Prayers Needed

[greyhead]

Sometimes when Spencer doesn't want anything for breakfast, he'll gobble up Ensure! We stick with the regular, not the Extra Super-Duper stuff, whatever they call it.

 

Also, B-12 injections spur appetite. If there's intestinal malabsorption for any reason, he'll be needing those. Soonest.

[Guest bigorangedog]

Hi there Harley's momma - I've been checking in to see how Harley's doing, but haven't posted. Is there a list someplace of what things are NOT allowed for Harley? I'm sorry if it's in here someplace and I missed it. But that might help us all to think of suggestions.

 

When my boy Crisco was not eating (he had a spinal tumor and the pain meds upset his tummy) we tried lots of different things, so I know a tiny bit how you feel. Have you tried some canned dog foods? EVO makes some that are 95% pure lamb, or venison, or salmon, or beef (no grains). They also have some with potato, etc. They are smelly enough that they tempted him sometimes. Making some pan-seared lamb chops (yes, expensive) or potroast worked for us. Are you allowed to cook things in butter at all, or are dairy products bad? What if you take some grain-free kibble and soak it in warmed up meat broth? You've probably tried tripe already? Actually one of the most reliable things with Crisco was this totally nasty canned dog food from Nutro called "chunks and gravy." Heck, if he's eating the canned salmon, perhaps you could mix it up with something like rice to dilute the salt content a bit but keep the smell going. Or try the canned salmon for a while and see if it upsets his tummy or not, who knows. At least it's something he'll eat.

 

I'll keep thinking.... Really wishing for the old Happy Harley to come back!!

[Guest mysymba]

May the angels watch over Harley and heal him quickly....I am so sorry you are all going through this...bless him....

[TheFullHouse]

The fact that he wants to eat but won't unless it's something really appetizing to him makes me wonder if he's nauseous. When I was having problems with Gee eating, it was nausea that was preventing her from eating unless it was really good. You might try getting something for nausea and see if that improves things.

[DesiRayMom]

Just a FWIW: My vet has had some sucess with using Mirtazipine as an appetite stimulant. But with all the other things he's on,

it may seem like overdoing it....Also, just a thought....DesiRay was on Pred for a while last year for his foot issues.

He lost 10 lb even while still eating like a horse. I'm sure it was the Pred, cause as soon as I quit that, he bounced back

to normal weight.

 

Thinking of Harley.......

 

Kathy

[BatterseaBrindl]

When 11 yr old Bandit stopped eating just before Christmas- and the vets never did figure out why - we tried several different kinds of soft/stinky foods.

The thing that got her back on track was 'Tripe'.

It smells awful but as soon as I opened the can, she started drooling and gobbled it up.

We got Lamb Tripe as she is on a lamb-based diet, but you can get fish - salmon I think- and beef,as well as Venison Tripe.

Tripe is available at most pet food stores.

 

We added small amounts of it to the gastro food from the vet, then slowly replaced that with a bit of her kibble.

 

Within a week she was eating mostly kibble with a spoonful of Tripe.

Edited January 26, 2011 by BatterseaBrindl

[Burpdog]

The fact that he wants to eat but won't unless it's something really appetizing to him makes me wonder if he's nauseous. When I was having problems with Gee eating, it was nausea that was preventing her from eating unless it was really good. You might try getting something for nausea and see if that improves things.

 

yes to that. Carafate is a wonderful drug

 

If he's not eating, try different things, made different ways. For Tony, some days he likes roast beef, some days fried hamburgers, some days chicken roasted, then shake & bake, and on and on. Some of his standards to eat are cookies and some days that is breakfast.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I know how frustrating it is when a dog won't eat. I agree with Judy, if he is interested in the food but spits it out, it sounds like nausea. Chase is having some issues right now too, being super picky with her food, because the antibiotics she's on are upsetting her tummy. Last night she kept chewing the food and spitting it out. She finally ate chicken and dumplings (that was our dinner ). Tonight she did eat boiled chicken mixed with gross canned food (Alpo Slices? I think she liked the gravy sauce stuff). I was able to get her to lap up some Ensure later too.

 

If Harley loses any more weight, I would also consider force-feeding with a syringe. (I like to mix A/D canned food with Ensure). You might need to force-feed for a few days to get him over this hump, then he'll start eating again on his own. Unless there are specific items/proteins you need to avoid, I would try different things to get him to eat, and also look into an anti-nausea med and force-feeding if necessary. I hope you can figure this out and get some food into Harley. Good luck!

