Question For Ppl With Dogs On Tylan/flagyl Etc For Poop Problems

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Background: About a year ago, Kelly was diagnosed with IBD and possible SIBO and was put on pred and an antibiotic, oxytetracycline. This January, we finally got him off the pred, but kept him on a low dose of the AB (1/3 of the normal dose). 2 weeks ago he had a UTI so the vet put him on a different AB to clear that up and then said when he was done with that, try stopping the meds altogether to see if he could manage without them. On Tues (just over 24 hrs after stopping the ABs), his IBD began to flare up. We tried a day of fasting, then small regular meals – I also upped his probiotic dose – and saw some improvement. But this morning he's back to cow pat poop. I have given him an AB because I do NOT want this getting out of control (like it did last year) and will be calling the vet later to let her know.

 

My question: I know many people on here have got/had dogs on ABs such as flagyl or tylan to control diarrhea- has anyone had dogs who've had to stay on them for life, and is this ok?

 

Thanks!

 

ETA: sorry if this sounds a bit abrupt, I am rushing to get ready to take his Stripeyness for his walk before I have to go to work!

Edited March 3, 2011 by Stripeyfan

[KF_in_Georgia]

My vet said it's okay to stay on Tylan as long as necessary. (Unfortunately, it doesn't help Sam, so we've stopped it.) Take a look here.

 

Now compare that to the potential side effects of Flagyl. From this site:

 

Neurological Side Effects

# Some dogs suffer from neurological side effects, such as nystagmus (unintentional eye movement), dilated pupils, ataxia (lack of coordination) head-tilt, tremors, disorientation, stiffness and even seizures. These more alarming symptoms may be seen in dogs who have been prescribed long-term moderate to high-dose therapy for treatment of difficult bacterial infections like SIBO.

One neurologist examining a symptomatic dog informed the dog's owner that he rarely saw a dog with Metronidazole toxicity return to normal and that some had permanent brain damage. Although dogs compensate and learn to live with acquired disabilities, these neurological symptoms can worsen when a dog is sick or stressed.

And later the site says:

Pre-existing Conditions

# Before you give your dog Metronidazole, make sure your veterinarian knows what other drugs your dog has been taking. Your dog's liver function should be tested and monitored, and, if your dog already has liver disease, it should not be prescribed.

There is a possibility that dogs with tick-related diseases may be more susceptible to Metronidazole toxicity, because both can affect liver function.

 

My vet has seen a couple of cases of Metronidazole toxicity in his career. Since Sam has frequently had spells of diarrhea that were treated with flagyl, the vet won't prescribe it any more for him. When his diarrhea can be controlled by an antibiotic, we'll try Tylan again. At present, Sam's diarrhea is sporadic, short-lived, and doesn't respond to an antibiotic.

 

P.S. The Tylan tastes awful. My Sam will eat anything, but even he might have balked if he'd gotten a taste of the stuff. I bought thin-sliced smoked turkey lunch meat, put the powder in the center of a slice, and rolled the piece up. Sam gulped that down without chewing, so he never knew what he was getting.

Edited March 3, 2011 by KF_in_Georgia

[Batmom]

Metronidazole is frequently used for longterm therapy, and most dogs get along with it fine.

[Scooby172]

I had a grey with GI Lymphoma, talk about poop problems. We used Metronidazole for about six months without difficulties until he passed. Good luck.

Linda, Keeva and Bella

[dante2zoe]

I have used both Tylan powder and Flagyl for poop problems. Dante has IBS, not IBD (or whichever is the lesser of the 2 evils). He was on Flagyl for months and then Tylan powder. I actually purchased empty capsules and made me own pills. That stuff is truly nasty (don't ask!) We also combined the 2 when needed. I eventually weaned him to a raw diet, which had been a tremendous help for him and was able to stop both medications. He is now being treated for Lymes and is back on the Flagyl because the Doxy is killing his gut. (He takes other stuff for that, too.)

 

He has never had any side effects to any of the medications. He felt better, too. Good luck!

[GeorgeofNE]

My parents' dog has IBD, and he is on daily Flagyl. I think something to note about the scary quoted material is it clearly says "moderate to high dose." Davy takes a low dose. It's the only thing that controls his diarrhea--that and eating absolutely NOTHING but his Hill's diet.

