Thinking About Giving Greyhound Up + Aggression Issues

[Guest rarararadical]

I'm a new dog owner and just adopting my first retired racing greyhound about 2.5 months. Things were definitely difficult the first week with him (going upstairs - we live on the second floor of a house) coping with initial separation anxiety, getting to know his schedule and just generally building his trust. But I was confident it would just be a matter of time and he would turn into the sweet tempered, playful, affectionate dog I was hoping for after reading several books and learning more about them at a couple visits out to the greyhound adoption agency. We chose him in particular because he seemed to be the most outgoing, playful and energetic of all the dogs up for adoption at the time. But, after almost 3 months, he's not very playful, affectionate or developed into the companion I was sure he would.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy having the extra responsibility of living with the dog: I get up every morning between 7-8am and take him for a 20 minute walk, then another walk in the evening before bed, bring him to my office job with me every day, take him to the doggie park or beach usually once a week, have taught him to "sit" and "come" (not so good at the "come" yet) and have a fenced in back yard he can regularly run around free in. So it's not about the responsibility of having or caring for a dog.

 

We've also had 2 incidents of aggression and I keep coming back to the thought that I just don't think this dog is the right one for me. The first incident happened in the 3rd week we had him. He seemed to be starting to come out of his shell, my SO took him for an evening walk and then hung out with him while he roamed around the back yard. They came back upstairs and Gordon (my greyhound) sat down in his doggie bed. My SO sat down next to him on the floor and went in for a hug at eye level, then Gordon without warning, gave him three quick bites on the head. Luckily my SO was wearing a baseball cap or he says it might have broken the skin. I was also in the room watching the whole thing and have never seen him act like this before. We contacted the adoption agency and they said it was a classic case of territorial aggression. They came over a few days later and gave me a rundown on desensitizing him when he's on his "territory". At this time I felt like I wasn't ready to give up just yet, but my SO was fully ready to give the dog back. I convinced my SO to let me take full responsibility for Gordon's training/care from here on out to see if he'd get better.

 

Things started looking up for the next month and I was starting to bond a bit more with him. My SO even started helping out with Gordon again here and there. But then last night, when it came time to go to bed (and Gordon sleeps in his crate), I gave him a friendly and upbeat "ok, lets go" but he ignored me. This happens about 50% of the time so I wan't to surprised. So I went up to him on his doggie bed - he was tending to a small nick on his toe. I gave him a friendly, yet stern "come on, lets go" and touched his shoulder...he growled, showed his teeth and snapped the air a couple times. This scared me so I stood up, took a step back and with a low forceful "go in" told him to get up and go to his crate. He did but after a pause.

 

Is this something (the aggression + the lack of affection) I should continue to work through - or should I turn him back to the adoption agency? I'm leaning more towards the latter at this point. All comments welcome.

[GeorgeofNE]

I cannot believe your adoption group didn't explain to you that you need to respect his space; his bed is his space, and you need to leave him alone when he's on it. He's not used to having to share his bed. Remember, they live in crates at the kennels. It's essentially a one bedroom condo with a dead bolt on the door! He's never had to share.

 

Also, hugging is human thing. Many dogs consider that an act of aggression.

 

Your group should have also told you it can take months and months for a Greyhound's true personality to emerge. It took my boy a year.

 

He may end up being super playful, or he may be one of those Greyhounds who loves nothing more than a long day sleeping on the couch.

 

I may be among the minority here, but I think if after such a short time you're "leaning toward" returning him, it's the best thing for HIM.

 

The longer you have him the harder it is for him to be returned.

 

If you WANT to keep him, there are going to be a lot of people chiming in with suggestions and ideas--people with more Greyhound experience than me.

 

Good luck in your decision making--and please--don't go on his bed with him!

