Back From The Vet's Wtih Sammi And...

[Gryffenne]

Warning, this is going to be long.

Backstory leading up to vet visit:

 

This past summer, Sammi got pretty sick, we never actually ever figured out what from-assumed diet/food, but the new vet at the clinic, a grey savy one out of Ohio, did Acupuncture and aqua-puncture on her. One spot specifically that he noticed was causing problems was along her spine, above her kidneys. This is also when she started on TOTW Salmon and went grain free. It cleared up her tummy, her itching and everything else. So she stayed on it mostly. We've tried introducing her back onto what everyone else eats after allergy season was over, and each time she got to the 60/40 blend of the 2 foods, the itching started. So she is staying grain free until I can get a chest freezer and put her back on Raw.

 

So, last week, Sammi started having issues. I posted this on Feb 1 in another thread:

 

Sammi also has started panting. yesterday was unseasonably warm, and she felt hot, so I cooled the house off for her, since I was overheating until I changed into a tee shirt & scrub pants from my fleece. Drinking lots of water, too.

 

Her stools were normal, so were her pee breaks. No straining either time. No attempts to vomit. She ate b'fast and lunch fine, turned her nose up at dinner. THAT is very strange for her, as she is extremely food motivated. She ate a piece of cheese I handed her tho, so thought maybe she just doesn't like that dog food, or if she was feeling under the weather, didn't feel like eating.

 

No pacing. Well, unless you consider getting up from one sleeping spot and going to get a drink of water then coming over to me to pant on me while I pet her and then laying back down again to be pacing,, that is her normal "in between napping spots" routine.

 

Bedtime came with her accepting her bedtime biscuit less than enthusiastically, but still plopped down on her bed in my room with it like every night.

 

This morning, ate half of her b'fast, normal potty break of 1 & 2, and started up her panting again. House is NOT hot, I am chilled in my tee shirt. No GSODS, tensing, pulling away or any signs of pain/discomfort when I felt her abdomen and tuck area. Her abdomen feels a bit firm, so heading out to grab some Gas-X for her.

 

Her only signs of issues are: slightly firm tummy, not rock hard. On and off panting. Slightly above normal water consumption. Slightly off on her food. Warm between her front legs/armpits areas.

 

Now, as an added question, I know that dogs can catch some Upper Resp bugs from us, can the catch other ones? We had a nasty stomach bug go through this house in the past 2 weeks. When i had it, i had body aches, stomach/lower abdomen pain (like PMDD cramps, but just above where those normally radiate from) excessive thirst, slight fever, no appetite. I only had the human D for 1 day of it. Basically everything that all of us that got the bug had, she's displaying.

Well, I gave her the Gas-X and her panting slowed a bit, but still present on and off. The next day, tho...

 

 

Since I hadn't slept well in ... well, a while, due to me being sick, then my son, then worrying about Sammi. To top it off, my joints have been killing me since I was sick. So I decided to take advantage of a kid free house and indulge in a nap with Sammi. Woke up an hour later when she hopped off the bed and screamed her head off I jumped off the bed and landed on my knees next to her-forgetting about my pain for the time being, will deal with my ticked off knees later.

 

She was holding up her back leg -the one that was broken 6 yrs ago that ended her career and started her retirement- and whimpering. I check her nails, thinking that they might have gotten caught in my afghan. All nails intact. Checked joints/mobility. Normal range of motion. Felt up by her hips and down her thigh, massaging as I go feeling for any strain/pain/anything to clue me into what on Earth just happened. Well, after a few minutes of this, she let me put her foot down on the floor, but she is holding it pretty limp. In fact, her foot touched the ground and the toes/foot curled under. She stood like that for a couple seconds and then corrected her foot and put full weight on it. I wondered if maybe her leg fell asleep on her. Nap's over, we continue on with our day. That evening, as she hopped off of the couch, the same thing occurred. The panting has also been happening on and off this day, so now I am concerned that it isn't heat or gas, it's pain causing her panting. I check the house and NO baby aspirin is left anywhere. All we have are meds that contain Ibuprofen, Acetaminophen and whatever the Norco's are comprised of. I run to the store and grab canine med/large breed Aspirin (link below shows brand and strength), see that her preferred recipe of TOTW is in, she wasn't really enthusiastic about the one she was eating because they were out of her Salmon, and also a stronger Gluco/Chon blend made for senior dogs, since she was lvl2, I upgraded her to lvl 3:

 

This stuff is 300mg?!

