Low Thyroid - Anyone Else Have Same Problem

[Guest kellybrown]

Trooper had his annual exam a few weeks ago and they did bloodwork since he is now considered a senior - 7 years old. His thyroid level was low, so he has been on a supplement for 4 weeks. We went Wednesday and had new bloodwork done. It is still low, but he did loose 1 pound. Is this a Greyhound thing? Lucy had her bloodwork back in the summer and everything was all normal with her.

Edited July 9, 2011 by kellybrown

[PrairieProf]

What test(s) did he have done? If it was just a T4 (what would be done in a standard blood panel), that's virtually meaningless for greyhounds. Does your vet know that normal greyhound thyroid levels are much lower than for other breeds? Trooper needs a full thyroid panel sent out before any determination can be made that he has low thyroid. I'm sure others will address this issue very soon! See this for more info: http://www.greythealth.com/hypothyroid.html

Edited July 9, 2011 by PrairieProf

[tbhounds]

95% of all gh's will have a low T4. As already mentioned your dog should have a full thyroid panel run if your dog has clinical signs. You need to wean off the medication and wait for 6 weeks before running the full panel.

Edited July 9, 2011 by tbhounds

[seeh2o]

Carl and Claire are both hypothyroid. Outside of being very bald, Carl was displaying no "clinical signs", Claire either. I'm glad both are on meds, Carl's non-"clincal signs" are now controlled and Claire's shyness has lessened.

 

Be forewarned, thyroid testing and treatment are hot-potato subjects here on GT. The MSU folks and the Dr. Dodds folks will both recommend their favorite labs and it usually degenerates from there into disagreements about process and treatment. For full disclosure, I fall into the Dodd's camp. My dogs are treated with Soloxine and I am one happy customer...'nuff said.

Edited July 9, 2011 by seeh2o

[macoduck]

What was the actual number?

 

How does that fit into the greyhound range? See Dr Stack's values here.

 

Editing to add that aI see PraireProf posted the same link. Dr Dodds at Hemopet was very speedy in response to my emailed questions regarding a friend's italian greyhound thyroid results. Turns out he was being given a "normal" dog thyroxine dose rather than the greyhound/sighthound dose which would be half of the normal dose.

Edited July 9, 2011 by macoduck

[Batmom]

You can't compare other labs' numbers to each other, although you can kinda look at Dr. Stack's numbers as percentages of what she gives as the norm, and compare those percentages to your level and your lab's norms. But, as noted, the T4 number is close to meaningless.

 

The best predictive value comes from fT4ed (free T4 by equilibrium dialysis -- the reference method) + TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) + clinical symptoms. MSU (Michigan State University) and I think Antech and Idexx now run fT4ed and TSH. Some other universities may run them as well.

 

The reason you want clinical symptoms is that even fT4ed can be zero and the greyhound may still be normal, as Dr. Couto and others note. The reason for this is that the circulating quantity of hormone is so small that below a certain level, instruments can't measure it. The greyhound's body, however, can and often does make perfectly good use of the unmeasurable amount that's there.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Batmom

[greysmom]

Just my two cents: If your dog has LOST weight when ON thyroid meds, he might now be hyPERthyroid (getting too much). Dude came to us on thyroid meds and we never questioned the necessity for it until I came here to GT and learned stuff!

 

This was "back in the day" when dogs were routinely supplemented for having bald thighs and bellies, without any formal testing. He was hyperactive out of his mind and I could never keep any weight on him. We ended up stopping supplementation cold turkey with no problems. His activity level dropped to more "normal" and he became able to gain weight.

 

As others have said, if there were no other clinical signs of low thyroid, and even if the test came back low, I would still hesitate before supplementing a greyhound.

[Guest Swifthounds]

What Batmom said.

 

And, for the record, thyroid is really only a hot button topic because it seems a simple "fix" for a artery of problems. The T4 is pretty useless alone and even low on the "greyhound" range is to be expected, especially as a hound ages, especially if the hound is male, and consistently if the hound is also intact. Supplementing a low T4 can have all manner of fluffing effects, so it can be easily mistaken for working. It's bit without risks, though.

