Would Love Your Help And Support! (My Limping Greyhound)

[Guest MyCody]

I am so sorry to just be reading this, my heart is aching for you and your pup. I would not hesitate to give both the Rimadyl and Tramadol for pain, that is what I did for our Cody when he had back issues.

 

Prayers for you

[Guest Shermanator]

Jennifer, it is hard to watch. But they do let you know when they are ready. I thought everyone was full of it, but in the end, both my babies told me - I saw it in their eyes. You're his mama, you know what's best for him. I know its stressful, but I did everything I could not to let them feel that stress. I just wanted their last days to be full of spoil.

[Guest Shermanator]

I just wanted to check in. I know how painful it is. Something that helped us, was we created little square stepping stones with their paw prints on them. (We got a stepping stone kit from the craft store.) We decorated them with some pretty glass tiles, and now keep them outside under Patton's tree. Its a wonderful spot for their memory. (It was Patton's tree - we planted it, and it never thrived. Turns out, that was the tree Patton ALWAYS peed on. When he passed, the thing grew like gangbusters, and we still look at that tree, and it gives us a little giggle and a smile.)

At first, we agreed we wouldn't keep their ashes. We didn't want some big urn displayed on the mantel. But as we came faced with the realization we were going to lose them, I wanted to keep their ashes- keep them close to us. We opted for simple black boxes, and they are stored in our enterrainment center in a glass cabinet. You cannot see them, but I know my babies are there.

I also have a box for them, with their tag collars, favorite toys and a little bit of fur. I also kept the condolence cards we received in there. I still cannot look in their box without sobbing, but its comforting to know they are there.

I guess what I am trying to tell you are some of the things I did to help me deal with the loss. Knowing I have these momentos of them, it just comfortd me- there is still some presence of them.

I hope this helps, love and hugs to you and your boy.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Shermanator

[Guest asianpeanut]

Hi Everyone,

 

I feel in absolute quandary and any insight or advice would be tremendously helpful. Baker was improving with the Rimadyl and Tramadol, but now is limping a lot again. So much so that I haven't been able to take him on his beloved walks for the last few days. I thought about getting the Gabapentin or IV Pamidronate but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me because the more he is out of pain and increases his movement the more likely he is to fracture it. It seems dangerous to me for him to have a false sense of what he is capable of doing. I am so concerned about something happening and him fracturing it when I am not at home and won't be home for 3-4 hours.

 

On the other hand what is so terribly difficult about all of this is that in most other ways he seems like his normal self. It is really hard to contemplate putting him down when he seems so "normal". But at the same time it is like he is literally a walking time bomb and it is just a matter of time. It doesn't feel right to be putting him at risk of fracture.

 

Please help! I am as confused as ever!

 

Thank you!

 

Jennifer

 

Hi Kelly,

 

Those are such beautiful ideas and thoughts, thanks for sharing them with me:)

 

Jennifer

 

 

I just wanted to check in. I know how painful it is. Something that helped us, was we created little square stepping stones with their paw prints on them. (We got a stepping stone kit from the craft store.) We decorated them with some pretty glass tiles, and now keep them outside under Patton's tree. Its a wonderful spot for their memory. (It was Patton's tree - we planted it, and it never thrived. Turns out, that was the tree Patton ALWAYS peed on. When he passed, the thing grew like gangbusters, and we still look at that tree, and it gives us a little giggle and a smile.)

At first, we agreed we wouldn't keep their ashes. We didn't want some big urn displayed on the mantel. But as we came faced with the realization we were going to lose them, I wanted to keep their ashes- keep them close to us. We opted for simple black boxes, and they are stored in our enterrainment center in a glass cabinet. You cannot see them, but I know my babies are there.

I also have a box for them, with their tag collars, favorite toys and a little bit of fur. I also kept the condolence cards we received in there. I still cannot look in their box without sobbing, but its comforting to know they are there.

I guess what I am trying to tell you are some of the things I did to help me deal with the loss. Knowing I have these momentos of them, it just comfortd me- there is still some presence of them.

I hope this helps, love and hugs to you and your boy.

[tbhounds]

Start the gabapentin asap-- makes zero sense to have him in pain for a just in case. If his leg is going fracture it will, doesn't matter if he's on 2 or 3 drugs.

