The Reason I Buy Hw Meds From My Vet

[Guest sheila]

Many times when I have read topics about the cheaper places to buy meds on-line I have posted that I prefer to buy important meds from my vet. My reasoning has been because that is the only way my vet (and the manufacturer) will guarantee the product.

A dear friends dog is living proof of why the above is something to consider.

She adopted this dog as a puppy over a yr ago and has been religious about regular vet care and all preventative meds. However, in order to save money she has been buying HW preventative on-line from a place I won't name publicly. She learned today that her dog is HW positive and will begin undergoing treatment for this. What's even worse is the medication used to treat this is in very short supply apparently so the soonest her dog can begin receiving the treatments is Oct 31. From there the dog will need to spend 2-3 days at the vets and then another 2 mo of crate rest and that is going to be hell on this very active puppy.

All of this may have been avoided if she had paid the extra few $$ a month and bought the meds from her vet. If she had and the dog came up HW positive, all the treatment costs would be covered by the manufacturer. As it stands now, all the costs are coming directly out of her pocket.

It's something to consider when one goes looking for the cheap stuff.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Maybe, but maybe not. The usual culprit where HW meds are administered is either human error or the dog having had HW, but not long enough to test positive. I always test every six months with a new adoptee. After two negatives in a row I got to once annually. No matter where you buy the meds, the two reasons above are how the manufacturers are arguing their way out of reimbursing customers whose dog's test positive.

 

That said, Ivermectin injectable given orally is cheaper than anything bought online and perfectly effective.

[Houndtime]

I buy Interceptor from Fosters and Smith. All their meds are FDA and EPA approved products. The same as your vet sells. There are other volume discounters, who do not sell inferior products, again the same as your vet.

 

Now, if you have three dogs, like we do, and fill one prescription at a time; for example I fill Fuzzy's interceptor package of 6 and share it with my two other dogs for two months and one of them gets heartworm (not Fuzzy), we are not covered. They want you to fill a prescription for each dog. I just learned this last month.

 

It is one the ways the manufacturer can reneg on their promise of protection for your pet.

[Guest KsFrets]

However, in order to save money she has been buying HW preventative on-line from a place I won't name publicly

 

In order for this information to be helpful, it would help to name the place, name the manufacturer, the dose, the dog breed/size, and any compliance/deviation to the instructions, and every other detail you know etc.

 

It's hard to say "don't buy a car from a place I won't name because it might be a lemon" and expect it to help me.

 

As for heart worm medicine, we also use Ivermechtin (given orally). We get it from Tractor Supply.

[kudzu]

The reason for failure of HW protection is very uncertain. However, it is true that if you buy & administer HW meds prescribed by & purchased from your vet most manufacturers will pay for heartworm treatment should the dog test positive. (Though there is fine print on the manufacturer's guaranty.)

[Brooker914]

I took the main point of this to be the fact that the expense for the treatment is coming from the owner's pocket, whereas if she had bought the preventative from a veterinarian, the company would be paying for it. Heartworm treatment usually costs over $1000. If you buy Heartgard (for example) from your veterinarian, and can show you purchased year round monthly preventative, Merial pays for the entire treatment. If you bought Heartgard from an online store such as Petmeds, even if you can show you purchased year round monthly preventative, Merial will not pay for treatment. It doesn't matter if the product was the exact same thing, it has to be bought from a veterinary clinic.

 

Edited to add: You do also have to have heartworm tests done at your vet yearly in order for the company to pay.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Brooker914

[Guest Swifthounds]

That was the point, and I don't think any of us missed it (I didn't). The only problem is, that the above claim about the company paying for the treatment is not correct. As Irene illustrated, there are many ways the company will use as reasons not to pay - especially now that incidences of HW positives in dogs on treatment is up and the treatments are more expensive - and there are plenty of others, including that the above dog came from a "rescue/unlnown history" and didnt have two negative tests six months apart. Ten years ago they paid most claims if you did everything right and spent the extra money, but that's no longer the case.

[Brooker914]

In the last year I have had a client that did everything right, and purchased the product from the clinic I work at. Her dog came up positive on this year's test. The company paid for everything. (We have the accounting records to prove it!)T here are situations that come up where the company can "get out" of paying for treatment, and I am not an endorser of any company in particular (I agree that some of these situations the company still should have paid.) I think everyone can buy their preventative wherever they want, I'd much rather all dogs be on preventative purchased anywhere vs. not being on any because it was too expensive for the client to buy. I just think all dog owners should be as informed as possible and make their decision from there.