 

I have used Dr. Dodds for my panels and despite abysmally low T4 numbers in a few, I have not had a panel come back with a recommendation to supplement. I would run a full panel and then repeat to confirm some weeks later if the recommendation after the first panel was supplementation. The results an be very interesting.

[Guest Elaine]

All of the above have very valid comments. IME, a complete panel needs to be done. That panel needs to have free T4 & T3, TSA (thyroid stimulating hormone) and TgAA (thyroglobulin auto antibodies), at a minimum. A T4 reading, by itself, doesn't tell you squat, in reality, as there are too many things that can cause it to change. If your vet did not do a full panel, I strongly recommend one be done. Thyroid affects too many things in the body and too much is as bad, if not worse, than not enough.

 

Elaine @ DM Greyhounds

http://www.dmgreyhounds.net

[Guest greygirls2]

Posting for a friend, please reply with any info to her private email....................

 

"MEDICAL: Hyperthyroidism In Greyhounds

My Sly, 6.5 year old neutered male, used to be a freighttrain in terms of

weight, starting losing weight about 2 years ago, tons of bloodwork,

diagnosed with food absortion problem, on ProZyme twice a day, many fecals

done and precaution meds given, hungry 24/7, eats stool, can't keep on

weight, down from 72 to yesterdays 50 pounds, always been very laid-back,

has fur softer than a bunny, had tons of bloodwork done last week after a

full day at the vets, had a thyroid test (T4) come back today at 12. Normal is

0.5 to 3.6 if my memory serves me correct. My grey-savvy vet has never seen

this in all of his years of being a vet. We have both been researching like

mad, but this is not showing up. His thyroid glands are both inflammed -

hard and lumpy - which is why I brought him in. I thought maybe somebody here might give me some insight to share with him.I got a second diagnosis from another vet who concurred with my other vet.

 

Options so far are Tapazole, radio-iodine, or thyroid surgery. Money is an issue so I doubt that I can afford radio-iodine or surgery.

 

please respond to me privately at paulabrown4480@gmail.com

 

Paula in Monroe, Michigan"

[Guest kellybrown]

What test(s) did he have done? If it was just a T4 (what would be done in a standard blood panel), that's virtually meaningless for greyhounds. Does your vet know that normal greyhound thyroid levels are much lower than for other breeds? Trooper needs a full thyroid panel sent out before any determination can be made that he has low thyroid. I'm sure others will address this issue very soon! See this for more info: http://www.greytheal...ypothyroid.html

 

 

Just talked to my vet. He said Trooper's level before the supplement was less than .5. After the supplement, 4 weeks, it was .89. He knows that Greys can have a low level. He is going to do some more research and I am going to print off what you gave me and give to him. Thanks for the link.

[PrairieProf]

A T4 of less than .5 means nothing in a greyhound. Beth's was .4 as I recall when we tested it and we did the full thyroid panel with endocrinologist interpretation and she was fine, same with lots of other greys here.

Edited July 12, 2011 by PrairieProf

[kudzu]

Years ago, my senior Grey had a T4 of approx .4 while his roommate, a younger girly Grey, had T4 of .6. Grey girl seemed totally normal otherwise. The T4 was just part of that blood panel. The senior though had some symptoms that might have been thyroid related. We ran the full panel & he came up clean. No hypothyroid problem. A couple years later my girly Grey started showing symptoms consistent with hypo-t. Further testing showed nothing wrong except a further decrease in her T4. Full panel sent out & came back suspicious with fT4 at an all time low for her. Started on supplementation. All the symptoms most common of hypo-t improved or completely resolved. Others that were less common of hypo-t stayed the same.

 

She's so much better than a couple years ago. Even my extended family has offered unsolicited comments to that effect. So we continue with supplementation.

[RobinM]

I have 6 hounds 2 are true hypothyroid. I think it's under diagnosed for fear of it being over diagnosed

 

I have 6 hounds. 2 are hypothyroid . I feel it's under diagnosed for fear of being over diagnosed. My Chloe was diagnosed at age 2 and Teddy at age 7. Both responded well with meds.

