Osteo Thread

[TwiggysMom]

Hi all, unfortunately we are now members of this club as well. Our 11 year old, Nadia, was diagnosed with osteo two weeks ago today. As soon as I saw the lump on her leg I knew exactly what it was. The lump seemed to appear out of nowhere. She was doing really well on minimal pain meds then over the weekend started limping and had a really rough day yesterday...she didn't take a kong with peanut butter, didn't eat, lots of panting and obviously in pain. I had to wait for a vet call back to see what to do with her meds and spent a lot of time reading this thread and found it so helpful, and I just wanted to thank you. She is on gabapentin, carprophen (rimadyl generic) and tramadol. I was able to advocate for upping the gabapentin based on what I read here. Her night was ok, but still way better than yesterday during the day....but today, holy cow she was a different dog! Still limping but not nearly as bad as yesterday, she ate a little, was excited to take a little walk, excited waiting for her kong. It was such a relief to see her happy and semi-normal self. I know there will be ups and downs along the way, but having only gotten her diagnosis a couple of weeks ago I wasn't prepared for that. We did notice that the tumor looked considerably larger, so maybe that was what was causing her pain? Anyway, like I said before, I just wanted to thank you all for providing your experiences, it has been very helpful!

 

"Welcome" to one of the last clubs you ever wanted to join! I'm sorry to hear about Nadia.

 

Isn't it great to see them respond well to meds, though? You've probably read what everyone here is doing already, but you might want to look into radiation, pamidronate, and/or artemisinin, if you haven't already. Particularly artemisinin - it is herbal, studied clinically by OSU, determined to be safe, and is inexpensive. It is considered to be one of those things that can't hurt, and likely will help. (Holley Pharmaceuticals is one source that is well-regarded).

 

I hope you'll keep checking in with us, and that Nadia continues to be happy and comfy!

 

 

So much other news today, too! I'm definitely relieved to hear that Gabe's x-rays are better than feared, and am anxiously awaiting news of Gia's surgery!

 

Symbra - YAY for no more staples - She's doing great!

 

For Ben and Pinky, hopefully their counts rebound well and everything goes as planned. I’m sure they will; both times Twiggy had to postpone, she had near record highs for WBC/Neut the next week. Her oncologist said that always happens, so fingers crossed!

 

FedX – what can I say? You go, pup!

 

And last, but never, ever even remotely least -- Joe! I’m so glad you’re getting you’re share of cuddles! (Not that that was ever in question!) Jane, you’re description of him and his head-wonking toys made me giggle!

 

Twiggy’s oncologist called me today to let me know that her 6-month lung x-rays are perfectly clear. Her CBC came back all normal, too. She’s having a bit of a hard time adjusting to the metronomic meds (vomiting/diarrhea), and is somewhat worryingly limping on her left rear leg when she runs, but is otherwise very energetic and playful. (I talked to her onco about this today, I’ll keep an eye on it, but if it continues, we’ll x-ray in 2 weeks when she goes back, might do it even if she stops limping just for my peace of mind). She is also super amped for all her meds because it means a cheese& peanut butter rollup – as soon as she hears pills rattling she comes charging into the kitchen bouncing all over the place!

[Yamaha_gurl]

Gia's amp is today!! I feel woefully unprepared.... But I'll keep reading everything I can get my hands on while she's in the hospital!

 

How is Gia doing...the amp was in the morning I'm assuming?

[BauersMom]

Hi all, unfortunately we are now members of this club as well. Our 11 year old, Nadia, was diagnosed with osteo two weeks ago today. As soon as I saw the lump on her leg I knew exactly what it was. The lump seemed to appear out of nowhere. She was doing really well on minimal pain meds then over the weekend started limping and had a really rough day yesterday...she didn't take a kong with peanut butter, didn't eat, lots of panting and obviously in pain. I had to wait for a vet call back to see what to do with her meds and spent a lot of time reading this thread and found it so helpful, and I just wanted to thank you. She is on gabapentin, carprophen (rimadyl generic) and tramadol. I was able to advocate for upping the gabapentin based on what I read here. Her night was ok, but still way better than yesterday during the day....but today, holy cow she was a different dog! Still limping but not nearly as bad as yesterday, she ate a little, was excited to take a little walk, excited waiting for her kong. It was such a relief to see her happy and semi-normal self. I know there will be ups and downs along the way, but having only gotten her diagnosis a couple of weeks ago I wasn't prepared for that. We did notice that the tumor looked considerably larger, so maybe that was what was causing her pain? Anyway, like I said before, I just wanted to thank you all for providing your experiences, it has been very helpful!