[Guest KsFrets]

It is human nature to think "That can't happen to me", and there are also many greyhound owners, (myself included) who refuse to pay the costs of HW preventative from the vet's office when there are other, much more cost effective alternatives. (we do get checked at the yearly vet visits, and our vet supports Ivermechtin use). It's probably also a good bet that there are GT members who use the product and the online distributer that Shiela's friend does. If these were named, it would at least cause some people to take notice and be warned. In fact that's why I opened the thread to begin with, for the education of what not to buy from who. Without that, people will just keep doing what they are doing.

 

There was a piece on CNBC recently about discount online drug distributers. I don't know if pet supplies would be included, but I would think so. They talked about stolen, factory condemned, improperly manufactured/packaged, outdated products being warehoused in extreme heat/cold conditions, and then being sold on-line for extremely cheap prices. The bottom line was that if it was cheaper than you could get it from Wal-Mart/Atwoods/Cosco/Tractor Supply etc... it was about 100% sure that it was compromised product.

Edited October 16, 2011 by KsFrets

[Guest Swifthounds]

I would be very careful about naming a company on a public forum and laying blame at their feet without proof. A liable suit benefits no one.

[Guest KsFrets]

There's a difference between stating facts (I got worm-b-gone from fido.com, followed the direction and my dog is worm positive) and laying blame (worm-b-gone sucks and is the reason my dog has worms). I haven't looked, but I would love to find the piece I saw on TV, and hope they run it again. They named many brand names and companies, and showed pallets and pallets of products that were seized because of being acquired and sold ilegally at the discount on-line outlets. The companies were not at fault. What the report was concentrating on was how condemned product, outdated product, and stolen product was being fenced through on-line outlets, some who didn't even know they were selling bad stuff. One of the things that really sticks in my mind, was how the products would spend long periods of time in in-climate warehouses, before being sold at big discounts. We all know that drugs can go bad under these conditions. Which brings me around to the reason I responded to this thread. If a dog is receiving an on-line HW product that didn't work, that should raise a red flag, and I for one would like the facts, so that I (and everyone else here who reads this) can avoid getting that product, from that distributer.

Edited October 16, 2011 by KsFrets

[JJNg]

The only problem is, that the above claim about the company paying for the treatment is not correct. .... Ten years ago they paid most claims if you did everything right and spent the extra money, but that's no longer the case.

All of the companies have a written policy with all the criteria that must be met and how/what they will pay for in the event the dog comes up positive on a test. This applies to both intestinal parasites as well as heartworms, but obviously, it's the HW treatment that is the biggest concern due to cost and consequences. These requirements are not a secret, and they're not arbitrary. If the criteria are met, I haven't had any problems with companies trying to get out of paying for treatment. With Merial (the company I'm most familiar with), they even have staged criteria, where if certain requirements aren't met (such as the 2 negative HW tests 6 months apart), they will still pay a portion of the treatment.

 

In the case of an owner with multiple dogs of the same size buying prevention under one dog's name - as long as the doses purchased add up to the total number of dogs they have, I haven't found this to be a problem. To try to make sure this is as clear as possible and avoid any potential problems, our clinic also makes a note in the record to indicate that the box purchased is being shared with the other dog(s).

Edited October 16, 2011 by jjng

[seeh2o]

Before you blame your friend for being cheap, the heartworm preventative medication your friend bought may well have been the real McCoy. The Whole Dog Journal had a big article in March of this year, "Are Heartworms Developing Resistance to Preventatives? More dogs on year-round preventative are testing positive for heartworms."

 

An excerpt from the article:

"In August 2010, representatives of the American Heartworm Society (AHS), the Companion Animal Parasite Council (CAPC), and experts in the field of nematode resistance met in Atlanta. Their goal was to discuss the possibility of heartworms becoming resistant to “macrocyclic lactones,” the scientific name for the heartworm preventatives we know as Heartgard (ivermectin), Interceptor (milbemycin oxime), Revolution (selamectin), and ProHeart (moxidectin)."

 

Because of this resistance, it wouldn't matter if you bought it straight from the assembly line, let alone the vet's office. Given this resistance, it could happen to anyone, doesn't matter where the medication is purchased. There was a follow up article recently, with a scientist who had been with the company blowing the whistle on the research that the company wasn't sharing with the consumers.

