Cheryl2 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Actually, Fenwick et al, when they had the big conference about it, concluded only that the meat was one of the things the greys all had in common and beef is a common source of e.coli. There was no conclusive recommendation or statement that it was the cause or that the meat was detrimental to the health of the racing greyhound. I'm sure someone has a copy of the report around, if I had it handy, I'd post it Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundlov Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Again I say - what works for one might not work for the other. We do what we believe is best for our pets, and we all need to respect that. Mary in Houston Everyone has a photographic memory, but not everyone has film. LAND OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mleg2001 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Cheryl2 I think this is want you may be looking for E. Coli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 3-greys-and-a-mutt Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Actually, I have a BARF question. I'm not trying to cause problems, it's just something I've always wondered, so I thought I'd ask. Most BARF feeders serve a poultry-based diet, supplemented with veggies/offal, and with ground hamburger, and other supplements. The veggies/offal makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint, because it's the type of thing that dogs originally got from the gullet of the animals they killed. However, the poultry part really confuses me. Historically, and in the wild, isn't a dog's diet mostly rodents and/or wild hooved animals? It seems like dogs by nature would eat much more squirrel, rabbit, groundhog, moose, deer etc., than chicken, turkey, and cow. So my question is, why don't BARF feeders serve large rodents and hooved animals to their dogs? Is it an availability issue? I know that squirrel, rabbit, venison and muskrat can be found, but they are less available than chicken and turkey, and probably more costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest newbie greyluv Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Well, that's it. I've made up my mind. It was the e.coli article that did it. Initially, I will feed whatever the rescue agency recommends to our new dog and gradually add sardines, vegetables, yogourt and COOKED meats in addition to a high quality kibble. My decision was based on my experience with E. coli O157. Our municipal water supply was contaminated with it two years ago. In a town of 4800 people, 2300 came down with diarrhea, 7 died, 2 dozen came down with Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome and 26 children are still being followed by renal specialists. Some may need kidney transplants. Both my children were ill, DD with haemorrhagic diarrhea (thank God, it seemed to be confined to her bowel). We are currently in a 7 year study to follow individuals for changes in kidney function - the first six months of the study indicated a 400% increase in renal function abnormalities, even in people who had no symptoms of infection with E. coli O157. E. coli O157 reappeared in five children in our town last month and the source was undercooked hamburger. If I am scrupulous about cooking meats and using filtered, treated water for my family, how can I do less for a family pet? I wouldn't wish the symptoms of bloody diarrhea or HUS on humans or beasts - the experience was just awful and there was not a single treatment that could be given apart from intravenous hydration, not antidiarrheal medication, not painkillers, nothing. Please pardon my emotion on this. In all good conscience, I can't tolerate the idea of giving raw meat even if it comes from a grocery store - I'm already paranoid about it regarding my own family. Best regards, crazy canuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phoebesmom Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Cindy, the discussion was asking for opinions of all of us about the BARF diet. I have my own opinion and have read all the data and yes, have a differing opinion than you. That is the beauty of America. My opinions are based on information from several vets and lots of reading- not random warnings. You seem upset but I gave my researched opinions. I stick by my recommendation to check with your vet before changing your pet's diet. That is just good common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundlov Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 (sigh) Mary in Houston Everyone has a photographic memory, but not everyone has film. LAND OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Not to cause further problems with this discussion but I agree with the "sigh". When Shadow developed his food allergy and was very sick, we took him to our vet. She had little to no advise for us and wanted to run 'a million' tests on him despite all the symptoms pointing to food allergies. We let her test for all that we agreed could be a possibility and that was all. She had absolutely no advise for treating a food allergy other than what I had already learned which wasn't a whole lot at that time and to try an allergy formula of commercial dog food (I think it was Hills?). I refused as what she recommended was a brand of dog food that is nowhere near good quality - I would much rather cook his food. I agree, that vets are not trained or knowledgable enough about food allergies in animals although apparently food allergies are becoming more and more common in dogs. I know of at least 4 other dogs who have developed serious food allergies as Shadow has, and their vets have been very little help to them too. Everything I have learned and do for Shadow now has been learned through talking to other people who have gone through the same thing with their dog or that I have read. In