Inoperable Tumor- Am I Being Cruel?

[Guest LokisMom]

I don't post here much any more but I need the advice of greyhound people. Background- Clark (almost 11 yr old gh) had a tumor removed in April. It was not cancerous but was huge and pressing on his lungs.

 

The tumor is back. He has a lump on his side and the vet and I are pretty sure its up in his chest again as he pants A LOT every time he lays down. He can't have the surgery again. The vet says it was so hard on clark the first time and he doesn't have enough leftover skin to close over it so surgery isn't an option.

 

This leaves us waiting until its pressing too badly on his organs then ...you know...

 

Clark seems happy. He eats, he plays, he runs around. He doesn't seem to be in pain. But the panting every time he lays down concerns me. He's not laboring for breath per se but he pants like he's just run around for 20 minutes. Is it cruel to make him live with the panting since he seems fine in every other respect?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

I wouldn't consider it cruel. It is probably just that the position of laying down presses the tumor in such a way that his lung capacity is decreased, hence the need to pant. If he's not in pain and still enjoying life, I don't see a little panting as a bother. He is able to get comfortable laying down still? Sleeping soundly?

[Guest Swifthounds]

Does he pant no matter what positions he's in?

 

I've faced this twice. The first time with a not quite 8 year old (at the time, my "middle child" hound) with abdominal hemangio that had a slow bleed. The vet said it would probably be a few weeks or more before he worsened, but he was panting all the time in any relaxed position, so I sent him to the bridge that day.

 

More recently, my 13 year old had a walnut sized heart tumor causing him some panting. There was obviously no surgical options, so I let him go with as much dignity as he had left.

 

Four months later, my 14 year old went into acute respiratory distress without warning and I was very glad I was home when it happened (at 2 am).

 

It's a very personal choice. I make my decisions as if length of time was not a factor, since it isn't a factor for the dog.

[Guest LokisMom]

He only pants lying down currently and not as bad when he lays fully on his side. He often lays more on his stomach and the panting is much worse then. He does seem to be able to sleep soundly.

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Swifthounds.

[Guest KennelMom]

We recently went through this with our boy Prajna who had an inoperable tumor on his ribs. He had a hard time laying down and getting comfortable. Pain can be hard to assess in a dog, though panting is often a good indicator. Prajna would often pant in a laying position. If he can't rest comfortably, is that really a good enough quality of life? Even though he was eating, drinking and seemed happy otherwise. We were struggling with the decision, but he ended up having two short seizures in one night and we let him go the next day.

 

It's never easy With an inoperable tumor, I don't think you can really make a decision too early. The battle is already lost, unfortunately. Timing has more to do with sparing pain and maintaining dignity.

Edited November 4, 2011 by KennelMom

[Guest HHHounds]

If he is eating, playing, sleeping like normal it is not time yet. When that changes, his eyes will tell you it is time. We have dealt with other health issues this way and we have always known when it is time. Thoughts and prayers with you all..

[Burpdog]

I agree: if he is eating and playing and running around, it doesn't sound like it is time.

 

I think you'll know when his breating gets bad enough.

 

Sending prayers.

[rascalsmom]

My girl, Rascal, has an inoperable tumor, too. It is hemangiopericytoma, and we did have some of it removed about 2.5 years ago. At the time, we were told it would probably come back (which it has) and at that point a second surgery probably would not be indicated. Fortunately hers is not pressing on any internal organs (at least not yet); it's on the upper part of her front leg. It's very large, and getting larger...but she doesn't seem to mind it, and she is playful, eating pretty good (for her ), and doesn't seem to be in pain.

 

When she is in pain, we will let her go. There is no other option, since we can't remove the tumor.

[racindog]

Enjoy your time together- he'll let you know when to do otherwise.

[Burpdog]

btw - when Shadow had his inoperable lung tumor, we gave him prednisone which really helped his breathing.

[Guest LokisMom]

I made a vet appointment for Monday to see if we can get him some meds that might ease his breathing.

 

I really appreciate all the advice, good thoughts, etc. I know Kennelmom is right to a large extent and the battle is lost. This one is harder for me because he seems so great in every other way. The last grey we pts had osteo and there was no doubt he was in pain and it was time. I find my judgment clouded on this one. I don't want to be selfish. But I also don't want to wait too long and live with regrets. I do hope I will be strong enough to know when it is time.

 

I am going to try to more objectively watch his breathing over the weekend so I can assess better without getting upset over knowing what is coming. I need to be objective somewhat so I can decide what's right for him. Not what's best for me. Thank you all so much.

[Guest greyers]

I made a vet appointment for Monday to see if we can get him some meds that might ease his breathing.

 

I really appreciate all the advice, good thoughts, etc. I know Kennelmom is right to a large extent and the battle is lost. This one is harder for me because he seems so great in every other way. The last grey we pts had osteo and there was no doubt he was in pain and it was time. I find my judgment clouded on this one. I don't want to be selfish. But I also don't want to wait too long and live with regrets. I do hope I will be strong enough to know when it is time.