 

I'm sorry to hear about Nadia. Glad you got the gabapentin upped, sounds like it helped.

[Zoolady]

I don't think it would be too late. They usually let you choose either carboplatin or doxorubicin and then they'll send it to you. That's what we've done - OSU sent the chemo to my vet and I pay him to administer it. We do bloodwork on the morning that I bring her in and as long as everything is good, she has her chemo while we're there. We had to postpone her last one because her neutrophil count was too low. So we're trying again tomorrow.

 

Was Ben's white count 2000, or his neutrophil count 2000? Our vet pays more attention to the neutrophil count. If it is below 2000 he does not like to treat. Pinky's was 1600 last week, so too low for her regularly scheduled chemo.

 

 

Ben had carboplatin the first time. I will try to email OSU again. It was Ben's white count that was 2000. I'm not sure what neutrophil is. This is so strange for us as our Wonder, who would have been a candidate for amputation, couldn't have it because the bill would have been over $10,000 for everything and not an option. When you amputate, you know you removed the pain and hopefully extend their lives. There is no measuring or statistics that we could find on the area Ben has it. We're going with what is recommended and just wish for clear xrays down the road?

 

I guess I'm just feeling a little sad tonight. Ben was the star there today, having to lean on everyone just to make sure they felt loved. He's getting a reputation already.

 

We're finding even with good insurance, it still takes a bite out of the wallet.

[krissn333]

Cross your fingers for us that Pinky can have her 4th chemo tomorrow We're in the home stretch now, and I have to really start thinking about what we do once we're done with all of her chemo treatments...

[krissn333]

Pinky's neutrophil count was 4400 this morning, so we were able to go ahead with her 4th treatment

[krissn333]

It's just crazy how much the values can vary...2 weeks ago her count was like 3500, day of her chemo appointment it's 1600, then a week later it's 4400. Such a big spectrum!

[giadog]

Gia's amp is today!! I feel woefully unprepared.... But I'll keep reading everything I can get my hands on while she's in the hospital!

 

How is Gia doing...the amp was in the morning I'm assuming?

 

She was actually the second surgery of the day, and it took a bit longer than he was expecting, so I didn't hear from him until about 7 pm last night! Talk about a long day waiting! He said the surgery went very well, it was just removing the non-cancerous lump from her neck that took much longer than he predicted. (He still wanted to remove it just because lymph node lumps can often turn precancerous.) There were no problems with the actual amp, though. I heard from him already this morning and he said she's doing great! There's barely ANY brusing, so he's hopeful she won't be a big bleeder (although we obviously won't know for sure until tomorrow or so), and she's already been up walking around! He said she doesn't seem to be in too much discomfort, but she hasn't eaten yet, so he asked us to bring something she likes when we visit around noon. He said if they can wean her off drip meds today, if she doesn't appear to be bleeding by later tomorrow, we might be able to bring her home tomorrow evening! Which of course makes me both happy AND nervous, but 'happy + saving buttloads of cash' beats out a little bit of nerves anyday! Also, we heard back from OSU that we'll be candidates for the free chemo, so hopefully that can start as soon as she's done healing!

 

In other news, YAY Pinky!!! Glad your counts are up! And good news on no more staples, Symbra!

 

AMberj, from one newbie to another, welcome, but I'm sorry you're here!

[vjgrey]

Glad to hear the Gia is up and moving around and that Pinky is good for treatment!

 

Yesterday was a really stressful day for us. On top of the X-ray/pain worries, I got an awful scare when I picked him up. The receptionist had given me his daily medical records, and I was thumbing through them as she checked us out and scheduled next week's appointment. They included a report from the radiologist who looked at his X-rays. There was a comment at the end that was full of medical jargon and then concluded with something like "I presume this is a new site." When the vet tech came out to bring Gabe to me, I asked her what it meant. She frowned at it and said "Well....he's saying there's a new Osteo site."

 

That was icing on top of an already stressful day, and when she saw I was almost in tears, she offered to go see if our oncologist was available to speak to me. She came back, saying "He definitely wants to speak to you."

 

Which terrified me even more.

 

When he came out, he immediately said "Oh, I'm SO sorry to worry you...It's all just a mistake."