[Guest BiancasMom]

My sister's GSD had severe IBD, she was on pred in the beginning but once it got under control, Tylan worked well. She was on Tylan for the rest of her life (lived to be 12) and Metronidazole when flare ups occured.

[kudzu]

Batmom is correct. Very many dogs have taken Flagyl safely. The overwhelming majority are on a short course of treatment but some can take it long term without obvious problems. However, some instances where it is prescribed long term there also is the possibility Tylan would be just as effective. Flagyl is the go to drug for certain problems and for very good reason. It is usually quite effective. The chances of neuro toxicity are very real nonetheless. It is important to know that before starting your dog on this drug. It is especially important to know that when considering a possible long term treatment as that is when the risks of toxicity go up greatly. The longer the treatment the greater the odds of problems.

 

My own dog had serious neuro side effects from Flagyl prescribed for short term treatment. In fact, that was the second time he had been prescribed Flagyl. The first time he suffered mild side effects that I did not correlate with the medicine. He was newly diagnosed with a polyneuropathy with wax & wane symptoms. Only later when reviewing his records was the correlation made. The second round of treatment brought on very swift & dramatic symptoms far worse than his neurological disease warranted. Stopping the Flagyl brought swift improvement of the adverse effects but not complete resolution. In my dog's case when he later was diagnosed with SIBO by a new IM resident I mentioned the prior problem. She looked in his ghastly thick file & suggested Tylan instead. She felt it would work just as well. She stated that her preference for Flagyl over Tylan for SIBO & some other instances is compliance. It is easier to administer Flagyl because Tylan tastes bad.

 

There are two other dogs who suffered neuro toxicity from Flagyl use. In both cases they were taking it long term & for reasons that made Tylan an option. In both cases the dogs showed mild neurological symptoms somewhat early in the course of treatment, several weeks to a couple months in, but the drug was not stopped until the symptoms grew worse. This is because people were not familiar with the possible neuro toxic effects of Flagyl. Their dogs did not present with symptoms resembling those listed in the warnings. In one case when the neuro symptoms were obvious enough to warrant a vet visit the vet stopped Flagyl treatment to determine if it was the culprit. This dog returned to near normal. In the other case even after symptoms had increased & the owner specifically asked the vet if Flagyl could be the cause the vet said he did not think so. He left the dog on Flagyl & suggested possible testing for a different cause. The drug treatment was stopped by the neurologist of a large specialty clinic. He was called in to examine this dog in ICU after being admitted the night before through ER. That dog nearly died. Though he lived & greatly improved there remained quite obvious impairment. Of note in his case is his owner's report of the dose being somewhat higher than normal for long term use.

 

Flagyl can be a miracle drug. It works quickly and has likely saved the lives of 1000's of times more dogs than it has harmed. Even after what happened to my prior dog I have used Flagyl for my Grey's colitis. In fact when her second colitis episode started I specifically asked for Flagyl. However, since I also personally know of three lives this drug harmed when other options were available I think it important to state this. In all cases some of the damage caused could have been avoided had the owners known Flagyl full potential. By known I mean known of actual cases not just warnings on the box. That may have allowed them to make the connection of that their dog's symptoms might be related to Flagyl.

 

Forewarned is forearmed. Drugs have side effects both good, which is why we use them, and bad, which is why we have warnings. Sometimes the best option is to use that drug anyway but with our eyes & minds open so we can catch a possible problem side effect before it becomes worse. Sometimes there is a different drug with less likely or less severe potential side effects. Often it is best to try the less dangerous drug first. For SIBO & some other GI illnesses Tylan can work quite well. Personally I would try it first in those cases. My Grey hasn't had a bout of colitis since switching to no grains but if she did I'd be banging on the vet's door asking for a some Flagyl.

Edited March 3, 2011 by kudzu

[Guest MZH]

Cullen, the fella in my avatar, was on Tylan long term. Every time I tried to take him off it, he'd relapse. He had late-onset epilepsy so Flagyl wasn't a good option for him. It didn't work after one trial anyway. I put the Tylan powder in capsules but putting it inside a slice of meat is so much easier.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Thank you so much for all the replies and info.

