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Snapping Out Of Nowhere


Guest dougbb

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I know there have been several posts on the topic of snapping, and I've read most of them. Still, I wanted reassurance that our dog's behavior is normal, and some advice on how to go about from here on out!

 

Last night, my boyfriend was petting our half-asleep greyhound, Doug, on Doug's bed in our bedroom. We've had Doug for about a month and he's been only sweet and affectionate. We pet him on his beds all the time, and usually he does that pawing, "wait, keep petting me!" thing when we stand up. Anyway, I soon joined the petting, and I noticed that Doug was breathing very quickly. I thought maybe he had GI pain from some new treats (and, in fact, he's had diarrhea twice this morning), but didn't think more about it. Anyway, after a bit of petting, my boyfriend leaned over to kiss Doug on the forehead-- and got majorly snarled and snapped at!

 

This shocked us, since we have never seen this side of Doug. Some background: I work from home and, though Doug is a velcro dog, he's only a velcro dog with me. Whenever I've tried to close the door and keep him out, he whines and whines. Doug follows all of my directions -- go lie down, come here, wait, etc. -- and generally seeks me out for affection. When I leave to teach or for meetings and my boyfriend is home, Doug will stand at the front door whining unless my boyfriend brings him to another room with him and closes the door. Though Doug can be affectionate with my boyfriend, he tends not to follow his orders unless I'm there confirming them. He also doesn't generally seek out my boyfriend's affection, which I think my boyfriend takes personally. :P Earlier in the evening, while I was working, my boyfriend and Doug came back from a walk when Doug found a bully stick that we had accidentally left out (very exciting!). When my boyfriend tried to take the leash off, Doug got growled at him -- maybe the third time we've experienced Doug growling over food. (The other two times were with me, and also with bully sticks.) This spooked my boyfriend so much that he just left the leash on until I came home. (He grew up with some very aggressive dogs and tends to back away when growling begins.)

 

Anyway, let's just say that these series of events -- growling and snapping -- have seriously shaken my boyfriend's confidence around Doug. Though he loves the dog, he's admitted to being a bit scared of him. I told my boyfriend that we clearly were pushing Doug's boundaries w/r/t his bed and didn't even realize it, but he also thinks that Doug doesn't respect him and that I should be stricter about not letting him follow me all over the house. We have this weekend free and I would like my boyfriend to spend time doing basic obedience training with Doug, which I think will help him gain Doug's trust. I especially want Doug to feel comfortable with my boyfriend and vice versa because I'll be out of town for four nights next weekend, leaving my boyfriend alone with the dog.

 

So, a few things here: should we from here on out not touch Doug when he's on his bed? What kind of obedience training should my boyfriend do with Doug? How do I teach a velcro dog to be secure alone? Is it OK to just close the door between us from time to time throughout the day? (I've taught him sit-stay and with that can leave the room for up to a minute, and I've implemented many of the NILIF techniques.)

 

Oh, one more thing: after Doug snapped, we spoke in the Voice of God, and my boyfriend took him out of the room and closed the bedroom door, mostly so we could discuss exactly what happened after the initial shock. Though Doug whined a bit at the bedroom door, he actually went and lied down in the living room -- the first time he's ever just given up with a door closed on him. After fifteen minutes, we opened the door, my boyfriend retrieved Doug, pet him (while standing of course!), and that was that.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice, anecdotes, etc.!!

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Never touch a new greyhound when they are lying down on their beds. He hasn't been in your home long enough and doesn't really know you. He has to develop some trust in you before you can do things like this and you definitely never, ever touch a dog who is either half asleep or totally asleep when on their bed. When you said his breathing got rapid, he was probably falling asleep and dreaming and you BF startled him. Greyhounds have their own crate their entire racing careers. They are never disturbed in their crates so his behavior is absolutely normal.

