Osteo Thread

[BauersMom]

Is there anything in particular I should be sure to ask him about? I'm still thinking we'll go with the carboplatin. We'll discuss her lupus and the possible implications that might entail. Anything else I should ask about?

 

Most likely they've cover the big points but just thinking out loud - when do they want her in for bloodwork, any particular side-effects you should be looking for with a lupus dog that may be 'of concern'... and make sure they give you Cerenia to have on hand just in case. We didn't for the second round of chemo and I wish I had.

[Texasgreys]

Might try something as simple as vitamin E caplets too...they helped Pinky a lot.

When I took him in yesterday to get his sutures out, the vet and I agreed to try some prednisone to give him some relief from itching. I've been adding fish oil but that hasn't helped.

 

Check with OSU - he might be eligible for free chemo

At Neyla's Mom's recommendation, I did start a consult with the OSU - I sent path report and x-rays, and they're looking for the slides now if my vet has them to send. We'll see what develops here <fingers crossed>.

 

Clark's foster mom: I am sorry it sounds quite bleak right now and hope it will still turn around.

 

Thanks! I feel optimistic only because Clark is just SO MUCH BETTER without that leg. He weighed 48 lbs. before amputation - now 2 weeks later he weighs 46 lbs. So his appetite is up, he's up and running, and causing a furor here. Now if the pred will help with his itching, he'll have a great quality of life. (I must admit, it's a little funny watching him try to scratch with his stub ...)

[winnie]

It's with incredible sadness that I have to tell you all that Faye Oops will be crossing the bridge today @ 4:30 p.m. No more false alarms. Faye Oops has fought a hard battle these past six weeks. We got her meds adjusted a couple of weeks ago which reinvigorated her. She had a wonderful Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, she has taken a turn for the worse the past 24 hours. I felt this was coming the past couple of days. I think that Faye Oops was trying to so hard to stay for us, but her body just can't handle anymore. I held her the other night and told her it was OK to let go. This morning she let us know today was the day. Our preferred vet is off today, but we got another vet who we both like. It's not ideal, but it's not fair to make Faye Oops wait any longer. I will try to post something in Rememberance in the next day or two if you want to express your condolences then. Thank you for all of your support these past few weeks. Cancer sucks.

[LisaB]

It's with incredible sadness that I have to tell you all that Faye Oops will be crossing the bridge today @ 4:30 p.m. ...

 

And she'll be riding on a big, bright cloud of love and admiration gathered from far & wide. Wishing you peace...

 

(I'm so blessed to not be a "card-carrying" member of this group, but am SO comforted by knowing it's here.)

[krissn333]

Laura We will be thinking of you today.

 

Sutra was much the same way - I think he put on a brave face and gave it everything he had, for me. There just came a point where the osteo was too formidable a foe.

 

Pinky and I just got home from our chemo consult. We have her first treatment scheduled for one week from today. I have just emailed Dr. Marin - we are going with the carboplatin. So, we should have it by then and we'll be ready to roll. Sweet Pinkus just stood there as they drew some blood from her neck today

[Charlies_Dad]

Very very sorry Laura. I know Faye Oops has fought hard and she obviously has a strong spirit. We will be thinking of both of you today.

[vjgrey]

It's with incredible sadness that I have to tell you all that Faye Oops will be crossing the bridge today @ 4:30 p.m. No more false alarms. Faye Oops has fought a hard battle these past six weeks. We got her meds adjusted a couple of weeks ago which reinvigorated her. She had a wonderful Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, she has taken a turn for the worse the past 24 hours. I felt this was coming the past couple of days. I think that Faye Oops was trying to so hard to stay for us, but her body just can't handle anymore. I held her the other night and told her it was OK to let go. This morning she let us know today was the day. Our preferred vet is off today, but we got another vet who we both like. It's not ideal, but it's not fair to make Faye Oops wait any longer. I will try to post something in Rememberance in the next day or two if you want to express your condolences then. Thank you for all of your support these past few weeks. Cancer sucks.

 

Cancer does suck. I'm so sorry you're having to say goodbye to your brave girl. I am glad that you had a good Thanksgiving with her, though. I know those good days are such a gift.

 

Since his radiation treatment just before Thanksgiving, Gabe has been doing really well. He had a CBC yesterday, and everything looked good. He'll have his first full dose of chemo next Wednesday. He flirts with all of the oncology techs, and yesterday, they were calling him "our Gabe."