 

 

I don't handle aspirin very well, so I am unfamiliar with doses of it, since I do not take it and neither does my son. I admit to being guilty of assuming it was okay for dogs at that strength because it was made for dogs and going by the weight guide, meaning she took 2 of them. I already feel guilty enough over that disaster, I only included it, and the link, so others don't make that same mistake. AS it is, the vet told me today that because of the aspirin, he isn't concerned much about Thrombus now.

 

The next morning (Friday) she took another dose of 2 pills. No panting all day, no issues apparent with her leg. (tho, later I discovered that I was lucky she didn't just fall over from all the aspirin.)Her appetite is back in full bloom, she is happy, content and being herself. That night, I happened to catch a Bayer commercial on TV and caught the dosage amount... and then I freaked out. :eek Ran to the kitchen and checked the canine aspirin, praying that it said 30mg, not 300. Call the vet. He almost falls out of his chair when he heard she was getting 600mg. Says no more aspirin until Saturday evening, and then, no more than 1/2 of a pill and if needed. Also, as much water as she wants to drink, she can have. (Which she gets access to 24/7 anyways) We're to call him back Monday morning with an update. Weekend passes uneventfully, yes she was panting Sat night, so half a pill was hers with dinner, and each consecutive dinner until last night. We called Monday and he felt that it wasn't urgent, so arranges a vet appointment for today.

 

Still with me? okay, now that the backstory is done, here is what was discovered today:

I have been worried sick, now for almost a week. As I am sure you can guess what word was running through my head the past week, as it was probably running through most of your minds while reading this far. In fact, after listening to my rundown of what happened with her leg, and checking it (slight swelling around the affected hock) the vet looked up at me and stated, "You can breathe, Cancer is at the bottom of my list right now." *whoooosh!* and I release the breath that I think I was holding for 7 days.

 

We discuss the usual suspect, Arthritis. He says, that if I want peace of mind that he can have her scheduled for an xray of the leg to be sure that there is nothing there. He would like one anyways because I couldn't recall if pins were put in or not. I say yes, that I would like that very much. And then I ask if he could check her hips as well, since she has had issues on the hardwood floors where she's done a wishbone-style splits with her back legs a few times. That got his attention very quickly.

 

He checks her hips out, and then her spine. That same spot where she had issues this summer is problematic today. She tried wiggling away, ducking, squatting, anything to get away every time he checked that spot. Then he does a test with her feet. Remember when I said that her foot touched down, toes first, and curled and she stood there for a moment? He did the same thing to her and she stood like that for about 10 seconds before correcting it herself. Not Normal. It is a Proprioceptive issue- she isn't aware, fully, of her back legs/feet.

 

(I recreated it at home and took a picture. Please ignore the dog hair, I think the huskies were WWE style wrestling while we were at the vets )

 

(trying to remember all the correct terms here, my apologies if I butchered them)So now he is concerned about a peripheral neuropathic issue and/or arthritis in/on/around her spinal cord causing it. He did mention, that thanks to my idiocy with the Aspirin, as of right now, he is not too concerned about Thrombus (Blood clots) causing the leg issues. Also discovered that, unlike other greys from the food threads that have lsot weight on TOTW, Sammi did not lose weight. She gained it. Lil porker went from 78 to 89 pounds also what could have acerbated problem.

 

 

So now, she is first, on a diet, and second, she is on Novox (gen. Rimadyl) starting tomorrow night- 48 hours after the last dose of Aspirin. Every few days I am to do the foot test on her and also to try to set up an obstacle course for her (thinking of letting the kids dig out DS's old Thomas trains & tracks and let them have a track building party in the living room) to see if there is any improvement to her proprioception. On the 23rd she goes in for her xrays. (ETA~ Also remaining on her Gluc/Chon blend as well)

 

 

So... for anyone that made it all the way through this novel... any advice? Thoughts? Anyone else been through this before?