 

They have never had to share their food and especially high value treats like bully sticks. Learn to trade up until you get to know each other. Get something of higher value to him, maybe a cookie or hot dog pieces. When he takes that from you, get the bully stick.

 

It's going to take your boy a few months to get adjusted to home life and to you as parents. During this time, take any growl or snap as a communication that what you are doing is making him uncomfortable. All of these issues will probably go away with time. You just have to learn to listen and observe what you are doing that is setting him off.

Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel

Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee

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For a pup who has recently come home, it is recommended you do not lean over him them while they are on their bed, it is their 'safe place'. Also a sleeping Grey (fully asleep or partially) it is better to call their name to wake them up so you do not startle them. Some pups do not want you to even touch them on their beds until they are comfortable with their environment and with you and this can sometimes take weeks or months. Some pups will never be comfortable with this but it sounds like Doug does want attention and will be open to it on his bed in the future but for now, I would allow him to get comfortable. As for the issue with the bully stick, many will chime in with the 'trade up' methodology and this works very well.

Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge.

Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl.

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Guest Greyt_dog_lover

Ok, yes it is "not out of nowhere" it is to be expected when you hover over him to kiss him when he is half asleep. This may sound harsh, but it is 100% unequivically YOUR fault. You made a huge mistake in two ways, first petting him when he is in his safe zone (his bed) and second you hovered over him and put your face to his face (about the most agressive act a dog will do to another dog - face to face). The panting, that was his way of telling you he is anxious and not feeling comfortable, I bet he also was licking his lips, or gave you the "whale eye" (wide open eyes looking sideways at you). Let me cross-post from another thread concerning growling(it is the same thing, you just missed the first few signs):

 

I totally disagree with correcting all growling. You first need to understand WHY they are growling. I have posted in many threads concerning growling with new greyhounds. 99% percent of the time the growling is because of a lack of trust. In humans, we expect our dogs to instantly trust us, no matter what. In all actuality we have to earn the trust from our greyhounds. Is growling bad, no. In fact it is actually a very good safety device. We as humans that have had "dogs" fear growling. We somehow see it as a personal affront, and decide that it cannot be tolerated. So our "dogs" raised as human surrogates, don't growl, they just go to bite. Here is a greyhound's method of communication of anxiety (likely caused by the human doing something wrong, not the hound):

1) exhibit anxious body language (licking lips, head and eyes turned down, tail tucked, whale eye)

2) low growl, sometimes barely audible

3) louder growl, sometimes followed by raising of the lip

4) air snap (intentional biting of the space NEAR a person, but no contact made)

5) actual bite

 

Now, most people are so blind to the natural body language of a dog, that they miss step 1, so what happens then when you take away steps 2 & 3? You have a hound that seemingly goes from normal-happy, to CUJO biting the air. It is very distressing.

 

Do not train your hound not to growl. Learn WHY he/she is growling. You will see it is probably your fault your hound is growling and telling you that they are anxious about what you are doing.

 

Why do they growl? Could be fear (you invade their personal space, hover over them, grab their face and pull it to yours). You must realize that face to face contact in the dog world is actually a very aggressive thing. Greyhounds have been raised as a pack animal, not a human surrogate, so you must realize they have a different language than typical "dogs". They don't know you, they don't understand the rules of being a pet. They don't understand that while you gave them this wonderful prize (bone), you now want to take it away from them? They don't understand when they are sleeping so comfortably, why you would invade their space for any reason other than to hurt them. You must look at life from their perspective. Once you do, you will see how most situations are based in the fact they don't TRUST you. Be it because they don't know the rules of being a pet, be it because you messed up by correcting them one time when they messed in the house and now they see you as something to fear. The fact is, most of the time they don't know.