 

He looked gorgeous in his coat this morning :wub: :

 

[krissn333]

Logically this makes sense, but I wanted to ask if any of you experienced this with your tripods...Pinky has dropped a few pounds since her post-surgery weigh in. I know that part of this is due to the fact that she was bandaged for a while and that she had some swelling, etc., but, she has lost weight even since she's been unbandaged. She weighed 50.2 lbs this morning - she weighed 52 lbs on Monday the 21st of November.

 

It just occurred to me this morning when she was weighed that she is likely expending more energy getting around than she used to, and is thus in need of more food, or maybe specifically more protein? She eats TOTW Pacific Stream (grain-free). Any recommendations on something to give her in addition to this? Should I just increase her TOTW? I have been meaning to cruise over to Kyle's Charlie blog to read about Charlie's food, I'll do that too but thought I'd ask here if any of you noticed this with your pups.

 

I LOVE Gabe's coat? Where did you get it? So glad that he's feeling so great - it is just awesome that his treatments are doing so well for him...remind me, where is his tumor located?

[vjgrey]

The coat is from here:

 

http://halemar.com/Numbered-Winter-Fall-Track-Coat-105.htm

 

I LOVE them. They're nicely lined and really inexpensive. The only negative is that they only come in two sizes, and the medium is a little big on Diamond (63 lbs) and WAY big on Lucy (52 lbs). This is the large on Gabe, who's a fairly big boy at 82 lbs.

 

He has a tumor on his front right leg. He's also been diagnosed with osteo in his back right leg, although there's no visible tumor. I've actually been emailing back and forth today with Lilian in Dr. Couto's office about that today. She said that Gabe's case (osteo in two limbs with clear lungs) is "VERY uncommon" so she wants Dr. Couto to review his X-rays.

[greysmom]

So sorry you're losing Faye......

 

 

OSU's post-chemo metronomic protocol was relatively easy, and much better as far as how Dude did with it. Alternating piroxicam and a compounded low-dose chemo pill daily, and artemisin every day. He handled it very well - much better than regular chemo anyway. It also wasn't that expensive - around $80 for all three per month.

Edited December 2, 2011 by greysmom

[45MPHK9]

{{{Laura and Regan}}}

 

Godspeed, Faye Oops.

[TwiggysMom]

Faye Oops

 

I'm so sorry.

[tbhounds]

Oh no --Faye. I'm sorry. Cancer does suck.........big time.

Big hugs.

[JJNg]

I am still concerned about reports of death shortly following episodes of bloody stool. It will be winter, and I won't be able to see whether she has blood in her stool or not. Maybe you can clarify this for me - I've read that if a dog experiences bloody stool from Palladia, absolutely no more Palladia can be administered, and it may already be too late for the dog.

Where did you read this info? I'm not familiar with these reports and don't think it's true that any bloody stool means the dog can't have any more Palladia. In the drug label, it reports a relatively large percentage of dogs (18%) that had some form of blood in the stool during treatment, but less than 3% were considered severe. Given that dogs can develop transient bloody diarrhea simply from stress, it doesn't make sense that any bloody stool would mean a severe reaction that precludes further use of Palladia.

 

I also think it's important to keep in mind that, other than the actual safety studies performed by the company, most of the dogs on Palladia have fairly high grade mast cell tumors. MCTs themselves secrete histamines which can cause GI ulceration. So if the reports are from dogs with MCT, the more severe GI signs might have been from the cancer, or the combination of the cancer with Palladia.

 

Even if those reports are totally wrong, the package insert did report some deaths that seemed likely to be from the drug. The risks of side effects versus no known chance of improving her quality of life are what I'm mostly struggling with.

There's no question that Palladia is a potent drug with some potentially serious side effects. I think your reasons for using it would not necessarily be to improve quality of life. It would be used to try to delay or prevent the recurrence of cancer or metastasis. Palladia works by targeting several receptors that cancer cells use to proliferate and create blood vessels. Because many cancer cells share these receptors and growth characteristics, the theory is that the drug should work for other cancers besides mast cell tumors. In human medicine, drugs in the same class as Palladia are used to treat a number of other cancers.

 

A drug that is very similar to Palladia is used to treat people with the same type of intestinal cancer that Corey has, so it was an easy decision to put him on it (the human drugs is at least 10X more expensive, so that wasn't an option). There is much less info about it's use for osteosarcoma, so I can definitely understand your reluctance.