Edited October 16, 2011 by seeh2o

[snowjay]

I would be very careful about naming a company on a public forum and laying blame at their feet without proof. A liable suit benefits no one.

 

 

I don't think anyone is going to blame said company, but if others have bought the same thing from said company then we may re-evaluate/re-purchase from somewhere else.

[Guest sheila]

 

 

In order for this information to be helpful, it would help to name the place, name the manufacturer, the dose, the dog breed/size, and any compliance/deviation to the instructions, and every other detail you know etc.

 

It's hard to say "don't buy a car from a place I won't name because it might be a lemon" and expect it to help me.

 

As for heart worm medicine, we also use Ivermechtin (given orally). We get it from Tractor Supply.

 

Dean, there is a PM feature that you or anyone else can use if they would like to know details of the above. I don't see the relevance to actually posting the name of the company anyway. It really doesn't make any difference to my original post.. The point I was hoping to make is that folks should buy meds from a reputable and trusted source. In my case that is my vet.

 

 

Before you blame your friend for being cheap, the heartworm preventative medication your friend bought may well have been the real McCoy. The Whole Dog Journal had a big article in March of this year, "Are Heartworms Developing Resistance to Preventatives? More dogs on year-round preventative are testing positive for heartworms."

 

An excerpt from the article:

"In August 2010, representatives of the American Heartworm Society (AHS), the Companion Animal Parasite Council (CAPC), and experts in the field of nematode resistance met in Atlanta. Their goal was to discuss the possibility of heartworms becoming resistant to “macrocyclic lactones,” the scientific name for the heartworm preventatives we know as Heartgard (ivermectin), Interceptor (milbemycin oxime), Revolution (selamectin), and ProHeart (moxidectin)."

 

Because of this resistance, it wouldn't matter if you bought it straight from the assembly line, let alone the vet's office. Given this resistance, it could happen to anyone, doesn't matter where the medication is purchased. There was a follow up article recently, with a scientist who had been with the company blowing the whistle on the research that the company wasn't sharing with the consumers.

 

Thank you for that link, I will send it on to my friend. I'm not blaming my friend at all, she is blaming herself and is very down on herself about this situation.

[Batmom]

From the same sources already posted, so far most "resistance" is thought to be noncompliant dosing on the part of the users -- isn't a lot of evidence at this point for truly resistant organisms.

[seeh2o]

 

 

In order for this information to be helpful, it would help to name the place, name the manufacturer, the dose, the dog breed/size, and any compliance/deviation to the instructions, and every other detail you know etc.

 

It's hard to say "don't buy a car from a place I won't name because it might be a lemon" and expect it to help me.

 

As for heart worm medicine, we also use Ivermechtin (given orally). We get it from Tractor Supply.

 

Dean, there is a PM feature that you or anyone else can use if they would like to know details of the above. I don't see the relevance to actually posting the name of the company anyway. It really doesn't make any difference to my original post.. The point I was hoping to make is that folks should buy meds from a reputable and trusted source. In my case that is my vet.

 

 

Before you blame your friend for being cheap, the heartworm preventative medication your friend bought may well have been the real McCoy. The Whole Dog Journal had a big article in March of this year, "Are Heartworms Developing Resistance to Preventatives? More dogs on year-round preventative are testing positive for heartworms."

 

An excerpt from the article:

"In August 2010, representatives of the American Heartworm Society (AHS), the Companion Animal Parasite Council (CAPC), and experts in the field of nematode resistance met in Atlanta. Their goal was to discuss the possibility of heartworms becoming resistant to “macrocyclic lactones,” the scientific name for the heartworm preventatives we know as Heartgard (ivermectin), Interceptor (milbemycin oxime), Revolution (selamectin), and ProHeart (moxidectin)."

 

Because of this resistance, it wouldn't matter if you bought it straight from the assembly line, let alone the vet's office. Given this resistance, it could happen to anyone, doesn't matter where the medication is purchased. There was a follow up article recently, with a scientist who had been with the company blowing the whistle on the research that the company wasn't sharing with the consumers.

 

Thank you for that link, I will send it on to my friend. I'm not blaming my friend at all, she is blaming herself and is very down on herself about this situation.

