Osteo Thread

[NeylasMom]

Rear, left leg above the knee

 

I wish i didn't have to work tonight. He's been getting me up every hour the last 2 nights and now he's restless again. I asked the vet about this and she said at night is common. He's hot (his yin, I think) and losing his fur. I wish I had taken notes but I had no idea the appt was going to turn out this way.

It's okay, it takes a few days to let things sink in. Maybe you can use work as an opportunity to write down a list of questions and call your vet on Monday once things have really sunk in to follow-up and get reminders of things from today you missed? Hopefully by then you'll also have heard back from Dr. Couto. You saw the new way to submit requests for consults that Jane posted about, right? It has to be down through that site now, but there is a way to attach images of x-rays.

[Wonder]

I feel like I'm gonna throw up. I tried to eat but can't.

 

He just had big d, poor guy. I guess that's prob why he's been pacing. It's just too damn cold out to keep going out to try to poo.

[Guest azlorenz]

Thanks again for the advice. You seem to be quite knowledgeable.

Clearly still quite a bit I don't know, just learned something new from you. The seizure bit is actually really good to know, it's the one thing I really worried about when we started combining a lot of meds. If I remember correctly, Gabapentin also lowers the seizure threshold, as does the tri-cyclic anti-depressant we were considering adding so I was nervous.

 

 

On a separate note, I hope no one minds if I share that I am having a really rough day. Dealing with Neyla's loss seems to be getting harder, not easier. I have been really bad about going to work - have been taking time off or calling in sick or "working from home" - the primary reason I think being that I can't bear to come home. I cry every time I drive home from work. My favorite part of my day was coming home to Neyla greeting me at the door and as soon as I start driving I start thinking about her not being there. Zuri is still crated when I'm gone so it's even more obvious then. Today was my first day in the office this week b/c of hte holiday on Monday and then ice yesterday so the drive home was bad.

 

On top of that, I ahve been starting to give Zuri furniture privileges. I would never let him on the couch before - there just wasn't room for all 3 of us and he never showed interest, plus Neyla was here long before him, but he's been getting in bed with me and doing well with that so tonight I lifted him onto the couch. He settled right in and I just lost it. I want to have him up here, but that was Neyla's spot. I can't stop crying. Every time I think I'm getting myself under control, I look over at Zuri and lose it again.

 

I just miss my girl so much. I would give anything to have even just one more minute with her.

 

[greysmom]

OK - so Dude is doing really very well, considering. My biggest concern now is how to best protect his one hind leg that's left. It's swollen around his hock, but I don't think it's bothering him. Or maybe it's just not bothering him enough compared to everything else???

 

Should I give him a joint supplement (Greyhound Gang?) ? Is there some sort of support boot or guard he could wear on that hind leg?

[NeylasMom]

Chris, do you know why it's swollen? Is the swelling new? Any chance it's edema (fluids) that are pooling?

 

Our group considers a joint supplement standard for any grey over 6 or 7 years old so I don't think that's a bad idea in general, same with fish oil both for joint support and immune health, but if there's swelling, I would think you'd want to get to the source of it.

[greysmom]

I think it's still leftover swelling from being hospitalized? His other two legs were a bit swollen, though they returned to normal within a couple days.

[queenwinniesmom]

Chris, that swelling in the other leg was one thing that freaked me out during Winnie's recovery. I was about to take her to the vets, and found out on Circle Of Grey that the swelling is common and will go away. You can use warm compresses on it. That does help, and I think they like it. Of course, if it goes on for too long and he's clearly uncomfortable, that's different. I would start him on some fish oil at least. Good immune system booster, and it may help the joints a little too. I did give Winnie glucosamine as well. Have you looked into artemisinin? You can research it online---I think there is even a Yahoo Group---and with COG. If you decide to use it, just make sure it is from a reputable source. I used info I got from the cancer issue of Celebrating Greyhounds. It's been a while, so I forget the name of the company. There are several good sources.

 

Dude is still in my prayers, every day. And Sparks will be too. Kari, I am so, so sorry.

