Any Ideas On Whats Causing These Fx"s

[Guest tysmom]

my poor senior boy has had two fx feet within three weeks of each other.

He just got out of the splint for the back foot on the left and its still causing him some trouble

when the front one ( the one with a previously amputated toe) fxed as well.

I'm of the opinion that the front one was weakened front the toe amputation and all the stress of the back fx

did that one in too. He was out of the splint and trotting with his sister and there was no indication anything was wrong

till he came back with his foot in the air and swollen.

Its probably my fault for not leash walking him but I thought it was safe at that point to just let him out in the yard.

 

The DR said this shouldn't be happening to him but offers me no reason either. He said are you sure he wasn't injured?

Im as sure as is possible. I mean I watch these guys like a hawk. My husband tells me I know how many steps it takes them to poop

for gods sake. He thinks Im obsessive as it is.

I feel like such a bad momma.

Should he be on some kind of supplement to help strengthen his bones? he's 7 years old now.

deb

[Guest Swifthounds]

Poor Buck. Poor you.

 

Remind me again which toes he had amputated? And then what was the time line for the fractured toes?

 

How's his weight? What's he eating?

 

While fractures can happen as a result of increased weight on "good" legs while another leg is injured, it seems like poor Buck is having more than his share of foot injuries. You're not a bad dog mom. He's fortunate to have you.

[duncan41]

FWIW: In general, I don't think we give these guys enough healing time for soft tissue injuries. I have one (6 years old) who sprained a toe in June while running in the yard. ( My three are normally walked in the neighborhood 4x a day for a total of about 3 miles - running in the yard is a treat, done one dog at a time, totally supervised.) She was leash walked for 8 weeks. Even though she had shown no outward signs of discomfort for about 4 weeks, the first time she ran in the yard - and I have a very small yard - she started limping again. She was again leash walked exclusively until last week when I allowed her to run in the yard. While she didn't limp, I could tell that she wasn't entirely comfortable. I will continue to leash walk her for another couple of months and try again.

[Guest tysmom]

Its been over a year ago jen that he had the toe on the left front amputated. He came to us with that toe, the second , malformed like it had been already broken. then that toe started to swell up

out of no where and needed to be amputated there was a cancer scare then but was ruled out with biopsy and so forth. No trouble since then after that healed just fine,

He's always been lame on that side because of the missing toe he had a limp.

 

Then three weeks ago or so we were camping for the final trip, we didnt know if he jumped up in the trailer and hurt the foot or it happened at home later. swelling happend and I knew it was fxed

xray, splint, three weeks, came off open areas all over needing treatment from the splint.

I let him out to pee and he came back hobbled on the front holding the leg up. I left him maybe 5 minutes.

 

his weight is good , he's eating well, taste of the wild bison with 32% protein no other concerns and for heavens sake he's doing well getting around when he has to poor boy is just pitiful.

deb

[Batmom]

What a rotten turn of luck. Maybe worth consulting an orthopedic specialist?

[macoduck]

I wonder if a blood calcium check would show anything.

 

This is something I routinely get checked after having gastric bypass surgery to make sure I am absorbing enough calcium in my diet.

I'm at the correct level but if I wasn't I'd have to up my calcium intake to ward off osteoporosis.

 

How this might relate to dogs I have no idea, but ya never know.

[Guest tysmom]

I was wondering that myself but have no idea about calcium and dogs.. and the vet hasn't suggested anything like it. I will ask tomorrow when we talk.

[Guest LindsaySF]

FWIW: In general, I don't think we give these guys enough healing time for soft tissue injuries. I have one (6 years old) who sprained a toe in June while running in the yard. ( My three are normally walked in the neighborhood 4x a day for a total of about 3 miles - running in the yard is a treat, done one dog at a time, totally supervised.) She was leash walked for 8 weeks. Even though she had shown no outward signs of discomfort for about 4 weeks, the first time she ran in the yard - and I have a very small yard - she started limping again. She was again leash walked exclusively until last week when I allowed her to run in the yard. While she didn't limp, I could tell that she wasn't entirely comfortable. I will continue to leash walk her for another couple of months and try again.

I agree with this. Three weeks of leash walking was likely not enough. I hope he gets better soon!

[Guest Swifthounds]

Soft tissue injuries do take longer to heal, which makes them harder to rehab than bone fractures, which heal rather quickly. Sprained or sprung toes not only can take weeks and weeks and weeks to heal, they're also quite painful for much of that time. Because the soft tissue doesn't repair to 100%, you also have the risk or re-injury being higher than with a fracture.

 

Three weeks is probably not long enough for a toe fracture to heal completely, but I've also never had to go to extreme measures with a toe fracture in a hound. If you look closely at most retired hounds' feet, you can easily spot the toes that have been fractured. I'll be forever indebted to a wonderfully helpful greyhound trainer and physical therapist for sharing that expertise. Blitzen had previously broken toes when he came to me having never made an official track. Shortly thereafter, he fractured a toe. I padded and wrapped the toes to keep the broken toe immobilized and it healed on its own. He was leash walked for a week or so and not allowed to run in the yard for a few more weeks, but it healed nicely on it's own.

