Regression With Meds/separation Anxiety

[Laurenbiz]

I'm back with more Bernie issues!

 

Here is an older post of mine about his issues

And the post about us starting Clomipramine for anxiety

 

 

We started the Clomipramine last week. We cut a piece of a hot dog, stick it in the hot dog, and he takes the pills just fine.

 

We've literally started over with crate training, alone training, and desensitizing/counter-conditioning with his anxiety triggers. For about a week, we've only been doing 45 second bursts of alone time - he will whine if we stay away any longer.

 

This week, though, he's had two pretty bad days. Yesterday, he'd escaped his crate and tinkled in the kitchen.

 

Today, he escaped again! Justin put him in the crate today, and we both checked that he everything was securely latched. Some of the bottom horizontal bars near the latch are now bent inward. He has a few little nicks on his legs, too - I assume from this adventure. Today, after he escaped the crate, he pooped in the living room.

 

The vet did tell us that the anti-anxiety medication would not take effect immediately. I'm just getting concerned because Bernie actually hasn't escaped the crate before until recent!

 

We feel forced to crate him in order to contain his urinating. Even in a safe room or with the run of the house, he will urinate - with or without a belly band. (He somehow gets the belly band away from his groin to still be able to urinate, so the belly band isn't really effective!)

 

My question is: Where do I go from here? Crate training until I'm blue in the face, or is my only option an X-Pen or safe room now?

 

Thanks

[NeylasMom]

Have you tried gating him into a room? The thing is, he may still be destructive, in which case he could hurt himself either way. However, if the issue when gated is more one of urinating and less being destructive, then I really think you should switch. He could seriously injure himself escalating his attempts to escape the crate. And I am one of the people on this board who is generally an advocate of using crates. You could choose a room like the kitchen so clean up is easy (would actually think it would be easier than washing his crate bedding ).

 

Also, you might want to talk to your vet about something like Xanax to use until the meds kick in. If his behavior is escalating, I would worry about him hurting himself. I personally would probably also give the alone training a rest until the meds kick in. I found that with my dog, it was too much to try to do that after I had already been away at work (and therefore he had been anxious all day) during the week. If he's essentially forced to be anxious for 8 hrs a day 5 days a week it's difficult to make any progress with the training, which is why you went to the meds in teh first place, right? So give them time to kick in, then refocus your efforts.

 

That's my two cents at least.

 

Good luck, I know how frustrating this can be.

 

ETA: You could do simple training in the interim - things like picking up your keys or putting on your coat and sitting back down. Basically work on desensitizing him to specific triggers for now, since I'm guessing those are things that cause only mild or barely noticable anxiety, versus what happens when you actually leave.

[greyhoundgang]

the link of old issues didn't go anywhere, unfortunately.

 

so i'll respond without knowing the whole history.

 

1. Have you tried another dog around - even just temporarily? I would think that would calm his anxieties. Many greyhounds don't like being only dogs.

2. Can you put in a dog door - I've had one for 23 years - with hundreds of hounds passing through my doors.

3. Holistic methods to help him - Separation Anxiety remedies- without the side effects. Holistic Vet List

4. Exercise him more. Get him to run in fenced areas every day. A tired dog is a happy dog.

5. if you are both working, get someone to come over and let him out during the day

6. put him in doggie day care

7. Contact your group to help you through this

 

i hope something here helps. A peeing/pooping greyhound in the house is an unhappy dog. That is NOT a normal behavior for them unless they are trying to tell you about their unhappiness. If you can ascertain why he is unhappy and change that, you'll see a positive change in his behaviors.

[Batmom]

Something besides the crate. Once they start escaping, the risk is a lot worse than some pee here and there. I would probably try baby gating (NOT closed solid door!) into the most readily dog-proofable room that you all spend time in. If it's a smaller room, you can line it with cheap rubber-backed mats (like doormats; I get the 4' x 6' or 3' x 5' size) to make cleanup easier.

 

Hugs and best luck.