 

 

Thank you for any help and for reading all of this. Took me 2 hours to write it all out. I don't think I am fully relaxed yet, even tho the C word is not a concern of the vet's atm, and at the bottom of his list. I don't think I will cross it off my list until I see the xrays.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Gryffenne

[XTRAWLD]

Nothing to advise but OMG and

 

Sending good thoughts your way.

 

From what I recall in humans, there is something involved with the brain that causes the feet to invert under themselves. I'm only familiar with that because something recently has been happening with my brother, which I suspect but doctors have ruled out. I wish I could remember what it's called, but do you think it is something cognitive?

Edited February 9, 2012 by XTRAWLD

[GeorgeofNE]

Did you discuss lumbar spinal stenosis? Knuckling under is one of the symptoms, and is what George did that led me to seek a specialist.

 

You might also ask about Gabapentin for nerve pain. George takes 50 mg Rimadyl in the AM and 100 mg Gabapentin in the PM, and so far is doing really quite well.

[PrairieProf]

I have no experience but I have a neighbor (former vet tech) with a greyhound whom I recently learned has the following issue -- does this seem possible?

 

"the main problem is the nerve fibers to her back legs have lost the myelin sheath and she doesn't know where her feet are. She is on Cholodin (acetylcholine and vitamins) which helps but if she misses even one pill I can tell."

[sabrina]

Hope the result of the xrays is b9 & Sammi gets better

[Gryffenne]

We didn't discuss LSS directly, but he did ask me if her foot ever did that on it's own that I was aware of. Except for the 2 times on the 2nd where it was like her foot fell asleep, the only other times I have seen her foot fold under and her stay like that was when it's manipulated to do it- vet's office, me at home.

 

 

The X-Rays are the first step in the path to narrowing down what is causing the propriception issues. There is something up with that part of her spine above her kidneys, he wants to see what is there and then work his way up.

 

 

I'll be definitely taking notes on everything suggested!

[krissn333]

Just a side note about the food...as you've learned you really don't have to feed a lot of TOTW to keep weight on them. Mine eat about 1 1/2 cups twice a day and that's all it takes to maintain their weight. I'd have to feed 2-2 1/2 cups of something else to get the same result.

 

I hope you can get some answers soon - it's scary stuff!

[Gryffenne]

Just a side note about the food...as you've learned you really don't have to feed a lot of TOTW to keep weight on them. Mine eat about 1 1/2 cups twice a day and that's all it takes to maintain their weight. I'd have to feed 2-2 1/2 cups of something else to get the same result.

 

I hope you can get some answers soon - it's scary stuff!

She was eating a total of 3 cups in a day, plus a bedtime biscuit (to shut her up so she will sleep ) Going to try cutting her back to 1/2 cup am & pm and keeping lunch at 1c to see if that helps (and instead of a whole bedtime biscuit, 1/2 of one). When she has her Xrays in 2 weeks will get her weighed again and see how that works out.

[Guest Gemma]

Just wanted to add: if the panting continues while she's on the Rimadyl generic, you might want to try her on Tremadol. Peyton has leg and back pain and Rimadyl didn't truly touch it. He's doing wonderfully with the Tremadol, though.

 

Good luck to you and Sammi!

[silverfish]

I can think of only two things to mention. One is that recent studies have appeared to suggest that people who regularly take aspirin to prevent circulatory problems can end up having strokes anyway, but bleeders rather than clots. I have a horrible suspicion that this is why my mother - who never, ever took an unnecessary drug in her life until she was mid-eighties - had a very sudden massive brain bleed. She had begun taking daily aspirin. I'm just wondering if the issues Sammi is having might be partly down to a bleed somewhere. Perhaps talk to the vet about that one.