 

I don't want to extend her life from 10 months to 14 months (hypothetically) if it means her spending all of that time feeling relatively crappy. Somehow, metronomic protocols seem harsher than iv chemo - with iv chemo she feels off for a day or so and then is back to herself; having low-dose chemo (Palladia or otherwise) constantly going in to her seems like it would be worse.

Side effects from chemo are usually dose-dependent. This is why people who get chemo often (usually?) get severely ill, but most dogs that receive chemo have mild side effects or don't get sick at all. In human medicine, they try to use the 'maximally tolerated dose' (MTD) to improve the chances of a cure or complete remission. In veterinary oncology, chemo doses are usually lower, with the goal of controlling or slowing down the cancer while not making the pet feel too bad. Our local oncologist estimates that roughly half of the dogs she treats with chemo act completely normal and don't have any side effects.

 

Since side effects are dose-dependent, the much lower daily doses used in metronomic chemo are also much less likely to cause side effects. IMO, a dog on a metronomic protocol should not be feeling 'relatively crappy' all of the time. If they do, that's not the right protocol for the dog. This is not to say that side effects can't happen, but the goal is to find a protocol that the dog tolerates without feeling sick.

[BauersMom]

Jennifer - thanks for the info. Today is our last chemo day with the carbo, and we'll be discussing "next steps" so these posts are timely.

 

So very sad to see Faye Oops' name in Remembrance today.

 

I'm also curious to hear what Dr. Couto says about Gabe's case. Does seem very unusual.

[TwiggysMom]

Jennifer, thank you so much for the information. Of course, I can't remember exactly where I read everything. I did print out the full package insert, so some of my impressions are from that, others could be from excerpts of studies done, and still others could be from owners dealing emotionally with reactions to a drug.

 

Unfortunately, I don't print out everything I read, and then I often have a hard time going back to find it. Of course, I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet, either. I do ignore sites that seem to not have well-informed information.

 

Your input makes me more comfortable with leaving it on the table as an option. It will have to be a decision reached in concert with Twiggy's oncologist. We will be doing chest x-rays and possibly ultrasound at her next treatment, so I'll talk to her about continuing steps then.

[BauersMom]

Berkeley is done with chemo!

 

[vjgrey]

Berkeley is done with chemo!

 

 

Well done, Berkeley! Gorgeous face. I love when they go white. :wub:

[krissn333]

Atta boy, Berk!

 

My goodness, he is handsome

[KF_in_Georgia]

Hurray, Berkley!

[krissn333]

How many treatments did Berkeley have?

[BauersMom]

We did 6 of carbo. Because his numbers (wbc and platelets ) plummeted a few times, she lowered his dose - which means the four doses from OSU covered all six treatments.

Edited December 3, 2011 by BauersMom

[greysmom]

As we are way over our limit of 50 pages, I've taken the liberty of beginning Part 4. Please move discussions over to the new thread. If you want to download and save this one you should do it soon, as the mods will close this one and it will go poof.

[Guest bubbagumpshrimp]

Has anyone had experience with bone lysis (destruction) of the spine?

 

We took Barnaby (four year old male) to the vet on Sunday because he'd been limping occasionally. The vet did a very thorough exam and eventually felt a mass on his back/spine. From her prodding, she was able to figure out that it was this spot that is his pain trigger.

 

From there...she took him back for X-rays. His legs looked fine. When she got to the X-ray of the spine though, she mentioned that there was some destruction of one of the vertebra (near where she felt the mass) and sent the X-rays out to their neurology specialist. Additionally...he had a foreign body (a BB) in his back
near where this mass is. We're waiting on the response from their neurology consult.

 

In the meantime...Barnaby's Mom sent the X-rays off to Dr. Couto yesterday afternoon. He was good enough to get right back to us and confirmed the vets diagnosis from this weekend. Bone lysis of the 7th cervical vertebra.

 

We're taking Barnaby in on Wednesday to do a "fine needle aspirate." Has anyone run into something similar with a dog this young? He's just so young to have to be dealing with this kind of pain. We won't know for sure exactly what the mass is until they test it, but we're just trying to mentally prepare for the possible outcomes.

[greysmom]

Oh my gosh!

 

I'm sorry I haven't heard of anythig like this, but I hope you can get it figured out and poor Barnaby can get comfortable again. {{{hugs}}}