christinepi Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Tracker is leash reactive. I walk him with a collar. I've read a few times on this forum about success overcoming the reactivity by switching to a harness, since the pressure on the throat when pulling towards another dog releases adrenalin, and a harness won't do that. I tried that, and it sure didn't work. However, I tried it only once. Is there a possibility of this taking a while to "sink in", because his body/brain has become habituated to the adrenalin release? Not sure whether I have the biology of this right. But anyways--should I use the harness for, say, a week in a row to give it a chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MnMDogs Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm by no means an expert, but it's not as simple as changing from harness to collar or vice versa to train away the leash reactivity. We have a very leash reactive girl (Macy May) and we were using a harness on her - which we learned only made her stronger! It was mentioned many times on here (KenneMom and Batmom come to mind) that the harness really maximizes their pulling power - and it sure does, so we went back to a collar. What we didn't do was incorporate training with this and we've been living with her leash reactivity for years now, and it's only getting worse. We finally met with a trainer today and now I have a much better understanding of why she reacts the way she does (insecurity around non-greys, I'm not making her feel secure, subsequent adrenaline rush... etc). So until you can work on that, changing from one to another will likely not mitigate the underlying reason for his reactivity. I suppose I didn't provide any answers... but I'm not a trainer and I'm trying to learn myself how best to manage Macy May and make her feel secure and safe when we walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christinepi Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I'm by no means an expert, but it's not as simple as changing from harness to collar or vice versa to train away the leash reactivity. We have a very leash reactive girl (Macy May) and we were using a harness on her - which we learned only made her stronger! It was mentioned many times on here (KenneMom and Batmom come to mind) that the harness really maximizes their pulling power - and it sure does, so we went back to a collar. What we didn't do was incorporate training with this and we've been living with her leash reactivity for years now, and it's only getting worse. We finally met with a trainer today and now I have a much better understanding of why she reacts the way she does (insecurity around non-greys, I'm not making her feel secure, subsequent adrenaline rush... etc). So until you can work on that, changing from one to another will likely not mitigate the underlying reason for his reactivity. I suppose I didn't provide any answers... but I'm not a trainer and I'm trying to learn myself how best to manage Macy May and make her feel secure and safe when we walk. If it's ok to ask, would you share what the trainer saw and feels Macy May needs in more detail? F.e. how do you go about making her feel more secure, and what caused the insecurity in the first place? I'm just trying to get better idea of what's potentially going on in Tracker's head--I realize his reasons may be entirely different from Macy May's, but it can't hurt to ask. Edited March 6, 2012 by christinepi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MnMDogs Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'll try - We're working with Mandy Kennedy from Unleashed Dog Training - she's from the Bay Area, so I'm not sure if you know of her. She brought 3 of her dogs and slowly introduced Macy to them in a controlled environment. What she saw - and also what she told me based on our phone call before even meeting her - was that Macy's body language indicated she was fearful (she was actually shaking too) and not making eye contact with the dog(s), while trying to stay as close as possible to me. We were able to introduce her to all 3 dogs separately and she showed that she wasn't a threat to them, which is so hard to reconcile with my big, blustery, bully dog on a leash. This is drastically different from how she acts when being leash walked and we see dogs. She begins to huff and puff (not exaggerating), bounce, growl...you name it, she does it. This is giving her the adrenaline rush you mentioned and no means of corrective action will get her to stop once it starts. So we will be working on very very basic commands - wait, look at me, find it - while we walk (actually before we walk, starting with waiting to leave the house). I believe this follows what Giselle does (I think she was mentioned in another thread you started). My goal is to avoid the escalation of the situation so that she doesn't get that "reward" of the adrenaline rush. It's all things I knew... but I just haven't had the patience to work with her (bad, I know). It really helped to work with Mandy and have my feelings reinforced...that Macy is a good dog, that she does need to get her confidence from me and my husband, and that it's our job to make her feel safe. I'm not sure if you're near a behaviorist, but it may be worth a meeting if you have the time. Ryan and I had been blessed with relatively easy greys, so getting one like Macy has been hard. We kept hoping she'll "fix" herself and be like Matty and Mara were, but that certainly isn't happening! It was nice to have an objective, knowledgeable opinion from an outsider - I also really like her training methods, and empathy to the situation (as well as her not being judgmental of us not doing ANY training with this poor dog). Ok, so looking back to your question - I don't know what made her insecure in the first place. She's only fearful/aggressive to non-greys. She raced until she was 5, and probably only knew greys until we adopted her at 5 and a half, so it may be that. As far as making her feel more secure, I may have mentioned it in my rambling up above, but