 

You need to build trust with your hound, with trust, most other issues will disappear. Ways to build trust:

1) hand feed (I recommend this a lot) each meal for 1 month

2) obedience class (also highly recommended)

3) lots of walks

4) play time, such as a lure pole, or throwing stuffies

5) hide and seek game (takes two people and they must know their name)

 

As you have your hound for a longer duration, and you do things to build trust, you will be able to invade their space, take away things without complaint and move them around at will. But you must have trust for these things to work. In the immediate future, I would not give any high-value treats. Should you need to take something away from your hound, trade up with a squeaky toy, or a really good treat. Understand you are not "bartering" with your hound, you are earning trust. You are telling the hound that if he/she does what you want, good things happen. I would also not allow the hound up on furnature until you have basic obedience taken care of and the hound knows the "off" command. Once the hound knows "off" or "down" then you can allow him/her on the furnature and if you get a growl, then simply "off" and they will begin to understand not to grumble when on furnature. You are not teaching them to not growl, you are teaching them when growling is appropriate. See the difference?

 

Chad

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Guest Wasserbuffel

I sounds like you should ease up on the bed-petting, at least for now. Doug sounds like a dog who will accept being messed with on his bed by his humans, but it's still a little too soon for him. Boyfriend should probably spend more time working on training and walking Doug to bond with him. Neither of you should be approaching him when he has a high-value treat like a bully stick until you teach him to trade up, so he learns to see your approaching his awesome food as the indication that he's about to get something even more awesome.

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Guest DragonflyDM

I totally disagree with correcting all growling. You first need to understand WHY they are growling. I have posted in many threads concerning growling with new greyhounds. 99% percent of the time the growling is because of a lack of trust. In humans, we expect our dogs to instantly trust us, no matter what. In all actuality we have to earn the trust from our greyhounds. Is growling bad, no. In fact it is actually a very good safety device. We as humans that have had "dogs" fear growling. We somehow see it as a personal affront, and decide that it cannot be tolerated. So our "dogs" raised as human surrogates, don't growl, they just go to bite. Here is a greyhound's method of communication of anxiety (likely caused by the human doing something wrong, not the hound):

1) exhibit anxious body language (licking lips, head and eyes turned down, tail tucked, whale eye)

2) low growl, sometimes barely audible

3) louder growl, sometimes followed by raising of the lip

4) air snap (intentional biting of the space NEAR a person, but no contact made)

5) actual bite

 

I was going to say almost the same things. What is interesting is how there is a perception that greyhounds are totally different from any dog. They do have marked differences but animal behavior is animal behavior (even people are animals). Always ask yourself "why" your animal is thinking that his actions are justified and you will probably figure out "why" they act the way they do. What is interesting is that once you start to be able to "read" your dog and assertain motivations and thought processes, you can apply that to people. Once you can "read" your dog, you will smack your forhead and go "Oh wow, I just wasn't listening to the language. My dog is telling me so much!"

 

Boomer is my first greyhound but not my first dog. I find it really fascinating how different their behaviors are, but a lot (not all) of that comes from a life on the track, not because they are greyhounds. As I am training my greyhound, I realize that I have to be much more attentive to subtle signals and different ways of communicating-- but all in all it is about listening.

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Guest Wasserbuffel
What is interesting is how there is a perception that greyhounds are totally different from any dog

 

They're not different because they are greyhounds, they're different because of how they are raised. Rather than being separated from their mothers and siblings at a mere eight weeks old and raised by humans, racing greyhounds live with their litters for much longer. This causes them to be much more proficient in "dog" language than most dogs are.

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Chad's advice above is excellent.

 

It really sounds like your boyfriend just went over a line (in Doug's mind) in that specific situation. You have to remember, kissing a dog on its head (even though it's a sign of great affection for us humans) is an extremely aggressive move to a dog who is not used to that sort of thing.

 

As a general rule, it's not a good idea to be touching a dog while he's on his bed, particularly when he's really new (and a month is definitely new). It does sound like Doug is actually ok, to a certain extent, with being touched while on his bed. His pawing at you to continue petting him shows that. But in this case he started to get overwhelmed when you both started petting him at the same time and he started giving signs of this when he started panting. Leaning over him and kissing him on the head just became too much for him.