 

 

P.S. Where do you go for the 45 seconds? To teach him to be alone, you have to completely leave -- not somewhere else in the house/apartment, not just outside the door or out in the yard where he can hear you. I used to get in my car and drive @ 3 blocks up the street (1 block, they can still hear your car and ID it as yours). I always take out for potty before I start the process of "I am going to leave for 3 minutes, come back for 5, leave for 3, come back for 5" for the next hour.

[Laurenbiz]

the link of old issues didn't go anywhere, unfortunately.

 

so i'll respond without knowing the whole history.

 

1. Have you tried another dog around - even just temporarily? I would think that would calm his anxieties. Many greyhounds don't like being only dogs.

2. Can you put in a dog door - I've had one for 23 years - with hundreds of hounds passing through my doors.

3. Holistic methods to help him - Separation Anxiety remedies- without the side effects. Holistic Vet List

4. Exercise him more. Get him to run in fenced areas every day. A tired dog is a happy dog.

5. if you are both working, get someone to come over and let him out during the day

6. put him in doggie day care

7. Contact your group to help you through this

 

i hope something here helps. A peeing/pooping greyhound in the house is an unhappy dog. That is NOT a normal behavior for them unless they are trying to tell you about their unhappiness. If you can ascertain why he is unhappy and change that, you'll see a positive change in his behaviors.

 

Here is the link that didn't work originally:

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/266067-house-soiling-behavior-questions/page__p__4786698__hl__%2Bhouse+%2Bsoiling+%2Bbehavior__fromsearch__1#entry4786698

 

 

Unfortunately, we haven't been able to dog-sit for anyone since we've had Bernie since October. I've offered on the forum on my rescue group's website! He did spend four days at another volunteer's house in January. She was only able to leave her house twice - and left Bernie alone with her two Greys. One time, he did urinate, and the other time, he stayed dry. It's 50/50

 

We do walk him twice a day - always in the morning. He also has a big backyard that he loooooves running around in. I have not noticed a difference with his SA issues, even after exercising. He seems to potty in the house whether he got a 5 minute walk around the block, or an hour-long vigorous workout at the dog park!

 

The holistic remedies (DAP collar, DAP diffuser, DAP spray and wet wipes on bedding, Rescue Remedy,) are all on our "we've tried and it didn't work" list

 

Sorry that link didn't work!

 

For Batmom-

With alone training, we are going into the garage, opening and closing the garage door, and then just standing there. He starts whining after a few seconds of silence once the garage doors are finished closing. Going anywhere else in the house doesn't work with us, anyway - he could care less since he knows we're still there!

 

For Neyla-

Yes, his issue is the urinating. Really, we've had very few instances of being destructive until the crate issue recently. We've gated him into one room before, and we still had the same problems. I absolutely agree that this is safer than the crate!

 

Now that we've decided to ax the crate, Justin wants to let him roam the basement and make a carpeted area with dog beds, blankets, toys, etc. Bernie is just fine walking up and down stairs, and he occasionally wanders around down there on his own, anyway. The clean-up would be very easy since it's an unfinished basement. Since this isn't a high-traffic area of the house, though, I'm not sure if this is a good place? Or just the kitchen as a safe room? (His crate was in the kitchen.)

 

Thanks everyone!

Edited February 2, 2011 by Laurenbiz

[NeylasMom]

I think if you do the basement it's very quickly going to become a place he doesn't want to be since it sounds like the only time he'd generally be down there is when you put him there so you can leave. That could also be the problem with the escalating behavior in the crate if you're not also crating when you're home and in the room where the crate is.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't read the previous threads either, but I'm assuming you've ruled out medical issues and are certain this is SA? That's what it sounds like but just wanted to ask to be safe.

 

The second dog thing might be worth pursuing though. Do you have a friend with greys who would let you borrow her dogs fo ra day? I don't think one accident while staying with your friend is sufficient evidence that he isn't helped by other dogs - he could have just had an accident being in a new place. It's usually evident pretty quickly if another dog would help. I would give it a shot. Just ask your friend if you can borrow someone for a work day or two and make sure they are left in sight of ech other.