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

 

[mychip1]

Continue to send best wishes for Harley......We are thinking of you.

[Guest bigorangedog]

The fact that he wants to eat but won't unless it's something really appetizing to him makes me wonder if he's nauseous. When I was having problems with Gee eating, it was nausea that was preventing her from eating unless it was really good. You might try getting something for nausea and see if that improves things.

 

yes to that. Carafate is a wonderful drug

 

If he's not eating, try different things, made different ways. For Tony, some days he likes roast beef, some days fried hamburgers, some days chicken roasted, then shake & bake, and on and on. Some of his standards to eat are cookies and some days that is breakfast.

 

What about an anti-emetic drug like Cerenia? We used both the pills and the injectable with Whitey and Apollo during chemo. The injectable in particular seemed to help -- we gave the shots at home. (BTW Sucralfate can reduce the absorption of the other meds he is on, just fyi.)

[Guest HappyHarleysMom]

Thank you so much for the suggestions. I am going to write them all down and ask Dr. Wade. It's 11am, and I have a message in for her to call me back. I need all the help I can get, so thank you, and I'm definitely going to ask about all of these suggestions since my last post.

 

I talked to Dr. Wade last night, and then after Harley's pill times, and feeding times, frankly I think I passed out. I slept on and off from 11pm - 2am, then pill time again, then from 2:30am to 6am, pee time, then about 6am to 8am pill time! Wow.

 

We have good news and bad news, but we're hanging in there, and we still have hope.

 

Dr. Wade's call last night - I took notes:

 

The liver enzymes:

Harley's ALT was in the 800's, and now is in the 400's. They should be around 150, I believe. So, still high, but improved.

Harley's billirubin was 1.6 and now is .4, which is back to normal!

The thought is that his liver is just inflamed because everything else in his gut is inflamed from the IBD.

 

CPL - should be 400, but Harley's is 559, so he has some pancreatitis. But, since lots of vomiting is usually seen with pancreatitis, and Harley is not vomiting at all, both Dr. Wade and Dr. Martinez do not think he needs hospitalization at this time. We need to keep doing what we're doing.

 

Harley's white count is high, but they think it's again, from all his inflamation, and he is on antibiotics to help this.

 

So, as long as Harley maintains his current state, or improves, no hospitalization needed. We are to check blood work next week.

 

Food: low fat proteins and carbs, no beef.

Try different shapes of pasta, try pureeing or putting it in blender--try different ways

 

toast: I asked what kind as I have potato bread, and whole wheat bread, and she said either one. She said toast it though, as we don't want a big glob of bread going through his system. I tried potato toast last night, and he LOVED it. Harley ate one piece of toast every 2-3 hours 3 times. YAY!!!!!

 

I can try white potatoes, sweet potatoes, turkey, chicken, salmon, other fish like mackeral, flounder.

Baby food - turkey, sweet potato

Pedialite, water it down

Ensure - I think - I can't remember what she said and it's not in my notes I was writing while she was talking

 

She said introduce one new carb and one new protein a day - not to throw all new stuff at once, which is difficult since Harley currently isn't eating any familiar stuff. The salmon was introduced two days ago, and he's eating that, and he's eating potato toast. She said try mixing pasta with other things like the meat, which I have already tried to no avail. So, this time I will try mixing it in the blender, and maybe the different consistency will do the trick. And, to try new things in small amounts, only a cup at a time. Well, Harley is only eating a cup of anything at at time, so that's covered.

 

I had to resort to canned salmon because he now won't eat boiled salmon. Dr. Wade said that's ok once a day. She said the salt isn't the best thing, but if that is what it takes to get Harley to eat, I can do it once a day, and even try to rinse it first.

 

Oatmeal - not the best idea unless in very small amounts because the high fiber would be like a big glob going through his system. I will save this idea as a last resort in case nothing else works.

 

Chicken broth - if I can get Har to lap some up, he will get electrolytes from it which would be good.