 

I guess it depends on how conservative you want to be, but I think you can still pet him on his bed, but you need to be really vigilante with paying attention to how he's taking it. Be careful to not lean over the top of him and definitely do not kiss him. Do all the things others have described with earning his trust, doing training, NILIF and over time, you'll see him getting more and more comfortable with you being in his space.

 

Oh, and lastly, I don't think this has much at all to do with Doug not respecting your boyfriend. Like I said above, it was a direct response to the specific situation at hand. I DO think it's a great idea, however, to have your boyfriend build a bond with Doug though walks, training, interacting, etc.

Lima Bean (formerly Cold B Hi Fi) and her enabler, Rally. ☜We're moving West!

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I'm sorry your boyfriend got snapped at...I know how scary that can be, and understand the feelings of mistrust and disappointment that come along with it. I wouldn't disturb him on the bed, and maybe no bully sticks until you've worked with him more. The first step to fixing a problem with a dog that growls is to manage the environment so that he's never in a situation that causes him to do so.

 

Who's feeding and walking Doug primarily? It would be a good idea to have your boyfriend doing both of these things as much as possible (even if you're both at home) for the next month or two. Also have him work with him on a bulk of the obedience work for a little while. I imagine you'll always be Doug's favorite person, but this will help him to form a more favorable opinion of your boyfriend.

 

Two books I would heartily recommend:

 

Calming Signals: On Talking Terms with Dogs

Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs

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Thanks for the advice. Yes, I 100% agree that it was our fault -- we had assumed that, since we had never before seen the typical stress behaviors re: bed petting (panting, "whale eye," etc.,) that he was fine with it. Clearly that isn't the case! And we completely understand why. My boyfriend feels awful, and we definitely will leave him alone on his beds for a long while.

 

We have been giving him bully sticks because he has SA and it's the best thing we can find to distract him as we continue alone training. His limit right now is about 45 minutes alone before the yelping begins, though sometimes noises from outside set him off sooner -- we're still working on this. He's unfortunately not interested in frozen, stuffed Kongs -- too much work to get the good stuff out! (Who ever heard of a lazy greyhound? :) ) We haven't been having trouble getting the bully sticks from him because he usually jumps up to greet us when we come back in the door, and then we sweep in and take them away. I did trade-up training the first two weeks he was here, but I'll have my bf work on that this weekend as well. If growling continues, we'll have to find less high-value treats for alone training. We've been careful not to discourage his growling for the reasons Chad stated.

 

In the meantime, the velcro stuff: any good ways to help a dog feel comfortable alone in a room while his owner is in a different part of the house? Should I do the same alone training techniques, but block him in a room with a dog gate? Or should I approach it as a NILIF issue -- that access to me is the "resource" -- and just wait out the whining from a different room? I just want him to feel confident and secure alone as well as with us -- he's a terrific dog and we want to be good grey parents!

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I think everyone has already covered the current situation so I won't go there. What I'd like to mention is whether you think that your BF will be comfortable staying with the dog for 4 nights while you are away. It sounds like your situation is easily manageable but, it really doesn't depend on my opinion - it is your BF's that counts. And it sounds like he is willing to go to obedience classes so that is really good. You might want to discuss with him what he will be comfortable with and whether you need to make any alternate plans for your trip .. just in case. It might just be talking to the adoption agency and seeing if there is a greyhound savy person available to talk to if he runs into any issues (or even making sure that he knows about this site so he can post any question if he can't get in touch with you

 

Good luck

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I'm sorry your boyfriend got snapped at...I know how scary that can be, and understand the feelings of mistrust and disappointment that come along with it. I wouldn't disturb him on the bed, and maybe no bully sticks until you've worked with him more. The first step to fixing a problem with a dog that growls is to manage the environment so that he's never in a situation that causes him to do so.

