greytdecals. Pretty sure she can answer your questions.

[3greytjoys]

Thank you greysmom, tbhounds, and krissn333 for your responses. Every response is helpful. I will PM greytdecals too.

[TwiggysMom]

I had a foster who had an outside toe amp (would have been the index finger on a human)

 

In addition, he appeared to have some ligament damage to the next toe in (human version - middle finger - which looked like he was always sticking it out )

 

I don't know what the injury was, the amp was fully healed by the time he came into our program. Normally, it didn't affect him. He could still go for walks, run & play. If he overdid things, he would limp for the next day or so, but we all thought that was more due to the compromised remaining toe, not the amp.

 

 

Twiggy's oncologist called back today. Turns out the fleshy lump on her toe is a plasmacytoma. I made the mistake of not specifying "canine" on my first Google search and nearly scared myself to death. Apparently this behaves very differently in dogs than humans, so much so that the cutaneous ones in dogs are mostly considered benign. (In humans, it seems to look and act a lot like osteo - I saw xrays that looked exactly like osteo xrays (to my unpracticed eye)).

 

I'm to keep an eye on it and if it grows or changes, it will need to be removed. It is on top of her toe behind her knuckle - I hope it doesn't have to come off because it seems like it would be hard to leave enough skin to close up the site.

[dmswartzfager]

I just booked a campground on the Outer Banks for the end of June - got a sound-side site specifically so Symbra would be able to lounge about in the water (she likes going into the water, but only if there are no/little waves). Really looking forward to really getting away and checking out all the dog-friendly stuff down there.

[krissn333]

Sounds fun! Looking forward to Symbra pics!

[Zoolady]

Update on Ben: He had his fifth chemo yesterday and did well. He's still wagging his tail when he gets there and he's greeted like royalty. We have added reglan to his rimadyl and he's back to finishing his meals. Oncologist says his muscle mass is great as well as his weight and he's doing fine.

[krissn333]

Ben

Edited May 24, 2012 by krissn333

[Charlies_Dad]

Great news for Ben!!! Keep it up buddy.

[Guest snakes]

FedX and I went over to Angell today to have our initial consult to be all set up for when/if he needs more pamidronate. I was very pleased, they are very professional and kind. They listened and answered all my questions and the doc gave her thinking/advice on his situation. It was refreshing from our old oncologists office and consultations that i finally got fed up with. We aren't making any changes to his regimen since he is doing so well, but we are all set up if he needs any treatment

[krissn333]

Great news! It is SO important to have a vet that you trust, who has staff that you like. I'm so thankful for that every time we go to our vet's office

[Zoolady]

Ben goes for his fifth Pamidronate tomorrow. His last one he had the leg swelling in four days and we're hoping it doesn't happen again. He's been licking the leg and I put it on the sheet last week when he had chemo. Last Saturday he opened up the leg and by Sunday the size had doubled so off to the emergency room at the hospital for him. They cleaned it up, put him on antibiotic and now he's wearing a muzzle with stool guard when we are not watching him.

 

I spoke to his oncologist today and she said sometimes when they shave them an itch begins. Tomorrow she said they would use an anti-itch powder but if he does start licking to put something like bitter apply on it so he won't lick. She said there are many products out there.

 

I mentioned how tired and sleepy he's been this week. She said they don't get much rest as much is going on in the hospital but with his age, it's okay to let him sleep. This is his fifth round and one more to go, then xrays. He is eating so we're taking that as a good sign. One day at a time....

[Guest snakes]

The last pamidronate treatment FedX had ended up witha skin tear that he made a lot worse by licking, took us 2.5 weeks to fully heal. I had noticed on previous visits the shaved area bothered him. I have an all natural pet skin moiturizing spray that i'd spritz him with and that seemed to help, i got it at PetCo. I also foudn that baby socks with teh feet cut off make good leggings to stop licking

[giadog]

Well, Gia had her final chemo appointment yesterday, and things are going as well as possible for her. X-rays came back clean, and we're going to start the metronomic protocol in a few weeks. I think we're NOT going to do the palladia protocol, just the other two drugs... does anyone have advice/wisdom to share with me about what to expect next?

[greysmom]

A lot of the same. Dude did very well on the metronomic protocol and was his happy, bouncy self for several months. You might consider adding in the homeopathic drug artemisinin as well.

[giadog]

A lot of the same. Dude did very well on the metronomic protocol and was his happy, bouncy self for several months. You might consider adding in the homeopathic drug artemisinin as well.

 

We actually have some artemisinin at the ready... how do we fit that in with the rest of the drugs?

[krissn333]

Pinky is on Piroxicam/Cytoxan/Artemisinin. I give the Piroxicam in the morning with breakfast, the Cytoxan at dinnertime, and artemisinin just before bedtime. Make sure to give the arte with peanut butter or some other fatty thing that isn't meat. Iron messes with the absorption of it or something to that effect. So far Pinky's done fine on that schedule.