 

Even better if you can video tape him for a few days so you can see what his vocalization and other behavior is like, then again with the other dog there to see if it's significantly improved. Of course, if adopting another dog isn't an option for you, then this is all moot.

[Guest twhitehouse]

I think you said you already knew this but the medication will take about 1 month to see any results. I don't think the medication is causing these new escapes from the crate or anything....it's just a normal progression of the separation anxiety. My advice is stop crating him. It's hard because of what he does when he's out but he'll only continue to injure himself in trying to escape.

 

Don't use the basement, because like NeylasMom said, he'll see that as a bad place since you only put him there when you're leaving. Do you have another room with floors that would be easy to clean up like the kitchen that you could gate him into? If not, could you maybe gate him in another room and put down pee pads, etc?

 

With the alone training, we found that recording while we were gone really helped us with Lexi. It allowed us to really see what she was doing and the "symptoms" of her SA so that we could better understand and treat or prevent them from happening. Continue to stick with the alone training...it will pay off! With the barking and whining...do you have two cell phones or a house phone you could call before leaving...place that phone on speaker and then leave. If he starts to whine/bark say "No!" through the phone. I know another GTer had success with this with her dog. Remember to never come back in while he is whining, wait for a pause even if it's just a second of quiet.

 

Hopefully some of that might help. Don't give up....it's hard but you can get through it. Please keep us updated on how Bernie is doing.

[Maddiesmom]

Maddie did the same thing with escaping out of 2 metal crates (she bent the bars on one) and the other I still have not figured out how she got out of as everything was latched when I got home - and that was over 5 years ago, and she also got out of the plastic airline crate. We resorted to clomicalm as well with the advice of our vet as a last resort. What I did and it worked while she was on the clomicalm (and it was a big leap of faith for me being a first time greyhound owner) was take her out of the crate, put it in the garage and let her have free access to parts of the house. I shut doors and baby gated areas that I did not want her in. I dog proofed the house as I did not want to muzzle her all day and for about a week or so, I drove home everyday during lunch to check on her. After that I went to every other day to not 1 day a week to not coming home at all during lunch. I also wore her out by long walks and playing. I know some of this may not be possible for you- such as driving home during luch but this worked for us. we did the alone training as well and she took the medicine. I still give it to her in advance when I know we are going to be travelling as she is not good sometimes in hotels. I also muzzle her in the hotel and aslo wear her out there as well.

 

Stick with the alone training. Take one day at a home and it gets better, trust me, I was in your shoes and I have a competely different dog now who is not as scared and afraid as she once was, she is now a outgoing, loving and friendly goofy girl who is our best M& G dog.

 

Amy and Maddie

[Guest Shermanator]

2. Can you put in a dog door - I've had one for 23 years - with hundreds of hounds passing through my doors.

 

My bridge boy, Patton was a marker, and marked all over the house while we were away. We tried everything, more potty times, walks, etc, but he'd still pee. We had some success with the belly band, but I hated using it.

We put in a dog door, left it open at all times, problem solved.

 

 

My bridge boy Sherman was TERRIFIED of the crate. We tried crate training him (we were told that was the best thing to do to acclimate him in the house and our family,) but Sherman was having NONE of it. We'd leave and have to force him in the crate, and when we'd return home, he destroyed the crate, and was crying and barking desperately. (Lots of explosive poo, chewing on the bars of the crate, and scrambling so much in the crate, he was ramming it into the wall, he was destroying the wall. The last straw was when we came home, and he broke a tooth, had horrible, big D, and set the house alarm off. (He rammed the cage so hard into the wall when he heard us come home, he set the glass breakage sensors off.) That was it. We took the crate OUT of the house, so he didn't see it at all. The first time we left him alone, we video taped him, so we knew what he was doing. We had 2 hours of him dead asleep. We never had a problem with him after that.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Shermanator