 

Who's feeding and walking Doug primarily? It would be a good idea to have your boyfriend doing both of these things as much as possible (even if you're both at home) for the next month or two. Also have him work with him on a bulk of the obedience work for a little while. I imagine you'll always be Doug's favorite person, but this will help him to form a more favorable opinion of your boyfriend.

 

Two books I would heartily recommend:

 

Calming Signals: On Talking Terms with Dogs

Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs

 

Thanks -- it was scary, but it was definitely our fault. Since I mostly work from home, and my boyfriend leaves for work at 9am and returns at 7:30pm, I've been doing the bulk of the walking and feeding. My boyfriend always does the evening walks though. It's a good idea to try to rearrange the feeding/walking schedule so my boyfriend can do most of it. He'll practice trade-up training this weekend along with other basic obedience -- if Doug is still protective of the bully sticks, we'll downgrade to something less exciting for alone training.

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I think for the alone training to be really effective, you need to completely leave the house. If he knows you're around, then of course he's going to want to be near you :). I'm not sure that in the big picture, it's a problem for him to want to be with you when you're home. You just want him comfortable with you leaving altogether. I think the velcro stuff tends to abate over time. If you're really concerned about him being velcro while you're there, I'd just ignore him. Let him be with you, but don't always give him attention. A lot of this will work out over time as he gets used to things. Remember, a month (and even a year) is just a blink of an eye in the big picture. Try not to worry too much about how you're doing here, it's clear that you've thought a ton about how to get Doug integrated into your life, so it's pretty much a guarantee he's going to do great.

Edited by rallyp

Lima Bean (formerly Cold B Hi Fi) and her enabler, Rally. ☜We're moving West!

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Both of my dogs have had pretty clingy personalities. For us, I think it's been a very good thing to have structured "alone time" when I'm home, but dog isn't interacting with me. I feel like if the dog isn't accustomed to being glued to me all the time when I'm home, it won't be such a big deal when I leave. I think the easiest thing would be to teach him "go to your mat/bed/place", and then ask him to do that at various times when you're together at home. Later you can just use the command when you want him out of the way (like when you're cooking for instance).

 

This is more to do with the other issues you mentioned, but I was thinking that you might also be interested in having a behaviorist come in for an in-home consult. The growling behavior you describe is normal, normal, normal, and it sounds very manageable, but you and your boyfriend might find it really helpful to have a professional take stock of the situation and give you some more tailored advice/insight/peace of mind. Just a thought.

Edited by mariah
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I think everyone has already covered the current situation so I won't go there. What I'd like to mention is whether you think that your BF will be comfortable staying with the dog for 4 nights while you are away. It sounds like your situation is easily manageable but, it really doesn't depend on my opinion - it is your BF's that counts. And it sounds like he is willing to go to obedience classes so that is really good. You might want to discuss with him what he will be comfortable with and whether you need to make any alternate plans for your trip .. just in case. It might just be talking to the adoption agency and seeing if there is a greyhound savy person available to talk to if he runs into any issues (or even making sure that he knows about this site so he can post any question if he can't get in touch with you

 

Good luck

 

My boyfriend felt kind of shaken up last night, but just feels bad about the incident today -- he's knows it's a matter of time and trust. Though he has some anxiety, Doug is ultimately a very mild-mannered dog, which is why the snapping was so surprising (but completely understandable). Our rescue group is great, so he'll have that contact and have this forum as well. I think that if over the next few days my bf does nearly all of the walks/feeding, as well as obedience training practice, my days away will go swimmingly.

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Last night, my boyfriend was petting our half-asleep greyhound, Doug, on Doug's bed in our bedroom. We've had Doug for about a month and he's been only sweet and affectionate. We pet him on his beds all the time, and usually he does that pawing, "wait, keep petting me!" thing when we stand up. Anyway, I soon joined the petting, and I noticed that Doug was breathing very quickly. I thought maybe he had GI pain from some new treats (and, in fact, he's had diarrhea twice this morning), but didn't think more about it. Anyway, after a bit of petting, my boyfriend leaned over to kiss Doug on the forehead-- and got majorly snarled and snapped at!