 

Jen, my heart is breaking for you. I know how it feels to think (or hope) you have things somewhat under control, and then have that grief sneak up behind you and just blindside you. If anything, I've learned that grief doesn't proceed in a linear fashion. And the more beautiful, happy memories you have just increases the chance that something small, or something meaningful, will bring all those feelings rushing back. But thank goodness for those memories. In time, they truly are a comfort, and one day, you'll realize that the memories bring more smiles than tears.

My Nick used to be the only one who slept with me. And that bed was SO empty without him. But then Lydia decided that it was time for her to be there beside me. It wasn't the same for the longest time, but I started to think that maybe there was a reason that Lydia was there. She wasn't taking Nick's place in the most literal sense, but she was helping me. I needed her help, and I think she knew. Maybe Zuri knows too. When you're ready, he can help you too.

[Wonder]

And Sparks will be too. Kari, I am so, so sorry.

Thanks

I'm at work right now and just told one of the residents and I started bawling. I work in a nursing home but had only brought Sparks one time.

[Guest roselle]

Rear, left leg above the knee

 

I wish i didn't have to work tonight. He's been getting me up every hour the last 2 nights and now he's restless again. I asked the vet about this and she said at night is common. He's hot (his yin, I think) and losing his fur. I wish I had taken notes but I had no idea the appt was going to turn out this way.

Kari, I'm so sorry to hear about Wonder's diagnosis. This group is so supportive to one another, you are not alone. Sending strength and cyber hugs. Roselle and Gracy

[Guest PhillyPups]

Jen,

 

You started an awesome thread here. Just read it all. I so wish I had something like this to help when I first dealt with osteo with SugarBear - way before my GT days. I wish this thread was not needed by anyone -

 

I have read this thread with tears streaming down my face - today it makes one week since I lost Gremlin to cancer - I survived the week, barely. What you are going through, Jen, is what I consider normal. I lost 5 hounds since 2007, 3 to cancer - it never gets easier, it never gets painless, and no being can ever replace any of them. Each one leaves a pawprint in our heart.

 

Gremlin left a crater in my heart and soul. This is the first I have even been able to communicate how large the void is, and this is with 4 other hounds in the home. She was one huge presence - with a personality larger than life. I did, recently find one of her daughters, who is racing at Mobile and Departing Deon (Deon) will be coming to Philly upon her retirement.

 

Jen take care of you, but I will share this. When I lost my first, my Runner, very suddenly, I swore I would not have another living thing in my home. A friend pointed out that SugarBear was in mourning too. Zuni is mourning the loss of his companion along with you.

 

Sorry this was so long ~ osteo sukks.

 

Pat

[greysmom]

Nancy Thanks for the reassurances! I know I'm freaking a little right now about everything - Dude is actually doing better than I am.

 

He already gets Salmon Oil on his food (two squirts a day). Does he need more than that or a different kind? I'll look into the joint supplement too.

 

I haven't had time to look at Circle of Grey yet. Another thing on the to-do list.

 

 

[NeylasMom]

Chris, I am guessing he could use more, but it's hard to say without knowing the dosage of what you're giving him. What brand are you using, or even better, if it tells you how much EPA and DHA per pump, can you post that? The cancer dosage is quite high - I've used Grizzly Salmon and Icelandic and in both cases I noticed that the appropriate dosage for Neyla was about twice what was recommended for her weight, but that was those 2 brands. If Dude can tolerate it, I would do the cancer dosage rather than the "normal dog" dose. Dr. Dressler's book has the actual amounts, I can look it up for you if you post the EPA/DHA in yours.

 

 

Kari, hang in there. I wish we were closer so we could get together. I feel like I'm reliving everything I went through with Neyla with each post about Sparks. Just know my heart is with you.

 

Nancy, thank you so much. I hear what you're saying. I have honestly been surprised at how easily Zuri has transitioned to the furniture, and just to us spending more time together. I worried iwth his already existing slight anxiety that he would get too clingy, or on the other hand, wouldn't want to share him personal space, but he acts like he's always belonged right here at my side, with his head on my lap. I think he does need me as much as I need him and we are supporting each other. I just hope I am doing enough for him.