 

The other thing, probably more useful, is that our first grey did the splits on the kitchen floor one day, hurt himself badly and had ongoing issues including mild knuckling. I asked for a referral to our nearest vet school, where a vet took x-rays, ultrasound etc and did a phone consult with a colleague in Australia before coming back to tell me that Jim had torn his tensor fascia lata, a small muscle partly responsible for hip abduction. He said there was an op they could do but it was only about 50% successful. I said no to that, and we managed him with reduced exercise and pain control until he had recovered as much as he was going to. He limped for several months, then it went away until he got old, when it returned. It wasn't much trouble to him though.

 

I have also known dogs who wouldn't straighten out the foot after the vet placed it like that because they were being drama queens. The usual way they test greyhounds here is to fold up the foot, hold it for up to a minute, then release and immediately have someone trot the dog away from the vet so he can observe the gait.

[Gryffenne]

Definitely writing all these suggestions down in her journal

 

 

Here's an interesting question:

 

Can she use a heating pad safely?

 

The reason I ask, is that I was sitting at my desk with a heating pad on my abdomen (PMDD level cramping) and got up for a few minutes to help my roommate's daughter with her math homework. I hung the pad over the arm of my chair which has Sammi's bed right next to it, and then the blanket over the heating pad(Sammi was on the couch at the time). When I sat back down, she moved to her bed while I was situating myself. I didnt think much of it, her nesting my blanket and her bed up like she always does Until I went to grab my heating pad and remembered it was under that blanket.

 

I look over and by now Sammi has herself arranged so that the heating pad is behind her, along her spine. I grab it and she gives me the most pitiful stare. So, being a sucker, I turn it on the loweest setting and gently drape it to hit her spine and the hock in question (it's a large heating pad ) and used my sweatshirt to lightly weigh it enough to keep it in place for her. As I was writing this, she sighed contentedly twice and snuggled further into her little nest.

[krissn333]

I don't see a problem with a heating pad...I wouldn't recommend using it for more than 15-20 minutes at a time though.

 

I regularly use my rice bag heated up for dog aches and pains

[XTRAWLD]

Heat away as long as you are supervising, dont see that as a problem. You know how good it feels on you, right?

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

Ella had severe back leg weakness in her last year. It wasn't painful so pain meds never worked, it was like her brain couldn't control her back end anymore. The vet put her on high doses of Vitamin E which helped tremendously. If I skipped doses, she could barely walk. It was neurological. She was fine for about a year after on the Vitamin E, but 2 months short of her 15th birthday, the vitamins stopped working.

 

I hope you get to the bottom of it. I know it can be very frustrating when you don't have a clear answer. Hugs, hope he feel better soon.

[HopeForHounds]

How is Sammi doing today?

 

Jake has nerve issues in his back end plus arthritis in his hips. We started him on Cartrophen shots (similar to adequan) in October and he does well on them, but they are for the arthritis. He's been on meloxacam for quite a while, but his whole back end was sinking,and he does knuckle off and on. That seems to be from nerves in his spine being affected. In December on the advice of Dr Shelley Lake we started him on Gabapenten, and what a difference. So much so that he has now successfully managed to go a full 4 weeks between shots rather than the less desireable 3 weeks.

 

He walks with a very different gait now, he rolls his hips and stomps his feet down BUT his is fully mobile and actually bounds out and back in with glee. I once in a while hear a foot drag on the slider door frame, but don't see the knuckling at all now. Yay for Gabapentin. I don't know if this would help Sammi, but it's worth discussing with your vet.

[Gryffenne]

First full day on the Rimadyl. So far, nothing too notable. Well, except for the fact she knows what a heating pad is and will seek it out.(Roommate has been using one on her legs on the couch and every time she would get up, Sammi would jump on the couch, pull the fleece blanket away to uncover the heating pad and plop down on it, and this is after failed attempts to pull it off of her with her foot on the cord )

 

 

ETA~ Is a side effect of the drug, gas? Wheewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!

Edited February 12, 2012 by Gryffenne

[krissn333]

Not sure about gas as a side effect, but that is just so cute that she steals the heating pads!

[FountainLady]

I have no medical advice to give - just sending hugs to sweet, sweet Sammi