[Batmom]

I think you've sort of answered your own questions.

 

I'm sorry you're having to contemplate these things at all.

 

Hugs for you and your beloved pupper.

[RedFawnMom]

I'm very sorry. We are battling osteo with our girl so I know how hard it is. None of the decisions you have to make along the way are easy. I'll be keeping you and your boy in my thoughts.

[Guest asianpeanut]

Start the gabapentin asap-- makes zero sense to have him in pain for a just in case. If his leg is going fracture it will, doesn't matter if he's on 2 or 3 drugs.

 

I think I am going to do that. Even though he doesn't appear in much pain (hasn't been crying very much at all), and is only limping, I am tending to agree with you on that. I think I will do it.

 

Thanks!

 

Jennifer

[JJNg]

With the concern about risk of fracture, I would seriously consider also doing the pamidronate. In addition to pain relief, it can also improve bone density and slow down the destruction of bone, which may help decrease the risk of fracture.

 

I'd definitely start the gabapentin. I can't think of any situation where pain should be used to prevent activity and potential injury. Do what you can to best manage the pain, and take other measures to try to limit his activity (maybe keeping him restricted to a smaller area and no furniture to jump on and off of while you're gone).

 

It can be difficult to assess the level of pain in dogs. I find that most dogs with chronic or progressive pain do not cry. Since the pain is always there, they just deal with it. The limping itself is a sign that the leg hurts.

[NancyB]

I'm so sorry, sending prayers and hugs for you and Baker

[robinw]

I'm sorry. Our hounds are so stoic, it's difficult to tell how much pain they're in.

 

You're in a heartbreakingly difficult situation. You're both in my thoughts.

[NeylasMom]

I'd definitely start the gabapentin. I can't think of any situation where pain should be used to prevent activity and potential injury. Do what you can to best manage the pain, and take other measures to try to limit his activity (maybe keeping him restricted to a smaller area and no furniture to jump on and off of while you're gone).

 

It can be difficult to assess the level of pain in dogs. I find that most dogs with chronic or progressive pain do not cry. Since the pain is always there, they just deal with it. The limping itself is a sign that the leg hurts.

 

If you are already maxed out or nearly maxed out on the other 2 drugs, you do need to prepare yourself for the fact that the Gabapentin may only give you a little bit more time. Each dog is different, but it seems to me that there can be a prolonged period of minimal progression and then toward the end things speed up very quickly. If you see any swelling in the area, that could be an indication as well that things have progressed more (the swelling occurs as the bone basically explodes from the inside as the cancer grows inside the bone). So you may want to make a decision about the pamidronate now, rather than waiting until the Gabapentin is no longer effective.

 

Basically, because this disease is so painful and our greys often don't let us know they're in pain until it's pretty severe, I think it's important to always be thinking one step ahead. It helps to make less emotionally charged decisions as well I guess.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

By the way, my name is Jen as well.

[Jackandgrey]

Each dog is different, but it seems to me that there can be a prolonged period of minimal progression and then toward the end things speed up very quickly.

I agree. And make sure you are using the other two meds truly as needed. By that I mean the the number of times a day, I assume you have the Tramadol at three times a day already? And as high a dose as provides comfort. With pain it is essential to stay ahead of the pain not try to beat it back down once it's there.

It is always so difficult to say but make sure you have your final plan in place.

It is a difficult road to travel I know.

[Guest asianpeanut]

I'd definitely start the gabapentin. I can't think of any situation where pain should be used to prevent activity and potential injury. Do what you can to best manage the pain, and take other measures to try to limit his activity (maybe keeping him restricted to a smaller area and no furniture to jump on and off of while you're gone).

 

It can be difficult to assess the level of pain in dogs. I find that most dogs with chronic or progressive pain do not cry. Since the pain is always there, they just deal with it. The limping itself is a sign that the leg hurts.

 

If you are already maxed out or nearly maxed out on the other 2 drugs, you do need to prepare yourself for the fact that the Gabapentin may only give you a little bit more time. Each dog is different, but it seems to me that there can be a prolonged period of minimal progression and then toward the end things speed up very quickly. If you see any swelling in the area, that could be an indication as well that things have progressed more (the swelling occurs as the bone basically explodes from the inside as the cancer grows inside the bone). So you may want to make a decision about the pamidronate now, rather than waiting until the Gabapentin is no longer effective.