 

Pat, it's good to see you in here. I can't thank you enough for all of the support you've given me. I wish there were something I could do to help you with your loss of Gremlin. Happy to hear at least that you might get one of her pups to help fill the void in your heart.

 

You know, I always thought that I wouldn't want another dog for a long time like you said Pat, but I'm surprised to find that I think I could welcome a new dog into our home at some point in the not too distant future. It's sort of hard to say whether I'd be ready soon emotionally, but I don't think it's in the cards for us for other reasons. I will start fostering again at some point, but I think Zuri deserves my undivided attention for a while.

 

Now who's going on and on... But those who have been hanging out in this thread for a while have probably come to expect this from me. Back to my pinot.

[greysmom]

We use the regular Grizzly Salmon Oil. I'll have to see if the jug says what the dosage is actually. I usually give them all two full pumps at breakfast, so maybe about 2 tablespoons a day. If I give them more than that, they sometimes have looser stools, so I've been erring on the side of caution and firm poop!

 

Is the Greyhound Gang joint supplement considered a good one? What should I look for?

 

Dude the Priate Boy update - he's doing really well - almost back to normal interactions with us and the other dogs. He's got a good attitude and is very positive for the most part. I catch him looking at his stump ocassionally, like he's puzzled or confused, not like he's upset or anything. We'll start cutting back on his pain meds to see how he handles that.

 

We have to watch him like a hawk because he keeps wanting to go upstairs to the bedroom (his favorite spot in the world is on our bed sleeping with his Daddee!). Tonight will be the first night I'm home with him by myself. DH took last week off and we were splitting shifts as to who was downstairs with him. I got a camping cot so I don't have to try and sleep in a chair. He'll be going up and down te stairs soon though, and I can't wait for things to get back to close to normal.

[brindlebaby]

A quick update on Callie... she's doing amazingly well! She actually ran from me (well trotted fast) as I wanted her to go outside to go potty and she wanted to go to her bed in our bedroom. (it's cold and snowy, maybe that's why )

 

I look at the pictures on my cell phone of her in the hospital, her chest was beet red and her belly red and irritated. It looks perfect now... is that from taking the Amacar??

 

She did have a fall Friday night...Herman was sleeping in bed and I fell asleep on the couch. She came from the bedroom and went to the back door where she used to go outside (we now take her the front way, only one step). She peed and then tried to poop and her back legs slid out to either side. I heard the commotion because of Pixie and Sammie alerting me. There was blood on her quilt later and I discovered she skinned her elbow.

 

Since then we are trying to be more attentive of her going out and taking her more often. Sometimes when she pants, I think that means she has to go out instead of being in pain like I thought.

 

If someone is at the door, she gets up and walks to the living room to greet them. Her appetite is still good, woofs down her breakfast and dinner. For the last two days, she has stood to eat (with me standing by her). She seems to swallow better if she stands.

 

 

 

I go back to work tomorrow and don't want to leave her. Herman will be with her and two days he can't, my mom will sit with her.

 

My birthday is next month and we are supposed to go over to my brother and SIL's house for dinner, etc. I told them I'd rather have it here, because I don't want to leave Callie alone, especially for that long. They keep saying that's three weeks off. I mentioned tonight that maybe we'll just bring Callie with us, bring along a bed for her and she can come too. Her birthday's February 28th, so we'll make it a joint celebration.

 

 

As I look at Callie tucked in her bed in our bedroom tonight, she seems to be thinking. I wish I knew what, maybe about the past two weeks. I just love my girl so much.

 

 

 

 

I have a question regarding chemo... how long does it take (like how long are you at the hospital), how do the dog's react, is it hard on them? I'd like to know when I go back to work so I can tell them I need off because I want to be there with her. I'm also going to take off (although they don't know it) when she gets her bandage off this week.

 

 

Chris, I'm happy that Dude is continuing to do well at home. Callie's legs never swelled, but I think someone mentioned to me about that. I hope they go down very soon. Sounds like Dude is wanting things to get back to normal too, I know Callie wanted things the way they were before. I thought she would lay on the air mattress we put in the front room for her and even questioned when she was getting discharged how often we had to move her. I had no clue she would immediately be getting up and going from room to room, scaring the heck out of us! I'm thrilled she is wants to be independent so quickly, just scares me sometimes! Everytime she gets up, I'll right by her side. She'll be glad I'm going back to work tomorrow.

