kudzu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sigh. Remind me, everyone, that it's sometimes two steps forward and one step back. ... I'm doing OK really, aren't I? You are doing wonderfully. Bad days arise. Good days do as well.Sometimes, like the day that started this thread, it is actually three or four steps forward. Other times, like your recent eventful walk, it feels more like three or four steps back. It truly is two steps forward one step back overall but the back sliding makes it feel worse than that. Please don't be discouraged. Keep it up. You have a wonderful goal ahead of you of having nonreactive, muzzleless dogs. All the steps forward toward that goal are worth every effort. Your dogs will be all the safer & happier for your work even if the ultimate goal seems along way off or even unlikely at times. I truly admire people to work towards this & put in the time to help their dogs. You have earned my respect, that is certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Don't want to be a downer here, but if your girl has high prey drive with small fluffy dogs now, what makes you think you can override thousands of years of instinct? With all due respect, I think the goal is achievable as long as the goal is a dog who can safely walk down the street on lead without molesting the pocket pooches. Dogs can learn to keep those instincts in check with if conditioned to with training & repetition so they learn to somewhat tune the little fluffballs & yappers out. That doesn't mean you could turn those dogs loose to run free around the morsel dogs. That would, I believe, be asking too much. Could there be dogs with so much prey drive that you simply could never walk them around the bitties without a muzzle? Certainly possible but those Greys would be in the minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Don't want to be a downer here, but if your girl has high prey drive with small fluffy dogs now, what makes you think you can override thousands of years of instinct? Even if you get her to the point that she will listen to you and not snap/lunge at the little ankle biters, I would be willing to be that should she see one in an open field running, you could yell and call her all you wanted, she's going to do what nature has put into her DNA. As well as what happens when you are out walking, and suddenly out of under a car, or some bushes along the sidewalk a target (small fluffy) darts out between her legs before you can say anything? She's going to go into instinct mode. Heck my greyhounds that are good with ankle biters would probably lunge at a small target if it darted out from beneath a car or bushes, its their nature. Some greyhounds simply cant be around little dogs, or cats, or bunnies, or birds, etc. I do understand your issue with the muzzle, I find it rediculous as well, but a law is a law. I would just keep working with her for your own bonding and fun, not to try to get the muzzle off her. A muzzle really isnt that big of a deal, they can eat and drink through the muzzle. So she has to wear it when outside, they are used to it. Its really the human that has the issue with the muzzle, not the hound. All true, and I accept that PK will never be entirely trustworthy. However, she's stopped fixating and her reactions are much less now, so we're working towards a goal of walking down the street without fixating or lunging at small dogs. Given six weeks ago we lunged at ALL dogs and she's learned I don't think I'm being overly ambitious. She will never be allowed unleashed near any small dogs (although keeping unleashed small dogs away from her is proving a challenge) and cats, rabbits, chickens and other small creatures will never be safe. To become unmuzzled she needs to be non-reactive to a small fluffy on the other side of a fence so it can be seen but not touched, and then, if that works, unreactive without the fence. I'm hoping this is achieveable, but if it isn't, we're still proud and happy to be her humans. Thanks for the support guys! The walk this morning was better. Met our nemesis - a very reactive JRT not once, but twice. First time, big reaction from the girls. Second time, I saw them coming from further off and the other owner actually put her dog back on leash so there was no reaction until we went past. Strange how brave everyone gets when 20 metres away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 And then, back to 'normal'. Met lots of small fluffies this morning, but I managed to stay calm and institute my plan. Leashes shortened so girls are beside me, me between them and the other dogs, lots of chatting in a sing-song high pitched voice telling they are good girls then lots of praise for the right reaction (being no reaction). And it worked. PKL gave one dart and a small whine before looking back at me and coming back to my side. Booster lots of interest but no shoulder dislocation. Cats and lizards are a different story though. And those I'm not as worried about. Given that we just need to get to the stage of being less reactive on leash, and PK will never run with other breeds if I can help it, things are looking slightly brighter. christinepi, how's Tracker going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christinepi Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thanks for asking! Haven't really looked for a class yet, but will ask when I get to the pet store tomorrow. But before I even