that should all come with us being more structured with our walks - wait to come outside (then praise reward), divert attention when we see a dog and reward her attention to us not the dog. We also have always let her run the walks - so we are to try to keep her at our side, on one side with little diversion. I feel so bad that we never provided her the structure she needed to be a good dog and a secure dog. But again, we really thought just being with us would make her feel safe... not so much with her. I hope this helps a bit Please feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. Hopefully this week will be the turning point for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DragonflyDM Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Tracker is leash reactive. I walk him with a collar. I've read a few times on this forum about success overcoming the reactivity by switching to a harness, since the pressure on the throat when pulling towards another dog releases adrenalin, and a harness won't do that. I tried that, and it sure didn't work. However, I tried it only once. Is there a possibility of this taking a while to "sink in", because his body/brain has become habituated to the adrenalin release? Not sure whether I have the biology of this right. But anyways--should I use the harness for, say, a week in a row to give it a chance? I love my harness, and I think Boomer does to. I sometimes cheat with a collar and leash, but there is nothing more comfortable than a good harness. i use a quick release one from Petco that comes on in less than 20 seconds and off in less than 2 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytlucy Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I've used an Easy Walk harness on my reactive dog for the last two years. I've found he relaxes better in the harness...though the difference can be very subtle. In the past couple months we've started to make real progress on the reactivity and I've started transitioning him back to the collar. I keep the harness on him right now so if his stress/stimulus levels get too high I can switch him back. The last two days we were able to stay on the collar the entire walk. I don't really like the harness as one of his issues is he's prone to chase cars(and everythign else that moves) and I don't like the lack of control over the front end in the harness when he does react to something. That said it's been a real useful tool to teach him to relax on leash to begin with. It's definitely worth giving it a few more tries and watching for any difference. If you do try the harness again, consider the front closing ones vs the ones that attach on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christinepi Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I've used an Easy Walk harness on my reactive dog for the last two years. I've found he relaxes better in the harness...though the difference can be very subtle. In the past couple months we've started to make real progress on the reactivity and I've started transitioning him back to the collar. I keep the harness on him right now so if his stress/stimulus levels get too high I can switch him back. The last two days we were able to stay on the collar the entire walk. I don't really like the harness as one of his issues is he's prone to chase cars(and everythign else that moves) and I don't like the lack of control over the front end in the harness when he does react to something. That said it's been a real useful tool to teach him to relax on leash to begin with. It's definitely worth giving it a few more tries and watching for any difference. If you do try the harness again, consider the front closing ones vs the ones that attach on the back. Is the Easy Walk a front closing one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I switched to a harness for Fletcher, who is very leash reactive to non greys, and very big (90lbs). I feel that it gives me better control (I also use a leash with a "handle" so I can hold him on a short leash). I was also worried he would injure his neck as he would leap, twist, lunge on the end of the leash. I don't know that the harness has made in real difference in his reactivity, although his current one has the "no pull" ring in the front. If I used that it might help So, for me, it's a matter of control (for me) and safety (no injury) for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The collar just may not be a trigger for your dog. Zuri isn't a typical dog reactive dog per se, but with time he's become more defensive when meeting new dogs, especially little ones that tend to jump or climb in his face and over time, the collar has become a trigger for him, but I know it's because of me and my nerves in these situations. So I'm much more choosy about allowing leashed intros only with dogs who appear to be very well socialized and then calling Zuri away after only a few seconds of greeting and rewarding him to avoid any tenseness. Anyway, all of that to say that often times the collar reactivity is at least to some extent learned, not purely physiological. It wouldn't hurt to try the harness for longer, but really you just need to be consistent with the training that I posted about in the other thread and avoiding situations where he'll react in the meantime. Also, I may have already mentioned it there, but Emma Parson's book Click to Calm is an excellent resource. Although what would be ideal for you would be to find a dog reactive dog workshop or class. The ability to work with your dog under the guidance of an experienced trainer in a controlled setting where you can do repeated set-ups with other dogs at the distance your dog is comfortable with is invaluable. I have to imagine there are some in your area. Here Pat Miller does them under the name Reactive Rover and there is a Feisty Fido program that various trainers teach through I believe. Emma Parsons does them up in CT, etc. I would just start looking around online. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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