 

 

Kari, I'm devastated to hear that Sparks has osteo. You're both in my thoughts and prayers as we all fight this monster together.

Edited January 24, 2011 by brindlebaby

[Guest PhillyPups]

It is heartwarming to start my day with positive updates on Callie and Dude. Charlie is an inspiration to all.

 

Continued for all.

[Wonder]

Kari, I'm devastated to hear that Sparks has osteo. You're both in my thoughts and prayers as we all fight this monster together.

Thank you

 

Prayers and good thoughts for everyone else dealing with this.

 

 

Kari, hang in there. I wish we were closer so we could get together. I feel like I'm reliving everything I went through with Neyla with each post about Sparks. Just know my heart is with you.

 

Thanks Jen

 

I'm in tears now because I'm telling a few people at work.

[NeylasMom]

We use the regular Grizzly Salmon Oil. I'll have to see if the jug says what the dosage is actually. I usually give them all two full pumps at breakfast, so maybe about 2 tablespoons a day. If I give them more than that, they sometimes have looser stools, so I've been erring on the side of caution and firm poop!

Assuming 2 pumps from the larger bottle? The pump amount is different on the smallest bottle, which is why I ask. I was giving Neyla 3 pumps per day when she was on the Grizzly I think, but I'm not 100%, I'd have to look back. You can call the Grizzly company and they will give you the amounts of EPA and DHA per pump depending on which bottle you have. I will look at home tonight and see if I still have the info, if not I will at least post Dr. Dressler's recs on EPA/DHA. Regarding the loose stool, have you tried spreading it out over multiple meals? Neyla got 2 pumps 3x/day, with morning meds, with dinner, and with her arte at bedtime. Fish oil (ie. fat) does help absorption of some supplements so that may be something to consider regarding timing. Or you could just stick with what's been working for you.

 

Glad to hear that Callie and Dude are both recovering so well! It's really heartwarming to hear.

[3DogNite]

I just talked with Claudia (greyhound gang) about your question of their supplements: Greysmom was asking about supplements:

 

Claudia's suggestion is that "the 4 pack" would be really good for your dogs once they have recovered from the amputation surgery. I think that's the Glucosamine, Vit C, MSM and Condroiton. Let them heal from the surgery, then start up with the supplements. But the Yucca intensive: start immediately!

do not change the dosage amount suggested on the package.

 

The supplements will help the remaining 3 legs work to the best of their ability! keeping the joint mobility and fluid in the joints is really important. The supplement doesn't slow the Osteo unfortunatly,, but the other 3 legs will have the extra support they need. Yucca Intensive is a tincture that works WONDERS for inflammation and pain. I use in instead of Rimadyl or Meticam for arthritis and other aches and pains.

 

GreyhoundGang.org has a lot of medical information on their web site....

 

 

 

on a side note: I am praying for you and your doggies! I read and cry with you all daily and will do a happy dance naked in the street when we find a cure for this awful ~ AWFUL cancer!!!

 

Lorinda

[greysmom]

Thanks Lorinda! Awesome info! I'll check out the website.

[NeylasMom]

I would research a little more before adding vit C. It won't hurt, but it could be a waste of your money. Research indicates that much of what is taken orally is lost through the urine, rather than absorbed into the bloodstream. Vit C injections are a much more effective way of actually getting the benefit from it.

[Wonder]

I heard back from Dr Couto's team, posted in a seperate thread.

[RedFawnMom]

Hi everyone. I'm sorry to be joining you here, but so grateful to have people to turn to for support. Lucy's biopsy results came back (I posted a separate thread) and whether it's osteo or chondrosarcoma, amputation would be our best bet for giving her more time with us. DH and I talked about it for a while today and we both agree that she'd probably bounce back and be our same bouncy, happy, outgoing girl that she is now, as a tripawd. I'm just worried about how we'll handle the recovery. I know I started a thread back in December asking for info about amp, and I'll go back and read through that again, but specifically, for those of you who chose amp, how long was it before things were more or less back to the normal routine? At what point were you able to leave the dog alone while you were at work (with someone checking in mid-day or so)? What sort of assistance did your pup need and for how long?

