Senior Grey With Heart Murmur Having Dental Surgery

[Guest Alichou]

My greyhound will be 12 in June of this year and needs all of his teeth extracted. He is incredibly healthy and used to have regular dentals however when we moved to Calgary and went through with our last dental in 2007, the vet stopped surgery midway due to the fact Dante had a heart murmur. We then took him to special care to have an ultra sound and everything came back good and normal. My vet will no longer put Dante under for teeth extractions and we have been doing course therapy (antibiotics for 7 days each month). I decided to take him to a surgeon to get a second opinion this year because if I dont do antibiotics on time each month, his mouth swells and he gets a bad infection. The vet/surgeon recommended doing surgery, based on the fact that the 2007 ultra sound was good and also his bloodwork came back good. This of course is very expensive and is going to cost around 3000, but that's fine as long as he's going to be healthy. I just wanted suggestions/advice on the fact that he's going to be going under for this surgery because I've heard that surgery for a senior with a heart murmur should if possible, be avoided. What are your thoughts? I should also mention that back in 2005 he went under for a dental cleaning and also had a heart murmur, but the vet seemed experienced enough to carry through smoothly and Dante came out of surgery just fine. Also the surgeon who will be doing the procedure in March, also has a dog that is part greyhound and he seems very educated on the greyhound breed. Any thoughts or advice on this subject is much appreciated.

 

Ali

[Tallgreydogmom]

I have my 12 year olds and up on the pulse therapy (antibiotics for 7 days each month) if they have bad teeth. I would not risk surgery on mine. That is just my thought on it.

[mychip1]

Our 11 year old EZ had 17 teeth removed when he was eight. Now the other teeth are a mess....but he has a heart murmer. He's on some meds for it. We will not do the dental. Our vet says it "could" be done, but he would not do it himself - and would only have it done at a veterinary hospital with a heart specialist on hand during the anesthesia. That sounds way to risky for us....so we use antibiotics as needed...not gotten to the point of once per month...more like once every two or three months when he gets an infection....but our feeling is if his tooth issues shorten his life by a few months somewhere down the road, it's better than taking the risk on ending it now while he still has a nice quality of life.

 

 

Best wishes to you as you make this decision.

[Guest Alichou]

Thanks. It's a hard decision. I think he's constantly in discomfort and that's my concern. I don't want him to be in pain. Sometimes an infection will set in before the due date for his pills. As soon as I give him the antibiotic the infection goes away. I also worry about him becoming immune to the antibiotics since he has to have them each month. I wouldn't want them to eventually stop working.

[mychip1]

Do you give them automatically once a month? Can he ever go longer in between?

 

On some level we know that this tooth issue may force us to make a decision at some point - but husband (whose hound this really is.... ) will not hear of surgery with that murmer. His attitude is that he doesn't want the decision made for us if he is still vibrant and happy.

 

 

What is he doing that makes you think he is in pain? Our EZ is a horrible eater (always has been to some degree), but when his teeth are beginning to bother him it gets worse. We have bought him a narrow, deep, oval bowl, and that seems to help....

[tbhounds]

Repeat the echocardiogram -- if the echo remains normal I see no reason not to proceed with the dentistry. Leaving rotting teeth in his mouth will contribute to cardiac and renal disease never mind the daily pain and discomfort he will experience.

Of course he should have a complete blood work done too.

[MaryJane]

My last greyhound had a heart murmur and at 10 1/2 years old he underwent a dental cleaning because his teeth were getting bad and the vet was concerned that he was going to end up with a life threatening infection if I didn't. I was very concerned about having him put under but, I wanted to give him the best shot at living a long life as I could. Luckily, my boy didn't have to have any extractions and he came out OK from the surgery. I think the anesthesia was a little tougher than on a younger boy and I noticed that he slept most of the night and he seemed chilled so I covered him up with a blanket. Otherwise, he was fine.

 

He did have to go on antibiotics 1 week (or so) before the dental and he stayed on them for another week.

 

As suggested, do a senior panel bloodwork and the echo and make sure that you get antibiotics for before the surgery.