[TheFullHouse]

It's called space aggression. He has always had his own space he's never had to share before. They have their own crate in the racing kennel and no one ever bothers them there. He now see's his bed as his space and doesn't react well when someone enters his space. Some hounds will always be space aggressive but most get past it once they trust you. I would leave him alone when he's on his bed. An easy way to get him up and in his crate is to leash him up, put him in his crate and treat him with a treat for complying. These dogs respond well to positive reinforcement so use it often.

[ivon]

Sounds pretty normal, not that it didn't scare me at first too! We learned quickly to keep a certain distance to the dog bed Spud was on, didn't allow him on our furniture, and over time he desensitized. These days anyone can pet him while he is on his bed, though we make sure he is awake first. He still doesn't like being face to face with humans or other dogs while he is relaxing. 2.5 months is not much time with a dog who was used to living one way, and now is discovering a whole new world, it takes a few months to a year for them to come out of their shell. I get it though, I was about ready to give up on Spud, especially since when I first got him I had a 9 year old son, my son is the one who convinced me that Spud is workable, we would throw rolled up socks at him while he was sleeping, slowly over time inched closer to his dog bed, praised him for being good and tolerant, we don't even remember now when he stopped that behavior, we just know one day one of my sons friends bend over to pet Spud good bye on the way out, and our hearts skipped a beat. He did nothing! Others will probably chime in, but yes, this is very normal behavior for an ex-racer, and it will over time go away.

[Yamaha_gurl]

Where is that story about space...you know, the one that shows how things are so routine during racing, and then the grey comes home and doesn't know what to do?

[Charlies_Dad]

Not to be downer but 2.5mths is not very long for a Grey to change to their new environment. Based on our experience with 2 of our 3 who came from the track to an adoption kennel and then to our home, it took about 12 mths for them to really get comfortable and their characters to show. Charlie used to growl at DW when she would lay down near him on his bed and I kept having to remind her that he was not comfortable with this and that was his space. I never went down on the bed with him and he never growled at me. Now, he is a very gentle natured boy, zero aggression in him whatsoever so a growl from him is a BIG thing. After about 12mths he started taking to DW being with him near his bed but it did take time and now we can lay right up beside him and he loves it. Our other boy Jack was very similar and took about the same time. So what does this tell you? Likely your pups is similar to ours and he is not yet comfortable with you being on/near his bed in any way. Months from now this may likely change as he becomes familiar with his new surroundings and you.

[Guest sheila]

 

Is this something (the aggression + the lack of affection) I should continue to work through - or should I turn him back to the adoption agency? I'm leaning more towards the latter at this point. All comments welcome.

 

Yes. To both questions.

A Greyhound is not your typical dog in that they enjoy being loved on and rough housed with in the ways most people associate dog/human interaction. They typically will need their space and are more reserved in their behaviors than say a Lab. If a rough and tumble cuddle buddy is what you and the SO were hoping for with your first dog I don't think a Greyhound is for you. At least not the first time out. It sounds to me like both of you are not really happy with this hound and it won't be long until the hound is unhappy as well. I think you should return him. JMHO

[MandysMom]

Where is that story about space...you know, the one that shows how things are so routine during racing, and then the grey comes home and doesn't know what to do?

From Kathleen Gilley:

 

Of all breeds of dogs, the ex-racing Greyhound has never had to be responsible for anything in his life. His whole existence has been a dog-centered one. This breed has never been asked to do anything for itself, make any decisions or answer any questions. It has been waited on, paw and tail. The only prohibition in a racing

Greyhound's life is not to get into a fight----------------or eat certain stuff in the turn out pen.

 

Let us review a little. From weaning until you go away for schooling, at probably a year and a half, you eat, grow and run around with your siblings. When you go away to begin your racing career, you get your own "apartment," in a large housing development. No one is allowed in your bed but you, and when you are in there, no one can touch you, without plenty of warning.

 

Someone hears a vehicle drive up, or the kennel door being unlocked. The light switches are flipped on. The loud mouths in residence, and there always are some, begin to bark or howl. You are wide awake by the time the human opens your door to turn you out. A Greyhound has never been touched while he was asleep.