I'm sorry it happened, it must be really frightening and scary all at the same time - especially with the lack of treatment medication out there. If you Google "heartworm resistance" there's a lot of information out there...none of it comforting at all, but at least maybe she'll realize that she may not have done anything wrong at all. There was one article that talked about the shortage of treatment medication and discussed using doxy to treat. Not optimal, I'm sure, but better than nothing.

[Guest Swifthounds]

From the same sources already posted, so far most "resistance" is thought to be noncompliant dosing on the part of the users -- isn't a lot of evidence at this point for truly resistant organisms.

 

 

Not that parasites can't become resistant, but if they were going to become resistant to something as widely used as, say, ivermectin, I can't imagine it wouldn't have happened long, long ago.

[Batmom]

By itself, doxycycline doesn't treat heartworm infections. It has been used as an adjunct in some therapies.

 

AFAIK, there is no current shortage of any drugs related to heartworm therapy. I believe that information was in regard to Heartgard tablets, which aren't used in heartworm therapy. There was a temporary, brief shortage of those a couple years ago. And, as someone else pointed out, a current shortage of Immiticide, used to treat active heartworm infections.

 

Most of what you find by googling is "scare tactics" articles with little or no factual basis.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Batmom

[seeh2o]

From the same sources already posted, so far most "resistance" is thought to be noncompliant dosing on the part of the users -- isn't a lot of evidence at this point for truly resistant organisms.

Exerpts from WDJ:

"Dr. Everett Mobley, a veterinarian who practices in Missouri, wrote about this issue in his “Your Pet’s Best Friend” blog in May 2009. He says that he first began noticing an increase in the number of dogs in his clinic who tested positive for heartworms despite being on year-round heartworm preventatives in 2006. He learned that other veterinarians were reporting similar experiences, and that “These reports come from the Mississippi valley, starting about 100 miles south of St. Louis, and getting worse as one goes south.”

 

Experts dismissed these reports for a long time as being due to “client noncompliance,” that is, owners failing to give the preventatives to their dogs 12 months a year. It was not until April 2009 that they began to say, “We know that something has changed, but we don’t know what it is. There is a problem, but the underlying cause has not been determined.”

 

The issue was a primary topic of discussion at the American Heartworm Society’s 2010 Triennial Symposium held in April. A landmark initial study was presented that evaluated heartworm microfilariae in different regions of the Mississippi Delta. The study revealed differences in sensitivity of the samples to macrycyclic lactones. Separate experiments revealed genetic variability of heartworms in different geographic locations, which could potentially be associated with varying responses to the drugs."

 

Further:

In August 2010, representatives of the American Heartworm Society (AHS), the Companion Animal Parasite Council (CAPC), and experts in the field of nematode resistance met in Atlanta for a “heartworm roundtable.” A joint statement released afterward announced, “This meeting was convened to discuss the implications of reports of lack of efficacy of macrocyclic lactones [preventive medications] against Dirofilaria immitis, the canine heartworm. Participants concluded that while we do not have a comprehensive picture of the scope or severity of the problem, we agree that there is a problem. There is evidence in some heartworm populations for genetic variations that are associated with decreased in vitro susceptibility to the macrocyclic lactones.”

Translation: investigators have verified that one strain of heartworms shows resistance to heartworm preventives in the lab.

 

Further, the statement offered a hint that the resistant strain is not yet present everywhere heartworms are found. “Most credible reports of lack of efficacy (LOE) that are not attributable to compliance failure are geographically limited at this time.” The statement did not identify the region, but investigations have centered on the Mississippi Delta."

[Batmom]

Yep. As I said, suspicions but little actual evidence and so far none of it solid.

[Brooker914]

In response to a previous post- Unfortunately there is actually a shortage of Immiticide, the drug used to treat heartworms. It is completely unavailable right now, but the news it that it should be available in short supply at the end of October. There's currently a waiting list through Merial to order the product for currently infected dogs.

[Batmom]

You're right about that -- Immiticide shortage. Unfortunate .

 

It isn't impossible that there could be some resistant organisms, but so far the other scenarios are much more likely: Owner skipped a dose or was late in a heartworm-heavy area, owner gave the med and dog threw it up, dog is one of a small percentage who don't absorb the medication well, owner gives the med 6 months of the year but should be giving it 12 months .....

Edited October 17, 2011 by Batmom

[seeh2o]

Yep. As I said, suspicions but little actual evidence and so far none of it solid.

The cup is half full, the cup is half empty.

[Batmom]

Not at all. Suspicions and substantiation are quite different.