 

Basically, because this disease is so painful and our greys often don't let us know they're in pain until it's pretty severe, I think it's important to always be thinking one step ahead. It helps to make less emotionally charged decisions as well I guess.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

By the way, my name is Jen as well.

 

 

Thanks Jen:)

 

I just picked up the Gabapentin at the pharmacy and will start him on it today and start thinking about the Pamidronate. How many courses of that did you do? How many doses did you give of the Tramadol per day? The bottle says twice per day, but I see that someone else said three. I have not noticed any swelling yet, and the x-ray that was taken a few weeks ago only showed a change in the bone density. Thanks so much again for your advice and support. I don't know what I would have done without this forum. Everyone has been so loving and supportive, an absolute Godsend!

 

Hugs,

 

Jen

 

Each dog is different, but it seems to me that there can be a prolonged period of minimal progression and then toward the end things speed up very quickly.

I agree. And make sure you are using the other two meds truly as needed. By that I mean the the number of times a day, I assume you have the Tramadol at three times a day already? And as high a dose as provides comfort. With pain it is essential to stay ahead of the pain not try to beat it back down once it's there.

It is always so difficult to say but make sure you have your final plan in place.

It is a difficult road to travel I know.

 

Thanks Susan:) I am going to start the Gabapentin today and will keep everyone posted. Did you do the Pamidronate too? Did it help a lot? Yes, you are right, it is very difficult to contemplate the final plan, every time I think about it I start crying and am absolutely dreading it. It makes me sick to my stomach to even think about it. However, I know that it is essential to my comfort level to have it in place and I already have 2 vets I can call on to come to the house when it is time. How does anyone make it through that horrible day?!

 

Thanks again and hugs,

 

Jennifer

[NeylasMom]

It's been a little while so the max dosages for each medication per lb has waned from my memory, but you can call your vet to ask for them - you need to specify max CANCER dosages, which are higher and ask how to incrementally increase them (for instance, you only want to increase one at a time).

 

Both Gabapentin and Tramadol can be given up to 3 times per day, the NSAID can be daily or split over 2 doses per day (this is what we did). Toward the end, Neyla (at 56 lbs) was on 125 mg Tramadol 3x/day, 25 mg Deramaxx 2x/day, and 300 mg Gabapentin 3x/day. I am betting what the bottles say are much lower - many general vets are just not aggressive enough about pain management with osteo imo.

 

We only did one pamidronate treatment because of the kidney issues that popped up, but if they help and bone density still looks good, you can expect to do them every 28 days or so.

[Guest Shermanator]

We let Sherman and Patton go to the bridge a little earlier than some others may have. We were terrified of them fracturing a leg. I didn't want that possibility for either of them, both DH and I wanted them to go peacefully. Both boys gave me tail wagging (but not much) the days we let them go, and both boys walked into the vet under their own power. It was more for us we didn't lose our boys, but we had them maxed out on tramodol, and they were so drugged up, they lost their spark. I wanted my boys to have the dignity and grace of their last moments, not them in pain and distress from a broken leg. I took several days off when the died. (We were barely grieving for Sherman when Patton died from osteo.) I did seek out some counseling, as well- it was helpful for me to cry, grieve and get angry in a safe, nuetral enviorment.

Good luck to you and sweet Baker. I know the place you are at right now- that hard fine line of when to let him go.)

[Jackandgrey]

Jack was on 50 mg of Tramadil TID very quickly an dhe was very comfortable at that for a long time. If he overdid it and seemed unsettled I gave him 100mg for a dose or two. You need to assess your own fellow but I guarantee twice a day is not enough although all vets seem to start with that. So do make sure you call your vet and ask what his very maximum dosage is should you suddenly need it. I did not do Gabapentin or pamidronate. But that was because for most of his 6 months you would hardly know he had the damn disease. When the Meloxicam and Tramadol very suddenly was not enough, I knew it was time to let him go. He was on the very maximum for three days and his last day was comfortable but he didn't want to get up or go out much.