sign him up I feel the need to watch how this teacher works with dogs. We don't have many choices in the boonies, and I want it to be the right fit, but if that person wasn't to my liking, I'd go it alone somehow. Like I mentioned earlier, I discovered that when I practice emergency U-turns in the beginning of the walk, when he's all high strung and excited and just wants to run run run (in essence being very close to threshold already), it goes really well. He'll come with me immediately, wolf down the treat, and even listen to my "wait" before I let him run again in the original direction. And we've worked on Heel. This goes so well that I'm thinking they used the word at the track when they walked him, which would make sense. So that part is going well. We do that a lot. Ultimately I would like to try first is working with a trainer one on one who has some non reactive dogs to "set him up" with, so we can work in a controlled fashion. I think that's the best way to raise his threshold. I already put out the question to one, so we'll see. . Just got "Click to Calm" in the mail yesterday. We've encountered the occasional dog the last few days from some distance, and he didn't even look at them much. But they weren't looking at him or crossed the road before he reached threshold. With him, the biggest factor is is the other dog making eye contact or not. If not, he generally will ignore the other dog. It sure sounds you've made headway! Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 I wanted to update this thread, because only greyhound owners understand...... PK hadn't been to obedience for some time, with bringing Booster along and busy weekends. It had therefore been about 4 weeks. So yesterday she was loaded into the car and we headed off. She was immensely stressed when we got there, unable to focus on me and constantly whining and giving her little roos that she does when she's anxious about other dogs. She wouldn't look at me and kept backing away from me to get into the centre of the group of dogs to be able to see everything. About half way through the class, something changed. Sjhe still wouldn't do anything (like sit, down, recall) but she wasn't calling out any more and she began taking treats from em and looking at me. Then we had to do the dreaded weaving walk between other dogs trying to keep her attention. This has been our downfall in the past. To my delight, after getting very excited going past one small fluffy, and us circling several times to regain control and focus, she walked past a further three with no problems. Then they had to walk past us. She never took her eyes off me, and completely ignored them! I know this isn't the end of the road, but this is really such a big step forward for us (though an equally big one backwards is likely in the near future) that I had to share. Teenie tiny steps..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christinepi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I wanted to update this thread, because only greyhound owners understand...... PK hadn't been to obedience for some time, with bringing Booster along and busy weekends. It had therefore been about 4 weeks. So yesterday she was loaded into the car and we headed off. She was immensely stressed when we got there, unable to focus on me and constantly whining and giving her little roos that she does when she's anxious about other dogs. She wouldn't look at me and kept backing away from me to get into the centre of the group of dogs to be able to see everything. About half way through the class, something changed. Sjhe still wouldn't do anything (like sit, down, recall) but she wasn't calling out any more and she began taking treats from em and looking at me. Then we had to do the dreaded weaving walk between other dogs trying to keep her attention. This has been our downfall in the past. To my delight, after getting very excited going past one small fluffy, and us circling several times to regain control and focus, she walked past a further three with no problems. Then they had to walk past us. She never took her eyes off me, and completely ignored them! I know this isn't the end of the road, but this is really such a big step forward for us (though an equally big one backwards is likely in the near future) that I had to share. Teenie tiny steps..... Sounds fantastic! You must be so thrilled. Doesn't it feel great when it finally clicks?? Working with Tracker I discovered something today (duh! Why not 2 years ago??) which is offering him a treat he hasn't had before, which is TURKEY BURGER. Even though there was a dog in the distance he glued his attention to he would EAT many many offered treats, which he never would have otherwise (threshold crossed and treat not interesting enough), even though I've always over him yummy things like cheese, hot dogs etc. So that's progress. I also started on clicker training again, to help him understand he can make choices instead of shutting down. I've not been successful at shaping his behavior in the past, but I think I set the bar too high. Anyway, no luck with classes where I am. One would have started in March but had to be cancelled for lack of interest. And that's all there is in this town. I'll keep my fingers crossed for your girl and you. Keep us posted! Edited April 2, 2012 by christinepi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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