Kelly's Not Feeling Good

[Guest Stripeyfan]

As some of you know, Kelly has IBD and eats chicken and rice as dog food seems to make the condition flare up. This last 6-7 weeks, he's been getting a bit picky, not finishing his food sometimes. He had one slightly soft stool incident early on in this picky eating phase but this resolved itself, and as he's prone to these episodes anyway, I didn't think much of it. He also had a couple of mornings when his stomach was growly after he'd eaten, but again, this resolved itself. I thought all this was probably down to the fact that it's been quite warm here, as in himself, he's been fine.

 

Then, last week, he went on hunger strike one morning and had a REALLY growly stomach. I got him to take some slippery elm and eventually, he wanted to eat again. His stool that day was completely normal, and he was playful and bright, so I chalked this up to not quite eating enough giving him excess stomach acid. I started giving him a small meal last thing at night and for the next few days his appetite was greyt.

 

But yesterday, he was so-so about his food again and in the evening, had 2 episodes of very mucusy, soft stool (although not quite full blown big-D). This morning he won't eat – I can't even get his tablets down him – and his stomach's super growly again. Although he has had no vomiting, I'm wondering if this is a tummy bug and whether we need to go to the vet. I'm also wondering about worms, but that's what caused his IBD and he didn't have these symptoms then, and he was wormed recently.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[DocsDoctor]

Poor Kelly - give him a gentle hug from me.

 

It's been warm here as you say and I notice Doc's appetite has decreased a bit. I would wonder about worms, too - again with Doc I have in the past had had growly tum/ lack of appetite/ messy stools as symptoms of worms. How long ago did Kelly have the wormer? Don't forget it just kills what is there at the time and can't prevent reinfection, and that new ones can hatch and grow to maturity PDQ (6 weeks?).

 

With pills I am a ruthless woman I am afraid and poke them into a back corner of Doc's mouth, and then hold his muzzle up and massage his throat until he swallows. (He gets a treat afterwards though!)

 

If Doc had an upset tummy I would let him starve himself for 24 hours or so before considering the vet, however he is a dog with a robust digestion and I don't know whether this is appropriate for Kelly with his IBD. How helpful is your vet - could you ring for advice as to whether you should take him in?

[tbhounds]

I do want to mention that it doesn't sound like your feeding a balnced diet-- are you supplementing?? I mention this as I saw a dog recently that was fed ground meat and rice as a sole diet. Well, that dogs body was so completely starved for calcium it started to draw it from his bones. His jawbone was like rubber. It did not result in a good outcome.

I would give your vet a ring-- perhaphs they can dispense some cerenia for poor Kellys tummy.

Edited to add that I understand the need to homecook but, may I suggest that you contact Dr Remillard at Angell - she will do a phone consult and design a proper diet for Kelly.

Edited July 12, 2011 by tbhounds

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Update: I managed to syringe some slippery elm into his mouth, and about half an hour later he started wanting to eat. Yay! Also, there's been no poop yet this morning, so I'm hoping this means the D is clearing up. The second 'deposit' he made last night did look a lot more normal towards the end, both in colour and consistency – if you know what I mean. We're going to hold off going to the vet for now but keep giving small amounts of food/water and slippery elm and see how he gets on.

 

DocsDoctor - Kelly was due his next wormer in about 4 weeks, and he had his last one more than 6 weeks ago, so after reading your post I have given him the tablet just in case and will probably give another in 21 days. He had a horrible case of worms when we got him (the cause of all the problems he's had ever since), and the vet we had then did say he might be more susceptible to them than most dogs... so perhaps he does have them again. Thank you for the advice!

 

TBHounds - Thank you for the info on Dr Remillard - will she do email consults for dogs in the UK? Yes, Kelly's diet is limited but unfortunately he just can't tolerate anything else – he got so sick after being prescribed a vet diet for IBD dogs last year, he lost 20lbs and ended up on prednisone for 10 months. Even a dab of doggie toothpaste makes him flare up now. Because of this, our current vet has said to keep him on the chicken and rice and give a complete vitamin and mineral supplement (CA37, which includes calcium) to balance it out.

[sabrina]

Sorry, no advice to give you. Kelly i hope you feel better

[tbhounds]

Glad Kelly is feeling better. Dr Remillard was wonderful to work with. I would bet she would work with you via e-mail.

She will evaluate your dogs medical history and design a tailored diet.

[Remolacha]

I am not a vet, but I do have an IBD dog , so I understand a little of what you are going through. As you know, they can have flare-ups of their IBD for no apparent reason As long as the flare-ups aren't too serious and resolve quickly, I don't go to the vet. It sounds like something is making him not want to eat, very possibly the heat, and then when his tummy is empty, the gurgling and loose poop start. As long as you can "fix" him with slippery elm, I wouldn't worry too much. Obviously, if it gets worse or goes on longer, you want to get him in to the vet. I don't know if you've tried Manuka honey, but when Fletcher starts to get gurgly, a teaspoon-ish (I don't measure) fixes him right up!