 

Slippery Elm - no to this one at this time

 

Budesonide instead of Prednisone - this will be considered as a maintenance drug but right now he needs Prednisone, that they found Prednisone to be more reliable

Milk thistle for liver - the Denemarin already has the milk thistle at the highest potency. Later, as a maintenance drug, milk thistle which is cheaper, or Denesil as a maintenance drug which is cheaper, but right now Denemarin is best for the high potency

 

Cenenia or Reglan for nausea - not right now, that normally is used when vomiting is happening, and Harley has not vomited since before the hospital stay

 

Sweet potatoes or white potatoes - experiment after peeling and boiling - Harley may like them cut up, mashed, who knows until I try.

 

Harley now has diarrhea again, but it's light brown, almost yellow. So, I will call Dr. Wade to tell her. I don't know if this is good or bad but at least there is no blood.

 

He's acting about the same. He is very interested when I tell him I'm getting ready to fix him tater toast, or salmon. So, I would say some things are better, some worse like the pancreatitis, but we're still hanging in there.

 

And, thank you for hanging in there with us. I'm about to go try food ideas for him, so I'll pop in later. Time for the blender now.

 

love and hugs,

Sherry

[AEB]

Glad things are still ok. As for sweet potatoes, they are for lean dogs to add weight. I feed them to Kevin when we have them. He digests them very well. They have more nutrition than white and I think they are more appealing to the dogs. Ask the Dr. if you can roast them- it makes them so sweet. (You probably already know this, but in case you don't eat them) Just prick them all around and throw them in the 400 degree oven for about an hour. Put foil under them because they will drip juices that will burn onto your oven and smoke. When the skins seem to have pulled away and they smell sweet and are squishy to the touch they are done . Let them cool and then you can just peel the skins off easily or squeeze them out of the skins. You could spread them on the toast or mix them with eggs whites. I bet he likes them!

 

Also ask her about Quinoa. It is a high protein, low fat grain that is very nutritious. You could use it in place of pasta. Maybe he'd like it mixed into the sweet potato mash with some salmon or egg whites.

 

I know that feeling of wanting them to eat something, anything. I hope he continues on a good course. Hang in there, you're a greyt mom.

[TheFullHouse]

Good luck with the blender. It worked wonders for my Emmy when she wouldn't eat anything solid. I put everything in the blender and pureed it and she would eat like she was drinking water. Hopefully it works for you and you can get some different foods in him that way. You keep fighting Harley!

[Guest HappyHarleysMom]

Oh, thank you guys! I have a hand held puree thingy and a blender. I'm going to the kitchen shortly. Har just ate about 3/4 of salmon. So far today, 1 piece potato bread toast and the salmon.

 

I'll ask about quinoa too. I hadn't thought about that one, but I've heard of it.

 

Talk to you later.

[Guest bigorangedog]

Oh, thank you guys! I have a hand held puree thingy and a blender. I'm going to the kitchen shortly. Har just ate about 3/4 of salmon. So far today, 1 piece potato bread toast and the salmon.

 

I'll ask about quinoa too. I hadn't thought about that one, but I've heard of it.

 

Talk to you later.

 

Yeah, we are vegetarian and eat quinoa a lot. It cooks up like rice, and you could try cooking it in broth for flavor. Very nutritious! I make a "quinoa meatloaf" at holidays. If you can have grains and soy, there are a bunch of vegetarian proteins (like mock duck or seitan, tempeh, flavored tofus) that you might try. Need a trip to Whole Foods Market. If you can find it, maybe try a sprouted grain bread like Ezekiel brand. Very high protein. Usually found in the freezer section.

[mychip1]

Thrilled to hear that you are finding some things that your boy will eat!!! He's lucky to have such a great Mom!

[Guest greystoked]

Just adding some more prayers...

[joejoesmom]

I have been lurking but my thoughts and prayers have been with you and Harley all along.

 

I just wanted to add that if you use quinoa, be sure to rinse it very, very well before cooking. I learned the hard way that if you don't rinse it well before cooking, it is quite bitter. (I guess it could have just been the batch I had, I guess. But when I rinsed the same batch really well, it was good -- not an expert quinoa chef in any way though).

[Guest HappyHarleysMom]

Good info on quinoa for me, thanks joejoesmom and Jen. I am waiting to hear back from Dr. Wade to get 2 meds refilled.

 

Dr. Martinez did call - she said the pancreatitis is the worry now, with his runny diarrhea. She told me if Harley keeps drinking and eating, he won't need hospitalization for fluids. I pray it doesn't come to that because we can't do that--no $$. But, I remember someone here suggesting doing fluids myself, I think it was BatMom (could be wrong and didn't check back before writing this post). Well, if it comes to that point, I am going to ask Dr. Wade if I can, in fact, buy the fluid stuff and do it myself.