 

One month is waaaay early in your relationship with your dog. I know it's hard when they're all sweet, but take things slow. No more kissing and putting your face near his for a while. He needs to learn to trust you and you and your BF need to learn to trust him. From the description above it sounds like he could have been totally asleep when this incident happened. I can post videos of Ellie breathing quickly with her eyes half open as you describe - she's dreaming. He may have been startled awake and reacted by snapping, which would be totally normal given how new this all is for him.

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Chad and others covered the normal snapping issue: Leaning over dogs (standing or lying down) is dominate behavior in dog language. Let sleeping dogs lie. Pet dog after they are standing up fully alert, etc.

 

I agree to ask your boyfriend to quietly hand-feed meals while he sits on the floor feeding Doug for a few days. Food is so important for dogs, it speeds up trust bond on both sides. Best to feed kibble meal from hands (if you're comfortable with it, otherwise second best is holding bowl in hands).

 

Doug actually seems to be doing remarkably well being with you for such a short time, and being mostly comfortable being alone for 45 minutes. Usually the first 30 minutes of outings is a comfort key many hounds strive to reach. It can take from seconds to minutes for some hounds to "build-up" to that 30 minute time goal. Count yourselves fortunate. ;)

It's also possible that he needs to go potty after 45 minutes. Some hounds hold a reserve in their tank (especially boys), good to give ample potty opportiunities before departures. (Sometimes they pee a greater quantity in their own yard vs. out walking leaving many small pee-mails.)

 

I strongly agree to install a baby-gate to build Doug's confidence of you being out of his sight daily and frequently for short durations while you're inside the home. Especially important if human is often home with dog.

Dogs don't like being completely cut-off from their people by solid closed doors, a baby gate is a nice solution. (Another great sign is that Doug relaxed enough to lie down away from the closed door.) It's common for Greys to follow new owners room to room. They don't want to miss anything, but this can backfire later for some hounds becoming too attached.

 

Try not to "overly touch/pet" the hound during his first couple of months with you. (This helps hounds adjust to new "environment" first, without hyper-attaching, and it helps hound safely "watch" while learning to trust that these strange new people will not harm him/her. Greyhounds are very sensitive, some need more time to simply watch to get to know new people.)

 

The more shared dog duties between you and your boyfriend the better for Doug to learn he is cared for by more than one person = much less hyper-attachment. Later, more physical affection can be offered, after good alone habits are strengthened.

 

Many hounds like non-frozen Kongs much better than frozen Kongs. Try room temperature peanut butter filled Kongs. Personally, I would not leave a hound alone with a Bully Stick. They can be a choking hazard. Others covered the trade-up technique well.

 

If Doug enjoys chewing to relieve boredom: A hard "Durachew" bone made by Nylabone (bacon or chicken flavored) "Souper" size is good for Greyhounds in a semi-flat shape (not a round ball shape) that they can comfortably get their back teeth around. You can smear peanut butter on a Durabone to help encourage interest.

Bonus: Durachews are great to help keep teeth much cleaner. Again the hard Durachews that last for many months, not the edible products.

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Personally, I would not leave a hound alone with a Bully Stick. They can be a choking hazard.

 

Others have covered the main issue well, but I wanted to say ditto to this. My hounds LOVE bully sticks and get them once a week but only when I'm there to supervise.

Edited by vjgrey

Valerie w/ Cash (CashforClunkers) & Lucy (Racing School Dropout)
Missing our gorgeous Miss
Diamond (Shorty's Diamond), sweet boy Gabe (Zared) and Holly (ByGollyItsHolly), who never made it home.