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

Say what you want but Dr. Couto has literally written the book on greyhounds and in his experience, greyhounds are almost never hypothyroid.

 

Just a T4 or even a T3 is useless on a greyhound so make sure you do a full send-out thyroid panel. Get your results and talk to Dr. Couto and/or the OSU Greyhound Program before putting your dog on any thyroid meds. If your dog isn't really hypothyroid (which I doubt it is) then adding meds can be very bad for your dog's health.

 

I really don't understand why this is a hot-button issue. Everyone on this board is constantly quoting Couto when it comes to every other kind of bloodwork...

[Guest Swifthounds]

I really don't understand why this is a hot-button issue. Everyone on this board is constantly quoting Couto when it comes to every other kind of bloodwork...

 

I certainly don't, and I take issue with some of his unsubstantiated conclusions, but he's on the money re:thyroid issues in greyhounds. Dr. Dodds concurrs with him on that as well.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Swifthounds

[Batmom]

I really don't understand why this is a hot-button issue. Everyone on this board is constantly quoting Couto when it comes to every other kind of bloodwork...

 

I certainly don't, and I take issue with some of his unsubstantiated conclusions, but he's on the money re:thyroid issues in greyhounds. Dr. Dodds concurrs with him on that as well.

 

Dr. Dodds and Dr. Couto are miles apart on thyroid issues.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I really don't understand why this is a hot-button issue. Everyone on this board is constantly quoting Couto when it comes to every other kind of bloodwork...

 

I certainly don't, and I take issue with some of his unsubstantiated conclusions, but he's on the money re:thyroid issues in greyhounds. Dr. Dodds concurrs with him on that as well.

 

Dr. Dodds and Dr. Couto are miles apart on thyroid issues.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you as I thought so too until I got the chance to talk to her at a conference.

[Batmom]

Might want to talk with Dr. Couto as well.

[RobinM]

My vet spoke to Dr. Couto and he agreed. When they spoke it came out that my vets office sees more greyhounds than OSU on a 'pass through' basis.

[tbhounds]

My vet spoke to Dr. Couto and he agreed. When they spoke it came out that my vets office sees more greyhounds than OSU on a 'pass through' basis.

Robin, sorry but, that's a hard pill to swallow. The last time I was there the waiting room was full of hounds and NOT all to be admitted for onco. They were there to donate blood and to see the family practice docs for annual exams, dentals ect. The ortho docs and the neuro doc's always have gh's on their book.l I'm sure your vet is a wonderful, educated vet that is similar with gh's but, to equate your vet to OSU-- sorry-cant buy it. Their gh research studies are unequaled. Have you ever been to OSU?? What data are you basing your statement on?

I am truly happy you have complete confidence in your vets

abilities but, to compare the two-- let's say we are on opposite sides of the fence.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Might want to talk with Dr. Couto as well.

 

If he makes his way out to civilization for a vet conference, I will.

[Batmom]

If he makes his way out to civilization for a vet conference, I will.

 

Hey! Who you calling uncivilized?

 

:lol

 

Well worthwhile to hear him talk. Very intelligent and compassionate man.

[RobinM]

My vet spoke to Dr. Couto and he agreed. When they spoke it came out that my vets office sees more greyhounds than OSU on a 'pass through' basis.

Robin, sorry but, that's a hard pill to swallow. The last time I was there the waiting room was full of hounds and NOT all to be admitted for onco. They were there to donate blood and to see the family practice docs for annual exams, dentals ect. The ortho docs and the neuro doc's always have gh's on their book.l I'm sure your vet is a wonderful, educated vet that is similar with gh's but, to equate your vet to OSU-- sorry-cant buy it. Their gh research studies are unequaled. Have you ever been to OSU?? What data are you basing your statement on?

I am truly happy you have complete confidence in your vets

abilities but, to compare the two-- let's say we are on opposite sides of the fence.

 

oh darn, my vet has been lying to me.

Edited July 16, 2011 by RobinM