 

My job is pretty flexible and I can work at home quite a bit, but I'm not going to be able to help her out into the snow to potty, etc, since I'm barely walking myself. DH can take some time off, but wouldn't be able to stay home for 2+ weeks, and I'm guessing it's going to be a good 3 weeks or for the initial recovery, is that correct?

[greysmom]

Dude's (back leg) amp was a week ago yesterday and he's mainly back to normal. He even went up a flight of stairs to the bedroom last night. He has had a very easy recovery - he never stopped eating and drinking, and pooped the first day home. He does tire quickly still and we'll need to work on his stamina some.

 

I would be OK leaving him now for a few minutes, but worry about the other four in the house, so we won't be for a few more days. I also think a front leg amp is harder to recover from and to adapt to just because it alters their gait more and they have to work harder.

 

I also think amputation is waaaaaaaaaay harder on us than it is on them.

[NeylasMom]

Jess, I'm not the right person to answer your questions, there are others on here who can speak from their own experience, but I just wanted to welcome although of course we wish you didn't have a reason to be here. If you haven't yet, reading Jen's (bigorangedog's) blog might be a good place to start right now. The link is in the first post in this thread. It should give you a lot of the "what to expect" information.

[Guest bigorangedog]

... for those of you who chose amp, how long was it before things were more or less back to the normal routine? At what point were you able to leave the dog alone while you were at work (with someone checking in mid-day or so)? What sort of assistance did your pup need and for how long?

 

Hi there,

I responded briefly in your other thread as well, but thought I'd try to answer the Qs you asked here.

 

My boys Apollo and Whitey were ages 9 and 11, respectively, at amputation. So their recovery times (especially the 11-yr-old) would likely be considerably longer than that of a healthy 4-yr-old. Whitey's brain had a hard time adjusting to there not being a leg there. It took him about a week to a week and a half to be dependably mobile on his own. About a month to be back to "normal." Apollo was mobile, but wobbly, the day after surgery. Actually, with Apollo, it was the post-surgery medications that gave us more trouble with mobility than the surgery itself. The opiates made him very loopy.

 

Anyway -- my guess would be that your girl would be able to get around on her own after a few days. Stairs will take longer, so if you have those, think about how you'll get around them (build a ramp?). If your husband can take 3-4 days off after she comes home, that ought to do it. That's what my husband did each time. (I work at home, but I am about 105 lbs and could not carry the dogs easily on my own if I had to.) After that, even with Whitey I was able to assist him on my own with a harness. Apollo never wanted ANY help from me. I kept a hand on the harness, in case he started to fall, but he did all the work on his own from the first day. Also, you do not need to bring her home from the surgery clinic right away if you are not comfortable with her level of mobility. (We brought our guys home quickly, but we felt equipped to handle them on our own.)

 

If you are leaving her alone for a few hrs or more at a time (which I would not do in the first 4-5 days if you can help it), confine her to an area where she cannot hurt herself. Put blankets around so that if she falls, she'll have a soft landing. And yes, if possible, check in with her midday.

 

You'll read on my blog (in my sig) about the "two weeks of hell" during which your girl will be adjusting to her new body, and will also be on a cocktail of meds. Some of the meds can cause distressing side effects (like panting and whining, even hallucinating), although they are probably most distressing for the human watching. That's the time when you question whether you did the right thing, and have tons of ups and downs. Things really do level out pretty quickly. I think you'll be amazed at how well she does on 3 legs. Even my 11-yr-old went back to digging holes one-armed before too long.

 

I only got 6 months with each of my boys (and we did chemo) before we had mets. But they were 6 awesome months, and they were not in pain until the last week or so before we let them go. If you poke around on the blog, you'll find some videos of my boys running around as tripawds. (You can probably also find them by searching GT for their names.)

 

Feel free to get in touch anytime if I can help. I don't check this thread a whole lot, so message me.