 

One last note, you may want to check into whether or not you should use amicar (can help prevent bleeding by keeping blood clots intact) after the surgery if he is going to have many extractions. My Lucy went in last week for an emergency tooth extraction and I was worried about bleeding because greyhounds just have "funny platelets" in my opinion. She had a nasty infection and her whole muzzle was swollen. She's also a seizure girl so I wanted to make sure I covered all my bases. I mention the amicar because some vets don't stock it and if it is appropriate in your case you would have to start it right after surgery and may have to order it from someplace else. In my case, the vet's online pharmacy was "out of stock".

[Guest Alichou]

Repeat the echocardiogram -- if the echo remains normal I see no reason not to proceed with the dentistry. Leaving rotting teeth in his mouth will contribute to cardiac and renal disease never mind the daily pain and discomfort he will experience.

Of course he should have a complete blood work done too.

 

That's what I was thinking. We are having a senior screening (bloodwork) done on March 2nd. The doctor seemed to think the ultrasound from 2007 wouldn't have changed much but he did suggest I could get another one if I was really worried about the surgery. I will probably get this done again.

 

Do you give them automatically once a month? Can he ever go longer in between?

 

On some level we know that this tooth issue may force us to make a decision at some point - but husband (whose hound this really is.... ) will not hear of surgery with that murmer. His attitude is that he doesn't want the decision made for us if he is still vibrant and happy.

 

 

What is he doing that makes you think he is in pain? Our EZ is a horrible eater (always has been to some degree), but when his teeth are beginning to bother him it gets worse. We have bought him a narrow, deep, oval bowl, and that seems to help....

 

Well it's just obvious by looking at what he has left of a gum line that he's in discomfort. The vet also said he was in discomfort. Other than that he's extremely healthy, still loves his hour long walks a day and has a pretty good appetite. Same thing, just before his infection sets in he doesn't eat very much until the antibiotics start to kill the bacteria infection.

[Guest Alichou]

My last greyhound had a heart murmur and at 10 1/2 years old he underwent a dental cleaning because his teeth were getting bad and the vet was concerned that he was going to end up with a life threatening infection if I didn't. I was very concerned about having him put under but, I wanted to give him the best shot at living a long life as I could. Luckily, my boy didn't have to have any extractions and he came out OK from the surgery. I think the anesthesia was a little tougher than on a younger boy and I noticed that he slept most of the night and he seemed chilled so I covered him up with a blanket. Otherwise, he was fine.

 

He did have to go on antibiotics 1 week (or so) before the dental and he stayed on them for another week.

 

As suggested, do a senior panel bloodwork and the echo and make sure that you get antibiotics for before the surgery.

 

One last note, you may want to check into whether or not you should use amicar (can help prevent bleeding by keeping blood clots intact) after the surgery if he is going to have many extractions. My Lucy went in last week for an emergency tooth extraction and I was worried about bleeding because greyhounds just have "funny platelets" in my opinion. She had a nasty infection and her whole muzzle was swollen. She's also a seizure girl so I wanted to make sure I covered all my bases. I mention the amicar because some vets don't stock it and if it is appropriate in your case you would have to start it right after surgery and may have to order it from someplace else. In my case, the vet's online pharmacy was "out of stock".

 

 

This may be a good idea since all teeth are coming out. I will see if my vet carries it.

[mychip1]

Please keep us informed of how you make out. The repeat echo is probably extremely wise.

 

 

[Guest Alichou]

Hi everyone,

 

So Dante is in surgery as I write this note. He's been in for a little over an hour now and I should be getting a call in the next hour or two to see how he made out.

 

His senior panel bloodwork came back very good and I also took him to Alberta's leading canine cardiologist, Dr. O'Grady to look into the murmur, especially since it's been a few years since his last ultrasound and since he was experiencing a cough for a little over a year. The ultrasound came back very good as well, and his heart is very strong. The cardiologist saw no reason to not go through with the surgery, given the state his teeth were in.

 

We also did a chest xray to get to the bottom of the cough. His xrays show moderate changes similar to that of chronic bronchitis. We are using antibiotics (one month trial) to see if it stops the coughing, maybe moving to an inhaler if that does't work.