 

How do you get through that day? Wow it is a surreal experience. You do a lot of clock watching, begging time to slow down. You feed him every last wonderful thing he ever wanted. You take pictures and you cuddle a lot. You remind yourself that this was a promise you made to your beloved hound, that he should not suffer one minute longer than he had to no matter how much it hurts you to say goodbye. You memorize his sweet face and then you hold him as he leaves you to be pain free again. Then you come here and cry and we promise to hold you and help you as long as you need us.

[Guest Shermanator]

 

How do you get through that day? Wow it is a surreal experience. You do a lot of clock watching, begging time to slow down. You feed him every last wonderful thing he ever wanted. You take pictures and you cuddle a lot. You remind yourself that this was a promise you made to your beloved hound, that he should not suffer one minute longer than he had to no matter how much it hurts you to say goodbye. You memorize his sweet face and then you hold him as he leaves you to be pain free again. Then you come here and cry and we promise to hold you and help you as long as you need us.

 

For Sherman, we couldn't get to the vet until 1pm. The entire morning I snuggled with Sherman, and we watched TV. I fell asleep at a point, and when I woke up, Sherman was laying on another bed looking at me like 'Geez, Mom, you're smothering me!' That's my boy!

 

We took Patton with us, since we wanted him to know what was happening to his brother (we didn't want to leave him home, and then come home wo Sherman. (Little did we know we would be back with Patton in 6 weeks.) Don't be afraid to let your emotions out. When Sherman died, I competely fell apart. I never lost a pet before, and the overwhelming emotions came out. I could't stop sobbing (loudly), and almost passed out, (I was sobbing so hard, I started to. hyperventilate.) The waiting room was full, and it being a smaller practice, you could hear me sobbing, but I didn't care. When it was time to leave, I didn't want Sherman left alone, (and there was no way I could bear to see his body taken out of the room,) and a vet tech came in, sat with his body, scratching his ears, and talking softly to him. Seeing he wasn't alone, I was able to leave. We went home with Patton, and ate a gallon of ice cream.

 

When we lost Patton, we were able to get a 7:30 am appointment, (before they opened, since I had such a horrible time before.) When Patton died, it was the same as Sherman. (Me losing it, a vet tech staying with him, etc.) We went home again, ate another gallon of ice cream, and sat quietly.

 

For us, immediately adopting again helped us. I wanted to honor Sherman and Pattons' memories by saving 2 more greys who desperately needed a home. We ened up with 2 needy little girls, who were both bounces and had big issues (Travel was a very spookly little girl, no one wanted her bc of that, and Echo had 2 strikes against her- Vally Fever & a very bad case of fear agression.) They have blossomed in our home, and we know that's what our big boys wanted.

[robinw]

My Phoenix was diagnosed with osteo earlier this week. After discussing medication options with the vet, I decided that when it gets to the point that I'm mixing meds and giving large doses, it might be time to say good bye. I'm not convinced that doping him up would provide the quality of life that I want for him, so I'm giving him 25ml of Metacam daily and Tramadol as needed. Having said that, he's not yet at that point, so who knows what I'll think when we get there.

[cacky]

Hey Jen so sorry your going through this with Baker, You've already recieved the best advice from experts in this forum, so I'll add nothing but my prayers and healing lights for your pup.

So so sorry, huge hugs

[Guest asianpeanut]

We let Sherman and Patton go to the bridge a little earlier than some others may have. We were terrified of them fracturing a leg. I didn't want that possibility for either of them, both DH and I wanted them to go peacefully. Both boys gave me tail wagging (but not much) the days we let them go, and both boys walked into the vet under their own power. It was more for us we didn't lose our boys, but we had them maxed out on tramodol, and they were so drugged up, they lost their spark. I wanted my boys to have the dignity and grace of their last moments, not them in pain and distress from a broken leg. I took several days off when the died. (We were barely grieving for Sherman when Patton died from osteo.) I did seek out some counseling, as well- it was helpful for me to cry, grieve and get angry in a safe, nuetral enviorment.

Good luck to you and sweet Baker. I know the place you are at right now- that hard fine line of when to let him go.)