 

You eat when you are fed, usually on a strict schedule. No one asks if you are hungry or what you want to eat. You are never told not to eat any food within your reach. No one ever touches your bowl while you are eating. You are not to be disturbed because it is important you clean your plate.

 

You are not asked if you have to "go outside." You are placed in a turn out pen and it isn't long before you get the idea of what you are supposed to do while you are out there. Unless you really get out of hand, you may chase, rough house and put your feet on everyone and every thing else. The only humans you know are the "waiters" who feed you, and the "restroom attendants" who turn you out to go to the bathroom. Respect people? Surely you jest.

 

No one comes into or goes out of your kennel without your knowledge. You are all seeing; all knowing. There are no surprises, day in and day out. The only thing it is ever hoped you will do is win, place or show, and that you don't have much control over. It is in your blood, it is in your heart, it is in your fate-- or it is not.

 

And when it is not, then suddenly you are expected to be a civilized person in a fur coat. But people don't realize you may not even speak English. Some of you don't even know your names, because you didn't need to. You were not asked or told to do anything as an individual; you were always part of the "condo association?; the sorority or fraternity and everyone did everything together, as a group or pack. The only time you did anything as an individual is when you schooled or raced, and even then, You Were Not Alone.

 

In my "mobile abode," the Greyhounds each have several unique names, but they also have a single common name: it is Everybody. We continue to do things as a group, pack or as we are affectionately known in-house, by Kathleen's Husbandit, "The Thundering Herd."

 

Back to those who have not been permanently homed. Suddenly, he is expected to behave himself in places he's never been taught how to act. He is expected to take responsibility for saying when he needs to go outside, to come when he is called, not to get on some or all of the furniture, and to not eat food off counters and tables. He is dropped in a world that is not his, and totally without warning, at that.

 

Almost everything he does is wrong. Suddenly he is a minority. Now he is just a pet. He is unemployed, in a place where people expect him to know the rules and the schedule, even when there aren't any. (How many times have you heard someone say, "He won't tell me when he has to go out." What kind of schedule is that?) Have you heard the joke about the dog who says, "My name is No-No Bad Dog. What's yours?" To me that is not even funny. All the protective barriers are gone. There is no more warning before something happens. There is no more strength in numbers. He wakes up with a monster human face two inches from his. (With some people's breath, this could scare Godzilla.) Why should he not, believe that this "someone," who has crept up on him, isn't going to eat him for lunch? (I really do have to ask you ladies to consider how you would react if someone you barely knew crawled up on you while you were asleep?) No, I will not ask for any male input.

 

Now he is left alone, for the first time in his life, in a strange place, with no idea of what will happen or how long it will be before someone comes to him again. If he is not crated, he may go though walls, windows or over fences, desperately seeking something familiar, something with which to reconnect his life. If he does get free, he will find the familiarity, within himself: the adrenaline high, the wind in his ears, the blood pulsing and racing though his heart once again--until he crashes into a car.

 

Often, the first contact with his new family is punishment, something he's never had before, something he doesn't understand now, especially in the middle of the rest of the chaos. And worst of all, what are the most common human reactions to misbehavior? We live in a violent society, where the answer to any irritation is a slap, punch, kick, whip, or rub your nose in it. Under these circumstances, sometimes I think any successful adoption is a miracle.

 

He is, in effect, expected to have all the manners of at least a six-year old child. But, how many of you would leave an unfamiliar six-year old human alone and loose in your home for hours at a time and not expect to find who knows what when you got back? Consider that if you did, you could be brought up on charges of child abuse, neglect and endangerment. Yet, people do this to Greyhounds and this is often the reason for so many returns.

 

How many dogs have been returned because they did not know how to tell the adoptor when they had to go out? How many for jumping on people, getting on furniture, counter surfing, separation anxiety, or defensive actions due to being startled or hurt (aka growling or biting)? So, let's understand: Sometimes it is the dog's "fault" he cannot fit in. He is not equipped with the social skills of a six-year old human. But with your love and help, you can make it happen.