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Thanks sabrina, tbhounds and Remolacha. Usually I can pinpoint the reason for the flare-up but not this time, unless it is worms, or a result of the dodgy tummy. I'm sure the gurgles are from having an empty tummy, though, as they're always worse if he's left his food the day before. Can excess stomach acid/bile cause loose poop sometimes too?

 

The slippery elm really has worked - it stopped the gurgles within about 10 mins. He's had a few small meals today and still hasn't had to 'go' yet, so fingers crossed that means things have settled down a bit... we'll see when we go for a walk later! And I will give the manuka honey a try.

 

 

ETA: I've noticed that the food he leaves is mostly rice - he seems to eat the chicken just fine! Could part of this be that he is just getting bored of rice?

Edited July 12, 2011 by Stripeyfan

[greyhead]

Oh my, I'm just seeing this. FWIW, Spencer had some issues a few months ago, the same symptoms as Kelly. I noticed that when it was time for his wormer, which is due every four weeks, he got back to normal the day after getting the pill! This happened more than once. Then I noticed that the "flare" seemed to happen at three weeks post-pill. I finally mentioned it to his internist. (He takes Interceptor, btw, and I don't know how that compares with Kelly's.) But she told me I could go ahead and give him the Interceptor every three weeks. These wormers go after so many types of worms, and they can't *all* be on a four-week cycle, if you see what I mean. So maybe you should ask your vet if you can give Kelly a pill sooner than normal when he's acting this way.

 

Sending hugs and scritches to you and handsome Kelly! And Spencer sends his bery best!

[4My2Greys]

Thanks sabrina, tbhounds and Remolacha. Usually I can pinpoint the reason for the flare-up but not this time, unless it is worms, or a result of the dodgy tummy. I'm sure the gurgles are from having an empty tummy, though, as they're always worse if he's left his food the day before. Can excess stomach acid/bile cause loose poop sometimes too?

 

The slippery elm really has worked - it stopped the gurgles within about 10 mins. He's had a few small meals today and still hasn't had to 'go' yet, so fingers crossed that means things have settled down a bit... we'll see when we go for a walk later! And I will give the manuka honey a try.

 

 

ETA: I've noticed that the food he leaves is mostly rice - he seems to eat the chicken just fine! Could part of this be that he is just getting bored of rice?

 

I'm going to have to get some Slippery Elm too to keep on hand for Nadir. I've been reading a lot of good things about it. Glad Kelly's belly is feeling better and he's eating again.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Well he *seems* to be okay at the moment... He gets Drontal Extra Large, so I'm going to worm again in 3 weeks to make sure (it's what the manufacturer recommends if there's a heavy infestation). Usually I worm every 3 months but perhaps, for him, that's not enough. I think I'll have to talk to the vet!

 

4My2Greys - slippery elm is GREYT. Seriously, it works wonders; I just wish it was available to buy in bulk! I've taken it too, for indigestion, and it works just as well as any antacid. And it really helps Kelly when he has the big D.

[mychip1]

Best wishes for Kelly. My Dustin has the issue, as well - and if it escalates, turns into bloody diarreah. A couple times, I have heard growly's lately - and if I am too late into it, he goes off his food, and we head toward the horrible situation. But, what I am finding is if I hear the gurgly tummy early on and can convince him to eat a little - in his case, a piece of whole wheat bread or some of his perscription ID food, it seems to keep it in check (knock on wood). For whatever it's worth, I'm beginning to think his is more like a stomach ulcer in that when he gets too hungry, the acid starts to cause problems. I have begun trying to do meals no more than 8-10 hours apart - which means a third meal. So far; so good - though I do know that any stress could trigger him regardless.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed for you. I am going to get Manuka Honey and slippery elm as well as I have heard that both work wonders.

[4My2Greys]

 

4My2Greys - slippery elm is GREYT. Seriously, it works wonders; I just wish it was available to buy in bulk! I've taken it too, for indigestion, and it works just as well as any antacid. And it really helps Kelly when he has the big D.

 

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/bulkherb/bulkherb.html

 

This place was recommended for buying bulk herbs by Kyle's (Charlies_dad) wife in her blog.

It's where she gets the herbs they use for Charlie and the rest of their dogs.

[Guest zombrie]

No advice, just hoping Kelly feels better soon

[JenniferS]

Our Ducky had IBD and when he was getting really bored with his prescription food, we started feeding him 4 small meals a day as opposed to 2 big meals. It really helped to increase his appetite even though he was getting the same amount of food. I also tried the Maunka honey which they say is good for the gurgleys and might stimulate his appetite. Good lick! I know how incredibly frustrating this disease is!