 

I will keep everyone updated on how he made out in surgery once I receive word. He is having almost all teeth removed since it's grade 4 periodontal disease.

 

Keep us in your prayers.

 

Ali

[mychip1]

Many good thoughts....

[Guest LittleGreys]

I haven't had a Greyhound with this issue, but I have with my Italian Greyhounds. I have done dentals on some very high risk dogs, and only in our little country vet hospital, good doctors and monitoring equipment, but no specialists. They all did just fine. It was worth it for them not to suffer from rotten painful teeth and the heart and kidney risks that tbhounds mentioned.

Prayers for your boy, I hope all goes well. I'm sure he will feel so much better after getting those teeth taken care of!

[MaryJane]

Hope that all goes OK.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Keep us posted. He will be so much more comfortable...

[Guest Alichou]

So Dante was in surgery for 4 hours and did really good the whole way through. He had all teeth extracted except his 4 front canines which I now have to brush to prevent from deterioration. When I went to pick him up they told me they decided to keep him overnight bc his gums were still bleeding. They are bleeding a lot less then when he came out of surgery but they still want to monitor him overnight. He is also still very groggy. They let me see him so that made me feel better. They don't anticipate any complications and they will call me to pick him up in the morning. 3.5 hours in surgery in total. Poor little guy but it was well worth it to have those nasty teeth taken out. He had some bone loss too and the back teeth we're really rotten. I will keep everyone updated on his progress. Thank you all for the wonderful thoughts. Glad it's finally over.

[tbhounds]

Glad to hear everything went well and SO glad those nasty teeth are no longer in his mouth. He will feel so much better after he recovers from the surgery. I'm going to guess his cough will decrease now too now that the source of infection/bacteria is gone.

[Charlies_Dad]

I'm glad Dante came though the surgery well. Sounds like he has some healing to do!

[MaryJane]

Glad to hear that he came through the surgery OK.

 

Are they using amicar for the bleeding? Greyhounds have "funny platelets" and there can be a concern after a surgery like this that causes excessive bleeding as it helps to keep the clots intact - you might want to have the vet check this out.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Great news- he will be healthier and happier for sure. Dental pain is the pits!

[Guest Alichou]

Glad to hear everything went well and SO glad those nasty teeth are no longer in his mouth. He will feel so much better after he recovers from the surgery. I'm going to guess his cough will decrease now too now that the source of infection/bacteria is gone.

 

His cough may decrease a little but the chest X-ray showed chronic bronchitis. When we did the ultrasound we also did a chest X-ray after to get o the bottom of the cough. Right now the doctor has him on a one month trial of an antibiotic called theophylline. If that doesn't reduce the coughing we may be switching to an inhaler.

[greyhead]

So happy to hear he came through well and his cough is being addressed with the antibiotic. Fingers cross that that will do the trick! Do let us know of his progress.

[Guest Alichou]

Glad to hear that he came through the surgery OK.

 

Are they using amicar for the bleeding? Greyhounds have "funny platelets" and there can be a concern after a surgery like this that causes excessive bleeding as it helps to keep the clots intact - you might want to have the vet check this out.

 

I'm going to mention it to the vet. His mouth is still bleeding a bit but not as much.

[MaryJane]

If his mouth is still bleeding then you definitely want to mention it. You don't want to take the chance that he starts bleeding again.

 

Have them do a consult with OSU with they are unfamiliar with Amicar

[sweetdogs]

Glad to hear everything went well and SO glad those nasty teeth are no longer in his mouth. He will feel so much better after he recovers from the surgery. I'm going to guess his cough will decrease now too now that the source of infection/bacteria is gone.

 

His cough may decrease a little but the chest X-ray showed chronic bronchitis. When we did the ultrasound we also did a chest X-ray after to get o the bottom of the cough. Right now the doctor has him on a one month trial of an antibiotic called theophylline. If that doesn't reduce the coughing we may be switching to an inhaler.

 

I'm so glad Dante did well with his surgery. And kudos to you for all the effort you went through to make it happen.

 

Just wanted to mention that theophylline isn't an antibiotic: wiki linki. I would think chronic bronchitis would have an underlying infectious cause that an antibiotic could address but I don't think this drug would do that.