[Guest BrianRke]

I had only had Frank for a month and my friend sat on the edge of the couch where Frank was laying. Frank sprang up and bit him, putting a hole through his earlobe. Although I do consider this inappropriate behavior, I completely blame my friend for invading his space.

 

I have had Frank now for about 6 months and he is STARTING to get really affectionate. It takes more time and patience with some dogs but it is very worth it.

 

Good luck to you.

[Guest Flysmom]

What all the others said above. Greyhounds are used to their own space, that is the first things I told my kids when we brought our own and our Foster Greyhounds home 'Leave them alone when they are on their beds'. Even I had to learn the hard way, when I sat down next to Cisco, after I had him for nearly 2 years..., leaned over him and hugged him - I did what I told my kids not to do and he groweled at me. My Cisco! My feelings were hurt and I was scared... Honestly, I learned a lesson - the same one I am preaching to my kids (and they for once listen...).

 

Give Gordon some time to adjust, have SO interact more with him, especially after the incident. Have SO feed Gordon or give treats to get to know eachother and to rebuild some trust.

 

As for the goofy/playing aspect. Cisco played fetch from day one, he loves the Jolly Ball, he came to us after being with us for a few days, for cuddles and kisses. Poncho however, took nearly a year to show us his goofy side, the Greyhound who loves to play and who loves to come up to us for cuddles. Everydog is different.

 

That said - you need to go with your heart. If you are afraid of Gordon or if you resent him do yourself and him a favour and give him back, there is a Greyhound out there for you, you just have not found him/her yet.

[Guest dobiegrey]

Betty had sleep aggression when she first came and we were very careful to take our time with her, she would just jump up and snap if you tried to touch her or step over her when sleeping but now it has been 2 and a half years and she never does that, she sleeps on her bed right next to my side of the bed and if I have to get up in the middle of the night I step right over her and she does nothing, because now she knows us and she knows we will not hurt her or turn on her. She is funny as far as the playfulness goes also, she will play with a stuffy like crazy, but when one of us tries to interact and play with her she stops and just wags her tail, almost as if to say "i can't play with you, you are not a Greyhound"

Greyhounds are very different from any other dog I have ever owned, but for me at my age she is the perfect dog.

[Batmom]

Some hounds will always be space aggressive but most get past it once they trust you. I would leave him alone when he's on his bed. An easy way to get him up and in his crate is to leash him up, put him in his crate and treat him with a treat for complying. These dogs respond well to positive reinforcement so use it often.

 

Yep.

 

I think you have two matters to think about: -1-, Can my family and I work with the notion that the dog's bed is a no-fly zone, at least for the time being? and -2-, In other respects, is he the dog we imagined and one that will fit into our family?

 

If the answer to either is no, then you'd want to contact the group and return the dog. No shame in that -- some dogs suit some households, and some don't. Best luck in your decision making.

[Yamaha_gurl]

Thank you Mandysmom, I love that story/info.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Yamaha_gurl

[duncan41]

Welcome to GT! You certainly have come to the right place! I have had Greyhounds for only 6 years, so I am still learning, but there are so many people with so much more experience on this board who willingly share their knowledge and support. GT is like the encyclopedia of all things Greyhound!

Certainly have to bow to the voices of experience. My first Greyhound was a "return" so I got to skip all the hard work and by the time it came time to adopt again (2 year old litter sisters right off the track), I had heard or read about what others have already shared. Even then, holy cow! What a learning curve! Kathleen Gilley's writings are like a national treasure; to be honored and revered forever more. (Thanks for posting the article, Beverly!) Please read them over and over until you get a clear idea of your unrealistic expectations! Yes, there are some wash-and-wear dogs that just walk in the door and "get it" right away, but I think that scenario probably happens more to experienced adopters due to their automatic and appropriate actions.