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Others (Greyt_dog_lover, rallyp) have covered the important bits re snapping -- leaning over a dog (especially but not only when he's lying down) is very threatening. OK with some dogs, not OK with others. He may relax out of it in time. I have one here right now who doesn't mind being leaned over for petting, but if there's any hint of "let's examine this sore spot" or similar, he gets *very* uncomfortable.

 

I agree with rallyp re the following you around indoors. I wouldn't be working to try to train that out of the dog -- he's relatively new to your home, and following you around is the way he learns what the various sounds and scents of your household mean. You don't have to acknowledge him, pet him, etc. when he does it, but I certainly wouldn't punish him for it or gate him away from you for that reason -- it serves no good purpose and may disrupt his learning. In my experience, it also has nothing to do with whether the dog will have separation anxiety when you actually leave the premises.

 

Hope your boyfriend is feeling OK about things, and you too. Best luck going forward!

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Thanks for the advice. Yes, I 100% agree that it was our fault -- we had assumed that, since we had never before seen the typical stress behaviors re: bed petting (panting, "whale eye," etc.,) that he was fine with it.

I know you mentioned that he'd enjoyed being petted on his bed, but I can't remember if you said that you also regularly kissed him on the head while he was lying down. The body language involved in leaning over him and getting right in his face can be completely different from just petting. Even if he'd seemed fine with that specific action previously, it is a very intimidating approach for a dog. And when you're that close (even when you're not), it's very easy to miss the more subtle signals of stress, like the calming signals that are described in Turid Rugaas's works. I would highly recommend her book and DVD, and here's a good article that summarizes some of the signals.

 

Even when you're aware of them, calming signals can be easy to miss unless you have a lot of experience and are very familiar with them. It reminds me of the recent incident where the Denver TV news anchor was bitten in the face by a dog on air. The incident was discussed in this thread, and many people thought the dog was enjoying the petting, when he was actually showing signs of stress the entire interaction (which I described in post #29). I don't think that thread includes the actual video of the bite, but the segment was all over the internet, and if you haven't seen it, you can easily find it on a YouTube search.

 

In the meantime, the velcro stuff: any good ways to help a dog feel comfortable alone in a room while his owner is in a different part of the house?

I agree with rallyp and Batmom on this. I've found with my dogs that the velco behavior often decreases on its own as the dog settles in and becomes more comfortable in their new home, which can take a period of months. Rather than forcing separation through training and gates, I believe that how you interact with the dog is more important.

 

For example, if you'd prefer that your dog not follow you from room to room, just ignore him when he does follow you, and go about your business without interacting with him at all. He'll soon learn that there's really nothing interesting going on when you move around the hosue and that it's boring to follow you around. However, if you talk to him, pet him, make eye contact, and otherwise interact with him, you'll be rewarding him for following you around.

 

What is interesting is how there is a perception that greyhounds are totally different from any dog. ...

 

Boomer is my first greyhound but not my first dog. I find it really fascinating how different their behaviors are, but a lot (not all) of that comes from a life on the track, not because they are greyhounds. As I am training my greyhound, I realize that I have to be much more attentive to subtle signals and different ways of communicating-- but all in all it is about listening.

As you and Jayne pointed out, some of the differences we see in retired racing greyhounds is because of how they're raised, not because of their breed. However, all the excellent points Chad summarized in his post apply to all dogs, not just greyhounds. Most of the subtle body language and calming signals are instinctive behaviors that all dogs are born with, but the extent to which they use them depends on how they are raised and their past experiences. If calming signals are not recognized or respected, some dogs stop using them.

 

Many dogs are naturally tolerant of rude (from the dog's perspective) human behavior and have a stable enough temperament to handle unintentionally intimidating approaches. When dealing with dogs like this, people do not learn about natural dog behavior and start to think that this is what all dogs should be like. Dogs that are more sensitive to body language and intimidating approaches get labeled as reactive or aggressive. Many of these dogs have stopped using calming signals because they have been pushed far beyond that, and from the human's perspective, they seem to snap or bite with no provocation. Those who choose to work with dogs like this can learn so much more about what is really normal dog behavior. I'm glad to see that many in the greyhound community recognize that these signals (including growling and snapping) are a part of normal canine communication.