 

Turns out, the radiologist who saw yesterday's x-rays didn't know anything about Gabe's history and only had his second set of X-rays to compare. His second set only included his back leg, since he'd been conclusively diagnosed with Osteo in his front leg less than a week before. When he saw the huge tumor on yesterday's front x-ray, he assumed it must be a new site. The oncologist just dismissed is comments, thinking "Well, of COURSE we know there's an Osteo site on his front leg - there's a big, visible tumor." It didn't occur to him that the report would be printed for me and that I would (naturally) assume "new site," meant...a new site.

 

I burst into tears of relief right there in the waiting room. He was very kind.

Edited February 23, 2012 by vjgrey

[Guest snakes]

Hi all, unfortunately we are now members of this club as well. Our 11 year old, Nadia, was diagnosed with osteo two weeks ago today. As soon as I saw the lump on her leg I knew exactly what it was. She is on gabapentin, carprophen (rimadyl generic) and tramadol. I was able to advocate for upping the gabapentin based on what I read here. We did notice that the tumor looked considerably larger, so maybe that was what was causing her pain?

 

Sorry you have to join our group with Nadia. I am sure from reading through the pages and pages of this thread you learned a lot, just remember the gabapentin does take about 48hrs to go into full effect (some immediate effect), so it is normal for the pain to take a little while to respond. As I am sure you have read, many of us found that spreading out the gabapentin in smaller doses but more frequently helps a lot more than larger doses only once or twice a day. During one of fedX's worst pain times i was giving him 300mg 3x during the day.

I have found that stormy weather or too much exercise tends to increase the inflammation in FedX's leg and he has more pain, so if you noticed a swelling in Nadias leg that could very well have been causing her pain as the pressure on the nerves and muscles increases.

During really long periods of rainy weather i have even had to either up the carprofen dose or give a dose at night in addition to the morning dose.

 

Someone else suggested artemisinin, we use this and notice a difference, we use it with curcumin which is supposed to potentiate its effects but just be warned this can cause loose stools (although fedx has been fine and he has a sensitive GI system).

[Guest amberj002]

Hi all, unfortunately we are now members of this club as well. Our 11 year old, Nadia, was diagnosed with osteo two weeks ago today. As soon as I saw the lump on her leg I knew exactly what it was. She is on gabapentin, carprophen (rimadyl generic) and tramadol. I was able to advocate for upping the gabapentin based on what I read here. We did notice that the tumor looked considerably larger, so maybe that was what was causing her pain?

 

Sorry you have to join our group with Nadia. I am sure from reading through the pages and pages of this thread you learned a lot, just remember the gabapentin does take about 48hrs to go into full effect (some immediate effect), so it is normal for the pain to take a little while to respond. As I am sure you have read, many of us found that spreading out the gabapentin in smaller doses but more frequently helps a lot more than larger doses only once or twice a day. During one of fedX's worst pain times i was giving him 300mg 3x during the day.

I have found that stormy weather or too much exercise tends to increase the inflammation in FedX's leg and he has more pain, so if you noticed a swelling in Nadias leg that could very well have been causing her pain as the pressure on the nerves and muscles increases.

During really long periods of rainy weather i have even had to either up the carprofen dose or give a dose at night in addition to the morning dose.

 

Someone else suggested artemisinin, we use this and notice a difference, we use it with curcumin which is supposed to potentiate its effects but just be warned this can cause loose stools (although fedx has been fine and he has a sensitive GI system).

 

Thanks much for your reply, and yes, she is better today even than yesterday with little to no limping. And good to know about the exercise or stormy weather increasing inflammation....we did have to stop her from playing the day before she was in so much pain, so that very well could have done it.

 

When I spoke to the vet about how bad she was on Tuesday, she did mention artemisinin (I think that was it) as another option for getting her pain under control, so I will talk to her more about that when I give her an update today. Thanks again!

 

Oh, and I am so glad to hear that Gia is doing well!

[giadog]

Question: Does anyone know if you can buy doggie t-shirts made for amps? With only one sleeve-hole? I saw on the bigorange blog there was a link to a company, but when I clicked it, the website was no longer active. I'd LOVE to have one for Gia; it'll make it a whole lot easier on my family at first....

[giadog]

Sorry for two posts in a row, but I just talked to the doctor, and Gia gets to come home today already!! He said she's an A+ for a greyhound--barely any bleeding or bruising! He said she's already hopping up and wagging her tail for the vet crew. I knew my girl was a trooper!

[NeylasMom]

for Gia.