 

 

Thanks for sharing that Kelly. I am so sorry for your loss and that you had to go through that- that is so heartbreaking that you had to lose two of your babies so close together- I don't know how you got through it. I know what you mean about the pain med overload. The last couple days it hasn't felt right to me to be giving all of these medications. I used to be an acupuncturist and herbalist and it never felt right to me. He is on Rimadyl, Tramadol, and I just added the Gabapentin two days ago, which is starting to help. I don't know how far I want to go with it though, I don't want to just keep overloading him with pain pills. I am contemplating the IV Pamidronate, but I don't know. If he is still suffering after all the pain meds and Gabapentin I may just think it is time then. It's just so hard to imagine letting him go. But I don't want to keep him here for me either if he is suffering. Ugh, it's all so difficult!

 

Thanks so much for your kind words and support!

 

Hugs,

 

Jen

 

Jack was on 50 mg of Tramadil TID very quickly an dhe was very comfortable at that for a long time. If he overdid it and seemed unsettled I gave him 100mg for a dose or two. You need to assess your own fellow but I guarantee twice a day is not enough although all vets seem to start with that. So do make sure you call your vet and ask what his very maximum dosage is should you suddenly need it. I did not do Gabapentin or pamidronate. But that was because for most of his 6 months you would hardly know he had the damn disease. When the Meloxicam and Tramadol very suddenly was not enough, I knew it was time to let him go. He was on the very maximum for three days and his last day was comfortable but he didn't want to get up or go out much.

 

How do you get through that day? Wow it is a surreal experience. You do a lot of clock watching, begging time to slow down. You feed him every last wonderful thing he ever wanted. You take pictures and you cuddle a lot. You remind yourself that this was a promise you made to your beloved hound, that he should not suffer one minute longer than he had to no matter how much it hurts you to say goodbye. You memorize his sweet face and then you hold him as he leaves you to be pain free again. Then you come here and cry and we promise to hold you and help you as long as you need us.

 

Susan, that was the sweetest message- thank you, thank you, thank you! Your last sentence was so comforting to me and you and everyone on this forum has given me tremendous strength and comfort. My deepest gratitude and thanks:)

[Guest asianpeanut]

It's been a little while so the max dosages for each medication per lb has waned from my memory, but you can call your vet to ask for them - you need to specify max CANCER dosages, which are higher and ask how to incrementally increase them (for instance, you only want to increase one at a time).

 

Both Gabapentin and Tramadol can be given up to 3 times per day, the NSAID can be daily or split over 2 doses per day (this is what we did). Toward the end, Neyla (at 56 lbs) was on 125 mg Tramadol 3x/day, 25 mg Deramaxx 2x/day, and 300 mg Gabapentin 3x/day. I am betting what the bottles say are much lower - many general vets are just not aggressive enough about pain management with osteo imo.

 

We only did one pamidronate treatment because of the kidney issues that popped up, but if they help and bone density still looks good, you can expect to do them every 28 days or so.

 

Thanks Jen! What's the Deramaxx for? I didn't get any of that...

[Guest asianpeanut]

My Phoenix was diagnosed with osteo earlier this week. After discussing medication options with the vet, I decided that when it gets to the point that I'm mixing meds and giving large doses, it might be time to say good bye. I'm not convinced that doping him up would provide the quality of life that I want for him, so I'm giving him 25ml of Metacam daily and Tramadol as needed. Having said that, he's not yet at that point, so who knows what I'll think when we get there.

 

I'm so sorry to hear about Phoenix! Was he limping? How progressed is it? I totally understand what you are saying about the excess medications, I am starting to feel that way myself and not feeling right about it. The last couple days when I have been giving his medication it just doesn't feel right to me. Are you going to do the radiation or Pamidronate? I am definately not doing the radiation, and probably not the Pamidronate. I think when it gets to that point it might be time to say good bye too. I did start him on the Gabapentin though and he seems better again.

 

It's really such an awful thing to deal with isn't it? I can't think of much else these days. I am absolutely dreading "the day". I can't imagine my baby not around...

 

Hope you are hanging in there. Sending you and Phoenix love and prayers...

 

Jennifer

[greyhead]

Just want to send you a virtual hug, Jennifer. You and your sweet boy are in my thoughts and prayers.

[JJNg]

Thanks Jen! What's the Deramaxx for? I didn't get any of that...

Deramaxx is another NSAID pain medication, like the Rimadyl that Baker is on. You can't use more than one NSAID at a time. I find that they all work pretty similarly, although individual dogs may do better on one than another.