 

If you want that floppy eared, silly, ready to fetch a stick anytime/anywhere type of dog, then do Gordon a favor and return him now. If you want to have the pleasure of watching Gordon develop into a dog that you will come to realize you love more than anything else, put yourself in Gordon't place, have a talk with your SO until you BOTH understand what's really going on in Gordon's head and come to an agreement on how to act/react from now on. Regardless of your decision, go with your gut. You may just have the "wrong" Greyhound!

Don't hesitate to chime back in if you have any questions. We want your experience to be positive. Good luck!

[Guest firegypsy]

thanks for posting that again. I'd not seen it. I loved it.

[Guest Gemma]

This is classic space aggression but it's also worth noting that your boy seems to have really poor bite inhibition, which concerns me. Managing and modifying space aggression is absolutely doable and many of us have had greyhounds with this who we have worked with diligently to improve the situation for all involved. That said, you should think long and hard about whether you are comfortable doing this training and having a dog who bites so readily in certain situations.

 

Best of luck! It's an understandably upsetting situation but you do have options.

[HopeForHounds]

Some hounds will always be space aggressive but most get past it once they trust you. I would leave him alone when he's on his bed. An easy way to get him up and in his crate is to leash him up, put him in his crate and treat him with a treat for complying. These dogs respond well to positive reinforcement so use it often.

 

Yep.

 

I think you have two matters to think about: -1-, Can my family and I work with the notion that the dog's bed is a no-fly zone, at least for the time being? and -2-, In other respects, is he the dog we imagined and one that will fit into our family?

 

If the answer to either is no, then you'd want to contact the group and return the dog. No shame in that -- some dogs suit some households, and some don't. Best luck in your decision making.

 

Yep totally agree. Found myself looking for the "like" button, darn facebook.

[Guest rarararadical]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I guess I should have clarified a bit more about his progress in the past month. After a while, during our de-sensitizing sessions, Gordon seemed like he was really beginning to trust me near him while on his bed/crate. He would roll over on to his side and sometime back, even encouraging me to continue petting and massaging him by touching me with his paw when I would stop. I'm even able to pet him/massage his arms while he's lying in his crate with the same sort of paw nudge encouragement from him. That's why this last incident was really off-putting. I thought we were making very good progress.

 

The other even bigger issue for me is his lack of playfulness, excitement, affection, and in general not much of a companion thus far. I understand it takes time, and every dog is different.

[greysmom]

Some hounds will always be space aggressive but most get past it once they trust you. I would leave him alone when he's on his bed. An easy way to get him up and in his crate is to leash him up, put him in his crate and treat him with a treat for complying. These dogs respond well to positive reinforcement so use it often.

 

Yep.

 

I think you have two matters to think about: -1-, Can my family and I work with the notion that the dog's bed is a no-fly zone, at least for the time being? and -2-, In other respects, is he the dog we imagined and one that will fit into our family?

 

If the answer to either is no, then you'd want to contact the group and return the dog. No shame in that -- some dogs suit some households, and some don't. Best luck in your decision making.

 

 

Definitely this.

 

Space aggression is VERY common in greyhounds, for all the reasons stated above. This does not mean they cannot become happy, healthy, loving and affectionate members of your family. It does, however, mean that you and *everyone in your home or who comes to your home* must be willing to work within the limitations of Gordon's tolerances. He will without a doubt change over time. Whether the change is enough for you is something only you can answer for your own individual situation.

 

Our first greyhound was also very space aggressive. This normally calm and loving greyhound drew blood on both my husband and me many times before we wised up and learned NOT to do whatever set her off. Never for one minute did we ever think it was her "fault." She did get better, but was never comfortable having contact when she was laying down. Another of our greyhounds came to us equally as space aggressive as the first. Within a coupel months she was snuggling with us on our bed with never a problem.

 

If you and your SO can't come to an agreement about this, the best thing for Gordon is to return him BEFORE there is a significant biting event. Once a dog has a bite in their history it follows them forever, even after the event is no longer relevant.