Shadows case, because of the allergies, he will likely have to remain on home prepared food for the rest of his life. I am and continue to research for the best possible diet for him. I have heard much good about the BARF diet and many of the people I know who have dogs with food allergies have gone to this type of diet with success. In fact, a friend whos dog was very, very ill with food allergies has done remarkably well on a BARF diet. She is healthier now than she was before the food allergy symptoms appeared. Just my opinion and from my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAndGreytdogz Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Oops. Guess I should make sure I am registered before posting. That was my post about Shadow and food allergies... Joanne The GlassHound Greyt Designs Greyt Auctions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAndGreytdogz Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 My decision was based on my experience with E. coli O157. Our municipal water supply was contaminated with it two years ago. In a town of 4800 people, 2300 came down with diarrhea, 7 died, 2 dozen came down with Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome and 26 children are still being followed by renal specialists. Some may need kidney transplants. Both my children were ill, DD with haemorrhagic diarrhea (thank God, it seemed to be confined to her bowel). We are currently in a 7 year study to follow individuals for changes in kidney function - the first six months of the study indicated a 400% increase in renal function abnormalities, even in people who had no symptoms of infection with E. coli O157. Hi Crazy Canuck - I assume you live in or near Walkerton? I can understand your scare of e-Coli... it's not something easily forgotten. A friend of mine had 'a bout' (for lack of a better word) with e-coli a few years ago from poorly cooked chicken (she partially cooked the chicken then turned it off when company came and continued cooking it over an hour later - then ate it for supper. Bad move.). It wasn't pretty! She was off work for many weeks. I live just outside of Ottawa. I no longer live in the city, and our water comes from a well. We had a reverse osmosis drinking water treatment put into our house a few summers ago. We'll never again drink water from the tap or untreated water. I've heard too many horror stories about city water treatment systems. Paranoid, maybe. But I remember... Glad to hear your kids and yourselves are doing better and hope everyone continues to be well. Joanne The GlassHound Greyt Designs Greyt Auctions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest newbie greyluv Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Hello Joanne! Thanks for your input. We just adopted a pretty little brindle, only 23 months old, today. She's showing a bit of dandruff and is shedding but otherwise she seems normal. I appreciate all the info I received in this thread, especially regarding allergies, since that issue was one I have not considered before. Allergies seem to be a growing problem among humans, too. I would tend to agree with the BARF diet but I will continue to do my homework before I deviate too much from the recommendations of the adoption agency. BTW, they use Pro Plan and their dogs, especially the old ones, looked terrific! You're right - we do live in Walkerton. May 2000 was a reality check for me regarding food and water safety. We filtre tap water to remove chlorine (it smells to high heaven with it) for use in bathing and washing food. We cook with and drink bottled water. I would estimate at least half the residents of Walkerton do the same. You just can't put a price on good health.... Best regards, crazy canuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CindyandThunder Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 So my question is, why don't BARF feeders serve large rodents and hooved animals to their dogs? Is it an availability issue? I know that squirrel, rabbit, venison and muskrat can be found, but they are less available than chicken and turkey, and probably more costly I'm laughing out loud ... A lot of people do feed venison, beef, etc to the dogs as part of BARF. Poultry may not have been the #1 meal on the plate of the canine 10,000 years ago but they likely did hunt and kill birds and wild turkeys. Maybe we're not too far off -base If I could reliably get rabbit, squirrel etc, I'd feed it in a heartbeat. I feed what I can find locally and supplement with as much variety as I can find. Thunder eats chicken, turkey, beef, lamb and fish -- usually the first two but when I can find it, I feed lamb and fish Not perfect but better than the alternative. Cindy Cindy Missing my Thunder... Copper and Cowboy GPA-Wisconsin GPA-Wisconsin E-Bay Benefit Auctions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheila Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 Reminds me of a comedian I saw once doing a bit on cat food. He was poking fun at a brand of food that claimed it was food cats would naturally crave. Like tuna (how could a cat naturally crave something that came from the deep deep sea?) Chicken (maybe but it would have to be a big darn cat) But then there was Beef!! How many housecats do you know that can take down a cow?? If it was truly a food that cats naturally crave....wouldn't it have things like sparrow, mouse, and moth in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CindyandThunder Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 :lol MMMMMMMMM..... Mmmmooooth! If it was truly a food that cats naturally crave....wouldn't it have things like sparrow, mouse, and moth in it? So true though Cindy Missing my Thunder... Copper and Cowboy GPA-Wisconsin GPA-Wisconsin E-Bay Benefit Auctions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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