 

I am going to try to more objectively watch his breathing over the weekend so I can assess better without getting upset over knowing what is coming. I need to be objective somewhat so I can decide what's right for him. Not what's best for me. Thank you all so much.

Hugs to you and hoping you will find peace in whatever decision you must make, whenever you decide to make it. Its always so hard. He was lucky to have you as his forever home and I hope there is comfort in knowing that.

[Mike516]

This can't be an easy time for you or Clark.

My best thoughts go out to you and him that the vet can give him something to ease his breathing and hopefully he'll be ok for a good while longer.

[Guest PhillyPups]

I have lost that battle too many times. I would rather let them go a day too soon (as with TigerPower) than a day too late (which happened with SugarBear). I base my decisions on my individual hounds, and on my knowing them. I believe I have let them all leave with dignity and grace, and exchange their physical pain for the pain I carry forever in my heart. I have been blessed that with each and every one they have gone hearing my voice telling them how special and loved they are. Not easy, but then, it is never an easy decision, but it definitely is a very personal one. and to you.

[Yamaha_gurl]

exchange their physical pain for the pain I carry forever in my heart.

 

Oye...that one gave me tears, that is very beautiful

[juliemac]

I'm so sorry that you have to make such a tough decision.

 

You might ask your vet about what to expect as the tumor gets bigger. Unfortunately, sometimes decisions have to be made before 'pain' becomes a symptom.

[Guest iconsmum]

exchange their physical pain for the pain I carry forever in my heart.

 

Oye...that one gave me tears, that is very beautiful

 

 

 

 

me too

[BatterseaBrindl]

We have lost two wonderful dogs since July and both of them let me know that it was time.

 

I'm with Pat on this...

Better a day too early than a minute too late.

 

Your boy will tell you...just make sure you're listening.

 

You can't give them a better goodbye gift than to ease them from suffering.

Just hold them tight, with your voice in their ear, as they head to the Bridge.

[Guest madredhare]

When my Dixie was diagnosed with osteo, I told my vet to please let me know when they thought it was time. I was so afraid I would be selfish and try to prolong things. My girl let me know when it was time though.

[GeorgeofNE]

My parents had an English Setter who had a large mass in his chest. Had I been with my mother when the vet gave her the prognosis, I would have tried to talk her into letting him go. But she couldn't do it. He was really my father's dog, and Dad has Alzheimer's. She felt he needed a chance to say goodbye, which I disagreed with. Dad is so far beyond understanding those things...

 

Anyway, the dog was given Prednisone and something to help his appetite. By the time I saw him, he was a rack of bones. I actually cried. My family has NEVER kept a dog alive when it was time to let go before. The day after I saw him, he cried all night long, could barely breath, etc., so she took him in and gave him his relief.

 

It IS a personal decision, but you can no doubt expect it to get worse for you hound. I agree, better too soon than too late, but I also agree that you'll know when it's time.

 

Mom has suffered so much in the past few years, and it was their second dog to die last winter. She knew it was the last pet she'd ever have, and I think that's why she delayed in doing what was right for him.

[Charlies_Dad]

This is a very personal decision but to me if he is still happy, eating, etc. he is most likely fine. I would do as you are doing and see whether there is something that may assist with the panting but we are not vets and do not know whether your pup is in pain or just uncomfortable. You state he is no laboring for breath so that's a sign he is not ready. The 'day too early' thing is very hard to judge, very very hard and again a personal decision only you can make. I believe you are already looking out for what's best for Clark by asking the question and asking your vet whether there is anything you can do to help with his panting. While he is here, spoil him and give him some extra loving, he will be happy with that.

[Guest hollyhound2000]

Many years ago I had a sharpei with an large cancerous tumor in her lung. She did not seem in pain and ate fine, but I felt she was panting and kept monitoring her constantly to see when "the day" would come. I finally made the decision, but she didn't go easily, to the extent that her "job" was taking care of me and she kept trying to patrol the vet's office to protect me while we were trying to put her to sleep. It was pretty devastating because I thought I'd taken her to the bridge too soon. But later, a man who was doing work in my house, said she had been putting a front for me. As soon as I wasn't around, she was practically immobile. When I was around, she got up and did her job. I should add that driving home from the vet's office, a storm passed quickly overhead and left behind a double rainbow.

[Guest LokisMom]

Just a quick update - we saw the vet today. He didn't have any meds to try but he wants to try the surgery after all. He thinks he can get it if its growing forward toward the lungs but not if its back. Clark has some loose skin he thinks he could pull together in his chest area. He consulted with a surgeon friend of his and they've decided surgery is possible but if its too bad once they get in, they won't remove it all but will just close him back up. So now I have to decide whether a pretty risky surgery is worth it. I hate this.

[Batmom]

I might suggest a CT scan if you're contemplating surgery. Costly, but that would enable the surgeons to better pinpoint the tumor's location and outlines so they'd have a better idea if surgery is feasible.

 

Sending lots and lots of hugs.