[greysmom]

There are several coat and pajama makers on GT who will custom make items for tripods. Ilene at Houndtime comes to mind, Sue at EFC Pet Stuff will probably too.

 

 

GIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[krissn333]

That is GREAT news about Gia!!!

 

Jen (BigOrangeDog)'s blog I think mentioned where she got the shirts for Apollo...off to look.

 

It was Critter Cozies, but it doesn't look like they're in business anymore

[greysmom]

No, Cara-Lea is on hiatus for now. Too bad because we LOVED her jammies!

[greytdecals]

Pam at Cozy Coats & More made a custom pair of 3 legged pajamas for my tripod, Maggie-Mae! The back leg velcros opened and closed so we don't have to lift her leg. She did a greyt job and Maggie is so cozy and warm in her pjs

 

thread about the pajamas

[krissn333]

Oh yes! I'm sure that Pam can make something awesome...especially with a Velcro front leg so that it's easy to put on and take off!

[giadog]

Thanks! I'll check in to it. Gia's doing ok at home, figuring out her new situation, but she seems restless a lot of the time. Not necessarily agitated, but like she doesn't want to lay down and relax at all... She just keeps wandering from room to room, and I'm not sure what she wants!!

[dmswartzfager]

I'm in the middle of back-reading the other osteo threads, but just in case I don't find what I'm looking for - I'm looking for an artemisinin protocol, and trying to figure out if this is something we should be doing in conjunction with Symbra's chemotherapy? We're going to be using carboplatin; the consult with the doc that will be administering the chemo is on Monday morning.

 

Symbra had retreated to her "safe spots" since she's been home, but within the past day or two, she is starting to spend more time with us in the living room and is otherwise more alert and nosy. Brian reported that when he got home from racquetball earlier today (it had been the first time we've left her home alone since she came home) she grabbed a toy and played a little bit of tug with Brian, so she's starting to return to her old self.

 

She's finished all of her post-amputation medications within the past few days, except the sotolol for the arrhythmia, which she finishes tomorrow.

[krissn333]

They don't recommend artemisinin be used while the pup is going through chemo. After the treatments are over, some metronomic protocols include it, but I'd imagine that depends on whether you're using a protocol that includes an oral chemo drug.

[joejoesmom]

Thanks! I'll check in to it. Gia's doing ok at home, figuring out her new situation, but she seems restless a lot of the time. Not necessarily agitated, but like she doesn't want to lay down and relax at all... She just keeps wandering from room to room, and I'm not sure what she wants!!

 

My Joe also did this. I believe that this is a common side affect of the opiate type painkillers (like tramadol). Don't stop the pain meds. She probably still needs them. If you have any concerns, however, call your vet.

 

Jane

 

They don't recommend artemisinin be used while the pup is going through chemo. After the treatments are over, some metronomic protocols include it, but I'd imagine that depends on whether you're using a protocol that includes an oral chemo drug.

 

[TwiggysMom]

So good to hear that Gia is home and doing so well! As for a t-shirt, When Twiggy came home, I just sewed shut one sleeve of a ladies' short-sleeved t-shirt (amazingly found a bunch for $1 each at Walgreens). Then once it was on, to contour it to her chest shape, I just folded in the excess (like what you do with your pant leg when you stuff it into your boot), and rolled the hem up a few times - they fit really well and stayed in place really well.

 

I can't believe Symbra is playing already - that is amazing Regarding the artemisinin, like Kristin said, I haven't heard of any oncologists who want to use during the iv chemo phase. Some oncologists don't like it all (like Twiggy's first oncologist), Twiggy's current oncologist doesn't really know much about it, but is OK with me using it in addition to her metronomic protocol. The addition of the artemisinin to his recommended metronomic protocol (Palladia, cytoxin (both chemo drugs), and metacem (NSAID)), makes Twiggy's protocol virtually identical to OSU's. There are a lot of vitamin stores that sell artemisinin now, but I wouldn't go with just any brand - most aren't standardized. Two that I'm using are from Holley Pharmaceuticals and NutriScience.

[Guest snakes]

I got all my artemisinin information from the artemisinin yahoo group. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/artemisinin_and_cancer/

 

As others said, it is often not used while a pup is on chemo and DEFINATELY not while they are on radiation.

 

Personally I found the Nutriscience and Swanson brands to be the ones I found most effective, OSU recommends Holley Pharm. but I didn't see as good results with FedX (every pup is different). Remember we are doing palliative care as well.