 

But, that's getting ahead--he is still drinking plenty--with Pedialite in the water, and he's eating--not enough, but he's eating. If we can ride out the pancreatitis, maybe it will get better.

 

Dr. Martinez wants me to reduce the 20mg Prednisone tomorrow, from 1 1/2 tabs twice daily, to 1 tab twice daily. If he gets worse after I reduce the dose, I'll need to call her back.

 

Dr. Martinez told me that Ensure is for hydrating, and can promote diarrhea, so I don't want to do that right now since he's drinking.

 

Regarding force feeding, she said, yeah I can do that, but if Harley isn't eating, it's the reason behind it, and he would need hospitalization at that point, so we don't want to get to the point where he will only eat if I force feed.

 

Now, my worry is, if I force feed now as a supplemental to his eating like a bird/not enough, then I am afraid I will make him so nauseous he will vomit. If he starts vomiting, I will have to hospitalize him, which is not an option.

 

The downside of him still eating, is that he isn't eating enough to gain any weight--in fact, remember he went from 64 lbs when discharged two weeks ago, to 59 lbs this week. How low can he go? I think I remember Dr. Martinez saying if he lost more weight, he'd need hospitalization--not an option for me..I could be wrong about that last comment. My head is spinning.

 

The other thought is, maybe he will gain weight when I reduce the Prednisone tomorrow.

 

Any thoughts on my thoughts and Dr. Martinez's message?

[TheFullHouse]

I know you said Harley won't eat rice, but if you puree it into the other food you're feeding, it's a good way to get it in him without him knowing. That may help with the stool problem. I found I could puree almost anything into what Emmy liked and she would eat it.

[Guest HappyHarleysMom]

Judy, thanks, great idea. Geez, right in front of me and I couldn't think of it.

 

We did good so far today - another piece of toast and 7.5 oz of Beechnut chicken/chicken broth baby food. He likes that.

 

The prior feeding he ate 1/2 cup pureed pasta mixed with baby food sweet potato, and a piece of toast.

 

First meal this morning was about 3/4 cup salmon and a piece of toast.

 

Not enough but it's only 4pm, and it's more than he has eaten since before he had to fast for blood work on Tuesday! I'm very pleased with it.

 

He hasn't pooped since early this morning when it was runny. Just peed.

 

He is drinking plenty, and it's pedialite water, so that's good.

 

I was eating a grilled cheese sandwich and he came right over to me, standing there wanting some of my sandwich, so that's good, even though he couldn't have any--at least it was "old" Harley the beggar. So, he is hungry.

 

so far so good today, except the runny poop. We've got to kick this pancreatitis.

 

Thank you so much for keeping the prayers going. He needs them badly. I really appreciate it. I figure strength in numbers for positive thoughts and prayers right? Certainly can't hurt, that's for sure, so again, thanks very, very much.

[TheFullHouse]

No problem, you've got so much on your mind, I can't imagine how you keep it all straight. If he's eating baby food, why not try some chicken and rice baby food. I'm not sure what dogs in his condition can have so I'm just throwing out the lowest fat things I can think that have some carbohydrates in them.

 

Sounds like today is a good day! Keep it up Harley!

[AEB]

Ok, like Judy said, puree the rice. And try it with quinoa. Try brown rice because it has more nutrition. It also has more flavor and maybe its fiber will help firm his poo?

 

My cautions on any broth (because we used them for Sadie's homecooking)- most are high sodium and most have onions and garlic in them. It's so hard to find one that has nothing from the allium family. You either have to make your own or we found one by Swanson that was low sodium and had no onion or garlic. But, it might have been beef?? Not sure if there was a chicken kind.

 

Also, is he on a probiotic to help with the wipeout that has surely occurred to his intestinal flora from all the big D?

 

Just keep trying the feedings as frequently as possible. It will help keep his appetite up and if all he can handle are small amounts it will help with the weight. But weight is so hard, especially when you have to limit a part of their diet or they are refusing food. Just hang in there and watch what he's showing interest in. Keep drinking those fluids Harley!

[Burpdog]

Is he on prescription enzymes? If not, it's a good idea.

[greyhead]

What different roles do Drs. Wade and Martinez play for Harley? Is one of them an internist and one his regular vet?