 

Here's a great article that was recently brought to my attention that addresses this concept of normal dog behavior: The myth of “normal” dogs.

Jennifer &

Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On),

Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice

gtsig3.jpg

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Thanks, everyone, for your advice! We had a nice weekend of intermittent obedience drills, and my bf and I are largely steering clear of Doug while he's on his bed. My boyfriend now takes him on the prized, long morning walks, though Doug does still poke at me under the covers like "hey, Mom, I want you to come too!" I've been trying to scale back the affection--granting affection when I call him over, avoiding interaction when he comes over asking for it--and I think everything's working great. His separation anxiety is still hit or miss--one morning we're gone for an hour and he's yelping the whole time, the next we're gone for dinner and come back to a recording of him quiet for an hour, then yelping a bit, then giving up and lying on his bed for another fifteen minutes. He's definitely not calm even during his quiet times alone--as soon as we get home, he rushes, panting, over to his water bowl and drinks for about a minute straight--but I do count this as some progress. I do believe it's just a matter of time.

 

At any rate, thanks again--he'll be great with my boyfriend this weekend!

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Thanks, everyone, for your advice! We had a nice weekend of intermittent obedience drills, and my bf and I are largely steering clear of Doug while he's on his bed. My boyfriend now takes him on the prized, long morning walks, though Doug does still poke at me under the covers like "hey, Mom, I want you to come too!" I've been trying to scale back the affection--granting affection when I call him over, avoiding interaction when he comes over asking for it--and I think everything's working great. His separation anxiety is still hit or miss--one morning we're gone for an hour and he's yelping the whole time, the next we're gone for dinner and come back to a recording of him quiet for an hour, then yelping a bit, then giving up and lying on his bed for another fifteen minutes. He's definitely not calm even during his quiet times alone--as soon as we get home, he rushes, panting, over to his water bowl and drinks for about a minute straight--but I do count this as some progress. I do believe it's just a matter of time.

 

At any rate, thanks again--he'll be great with my boyfriend this weekend!

 

 

Totally normal for a new dog. They all have to get used to being alone. If he's not destroying anything, hurting himself or peeing then odds are pretty good he'll just settle in after a few weeks.

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Guest verthib
1330367307[/url]' post='5177590']

Thanks, everyone, for your advice! We had a nice weekend of intermittent obedience drills, and my bf and I are largely steering clear of Doug while he's on his bed. My boyfriend now takes him on the prized, long morning walks, though Doug does still poke at me under the covers like "hey, Mom, I want you to come too!" I've been trying to scale back the affection--granting affection when I call him over, avoiding interaction when he comes over asking for it--and I think everything's working great. His separation anxiety is still hit or miss--one morning we're gone for an hour and he's yelping the whole time, the next we're gone for dinner and come back to a recording of him quiet for an hour, then yelping a bit, then giving up and lying on his bed for another fifteen minutes. He's definitely not calm even during his quiet times alone--as soon as we get home, he rushes, panting, over to his water bowl and drinks for about a minute straight--but I do count this as some progress. I do believe it's just a matter of time.

 

At any rate, thanks again--he'll be great with my boyfriend this weekend!

I agree with most of the advice, but would add that dogs can sense nervous and scared emotions. They are very sensitive. It's important that your BF act confident, even if inside he isn't feeling it. He needs to not 'feed into' your dogs behavior. Definitely try the trade up technique. I had to do that with Angus and learned about it from folks on here. And it worked. Good luck. I think he'll be fine, he just needs time to settle and adjust, and needs more bonding with your BF.

Do you leave him a kong or treat ball? Do you leave the TV on? Ever thought of adopting a second grey?

Edited by verthib
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