 

If you are still interested in greyhounds, there are dogs out there for you. As Batmom said, not every dog is right for every situation, and visa versa.

[Guest rarararadical]

Also, how do find the "right" greyhound for you? I'm sure it wouldn't be kosher to bring one home for a week trial and see how it goes, then in the event you're not feeling it...give them back. Especially since they do take quite a while to open up and feel comfortable. I know some adoption agencies for canines allow potential adopters to do this.

[TheFullHouse]

The thing is most greyhounds do not feel comfortable enough to play in a week. Some take months. They aren't like labs. They take a lot of patience. I've had 12 of them and only one of the 12 actually played with me within the first month and he was only 19 months old. One of mine took over a year. Out of the 12, 5 had space issues. All but two have resolved those issues and I haven't adopted in several years. If you don't think you want to deal with these issues then you may be looking at the wrong breed. If you are willing, then know it takes time and patience.

 

There are always exceptions and you may find the type of hound you're looking for but it may take time.

[Guest buttonwillow]

I recommend that you talk to the adoption agency. Tell them what you have told us. See what they say.

I had some moments when Josie first came home, thinking OMG WHAT HAVE I DONE and WILL THIS WORK OUT and WHAT IF SHE HATES ME!!! but after one month I knew she was here to stay. I selected a greyhound knowing what could happen and what I would need to expect, and I really lucked out with the perfect dog, but I was ready for almost anything (as long as she was cat friendly). I think maybe given your specific expectations and wishes, another dog or another breed might really suit you more. There's nothing wrong with that! You and your dog deserve to be happy.

I'm sure your boy will find a good home if you do decide to try again. Is he cat friendly?

[Guest PiagetsMom]

I had some moments when Josie first came home, thinking OMG WHAT HAVE I DONE and WILL THIS WORK OUT and WHAT IF SHE HATES ME!!! but after one month I knew she was here to stay.

 

This was pretty much my experience, on and off, for about the first 6 months after Piaget came to me straight off the track. She was shy and aloof - not an easy time for her, or for me. She never snapped or tried to bite, but she was very growly, and while I'd spent quite a bit of time around racing greyhounds, I learned a lot as a first time adoptive grey owner. It can't be said enough, respect their space. Any issues we've had with either of the pups have involved mistakes made by us, or others, in this regard.

 

We marked Piaget's 5th Gotcha day last month, and she doesn't even remotely resemble the pup that I brought home 5 years ago. Time, patience and trust are key to most of these adopted greyhounds becoming the pups we all love so much.

 

I also want to say that while Mirage played with toys from day 1 (it took Piaget much longer), neither of my pups really play with me. They play by themselves, and sometimes they play together, and I've learned to just enjoy watching them

Edited August 18, 2011 by PiagetsMom

[Guest rarararadical]

thanks buttonwillow, i needed to hear that. I think i'll talk with the adoption agency and see what they think. Maybe we could work together to find a better fit for me and Gordon.

[jetcitywoman]

So you did work with an adoption agency? Wow, that really makes me sad. Please don't take this as an attack on you, I'm more disappointed with your agency. It sounds like they did nothing to help educate you about retired racers and they told you nothing about what to expect and how to handle your new dog. Everything you mentioned (except perhaps for the poor bite inhibition) are absolutely common in newly retired racers. Basically by not helping to educate you, your adoption group set you up to fail with your new dog. Very, very sad!

 

Well, going forward (as they now say in business) please listen and try to do the suggestions from the folks here. We can compensate for the education you've missed. Also, here is some highly recommended reading:

 

Retired Racing Greyhounds for Dummies (not that you're a dummy, this is a GREAT book)

Adopting the Racing Greyhound by Laura Branigan

The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell

For The Love of a Dog by Patricia McConnell

 

And don't give up on your poor dog! Take the help we offer here and give him a chance. Keep us posted on progress or continued problems so we can help.