 

As I said in my OP Kelly is actually on Oxytet (oxytetracycline), but it's basically having the same effect as Flagyl/Tylan in that it's controlling the inflammation in his GI tract. As long as it gets this flare-up under control we'll probably keep him on it as he's had Flagyl once before (when all this first started, and we were with our old vet), and didn't do too well on it. However Tylan is something to consider should we need to try a different AB at any point. When I speak to our vet (haven't been able to get hold of her yet), I'll ask her about it.

 

As with Flagyl, Oxytet does have a risk of side effects, but like Flagyl the warnings are for high doses. Kelly has been on 1/3 of the 'normal' dose for a dog his size for a while now (500mg/day as opposed to 1500mg) so hopefully he will be okay.

 

Unfortunately food switching is not an option as he can't eat any sort of commercial dog food - even doggy toothpaste sets him off! The problem doesn't appear to be a sensitivity to a certain grain or protein but rather something added to the food in the manufacturing process. As a result he has to have a home-cooked bland diet (chicken/rice) plus supplements. Raw is also out because his immune system isn't that great and although we tried enzymes last year they made no difference whatsoever.

 

Hugs to everyone else with 'problem poop' dogs, I hope your pups are all doing ok.

[JJNg]

A lot of dogs who have IBD stay on Tylan or metronidazole for life. When using metronidazole long term, it is best to try to wean down to a lower dose, sometimes only once a day. I use metronidazole a lot and have never seen a neurologic reaction.

 

I really think it's very dose dependent, and when I was in vet school, the neurologist warned us to use low doses only and not to follow the dosage recommendation in the commonly used veterinary drug 'bible' (Plumbs). The older editions of this resource listed metronidazole doses of 25-50 mg/kg twice daily. I was taught to use it at 10-20 mg/kg and to never go over 30 mg/kg. It is usually just as effective at the lower doses, so no reason to go higher and risk neuro toxicity. I'm sure there are some dogs that are more sensitive and may have problems with the lower doses too, but that appears to be quite rare.

 

Also, metronidazole can be used with liver disease, but the dose needs to be significantly lowered. In fact, it is specifically used to treat cases of liver disease that have hepatic encephalopathy (neuro signs due to toxin buildup).

[Guest Stripeyfan]

I found a very interesting article here about the effects of Tylosin on diarrhea when I was browsing the web last night. It backs up what you've all said very nicely!

[greyhead]

I found a very interesting article here about the effects of Tylosin on diarrhea when I was browsing the web last night. It backs up what you've all said very nicely!

What a great article! Thanks so much for sharing it. Did you have to ask in some way for the English version? Does that journal have anything about intractible UTI's?!

 

FYI, Spencer is back on Flagyl. Upping his Tylosin dose hasn't been enough to take care of things. We were only off the Flagyl a few weeks when he had a flare. So I'm guessing Spencer is going to be a lifer on these meds. Hugs to you and Kelly!

 

Mary

[Guest Stripeyfan]

I found a very interesting article here about the effects of Tylosin on diarrhea when I was browsing the web last night. It backs up what you've all said very nicely!

What a great article! Thanks so much for sharing it. Did you have to ask in some way for the English version? Does that journal have anything about intractible UTI's?!

 

FYI, Spencer is back on Flagyl. Upping his Tylosin dose hasn't been enough to take care of things. We were only off the Flagyl a few weeks when he had a flare. So I'm guessing Spencer is going to be a lifer on these meds. Hugs to you and Kelly!

 

Mary

 

 

I just googled Tylosin for dogs, and it came up in English (although the rest of the site's in Finnish). A lucky find I guess.

 

Spoke to the vet this morning and she agrees it's probably time to keep Kelly on the ABs for good - she agrees that if chucking a couple of tablets a day at him is what it takes to keep him ticking over, then so be it! Sorry to hear Spencer's in the same situation (and about Shane's continuing problems too!).

 

We're still waiting for super-firm poop, but things were going the right direction this morning, and he hasn't had to go again yet which is usually a good sign, so fingers crossed...