 

I can't say I'm totally surprised at Buck's most recent fracture on the foot missing one of the weight bearing toes, as the remaining toes are under more strain while he was favoring the foot with the previous fracture. I'm personally not a fan of splinting for toes unless absolutely necessary because IME it makes them favor the injured foot more (putting more strain on the other feet) and it almost inevitably leads to pressure/bandage sores in hounds with their thin skin.

 

I'm probably more puzzled by the first fracture than the more recent one. Was that one a result of trauma or just a limp that developed one day? I also thought about blood calcium, but don't know that it would result in fx. Has he had bloodwork recently?

[mychip1]

No advice...just good thoughts!

[Guest tysmom]

Jen, we recently bought a fifth wheel travel trailer and the dogs have not had a very good time this summer trying to do the steps.

There are three steps but there higher than their used to.

The last time we went out for the season in October we thinks its possible he hit is foot going in but I cant swear to it

its the only thing that makes sense to me as the xray didnt show anything but a fx.

Anyway I wasnt very clear about the toe amputation. H e wasnt splinted for that's dealing with open sores from the splint on the back foot. WE

didn't splint the toe.

 

The biggest problem Im having now is his stubbornness. When we camp he goes to the Br fine on the leash. IN his own yard he

plainly refuses to go on leash. Im about ready to pull my hair out with him.

If I let him out on his own to pee he will attempt to run all the way in the back to go and I have a huge yard. My husband is saying im making too much of it he says he will go when he has to

but he doesn't!

I dont know what tto do with him.

deb

[Guest tysmom]

I forgot to add, yes he has major blood work done as part of the Uof P blood donor program. Its been under six month since the last blood work.

just cant rememeber when.

thanks for the good thoughts everyone.

deb

Edited November 27, 2010 by tysmom

[Guest tysmom]

its been a week and he refuses to go on leash.

Ive had to make the decision to let him go on his own.

you think I should wrap the back foot for added protection? I think because he has trouble with both feet on the same side he cant

walk on leash. Ive watched and observed. i think its much harder work for him to go slower, but then there is a risk that back foot is getting too much pressure and could re fx.

This is really so hard to navigate.

deb

[Guest Swifthounds]

Do you have a training leash on hand? They're styled like a regular leash but come in longer lengths (10,15 or more feet). Might be a good compromise. He wouldn't really feel on leash and yet wouldn't have the freedom to take off. I've used it for "shy pottiers" in the past.

[Guest tysmom]

Do you have a training leash on hand? They're styled like a regular leash but come in longer lengths (10,15 or more feet). Might be a good compromise. He wouldn't really feel on leash and yet wouldn't have the freedom to take off. I've used it for "shy pottiers" in the past.

 

I have a flexi which is the same principle that use for Ash. The problem is he look soo uncomfortable trying to walk on the leash going slow puts an added pressure on the legs and he

really strains to walk with two legs on the same side causing problems. He gets around better when he does it himself.

I'll try the flexi though.

you think should use some of that sports tape for extra support on the back leg? Ive been thinking about it.

deb

[Guest Swifthounds]

Are both the paws unwrapped now? A bit of vet wrap (or equivalent) might lend some support, though if it makes him favor the paws it might be more trouble as well.

 

When Blitzen fractured an inside toe (oddly enough the same toe that Comet's missing now) I put cotton between each of the toes, wrapped the foot in cotton sheeting (the thick kind ont he roll) and then wrapped with a bit of soft wrap material and then vet wrap. For outside potty I put some Glad Press n Seal over the bandage to keep it clean and dry.

[Guest tysmom]

Are both the paws unwrapped now? A bit of vet wrap (or equivalent) might lend some support, though if it makes him favor the paws it might be more trouble as well.

 

When Blitzen fractured an inside toe (oddly enough the same toe that Comet's missing now) I put cotton between each of the toes, wrapped the foot in cotton sheeting (the thick kind ont he roll) and then wrapped with a bit of soft wrap material and then vet wrap. For outside potty I put some Glad Press n Seal over the bandage to keep it clean and dry.

 

he just has the front one wrapped now. On Tuesday he will xray and then I guess put a hard splint on.

I asked him to keep it soft until the xray because of the wounds he gets from the hard sut there is no doubt it is broken. we are still trying to hel wounds on the back leg.

deb

[Guest tysmom]

Just got back from two hours in the vet office.We went for the xray today of Bucks front leg, and blood work.

I'll tell you its been a harrowing experience.

First trying to change his position on the xray table caused two scabbed area's on his back leg to open up causing blood

all over the place. I was right there doing most of the work so its nothing they did just the hard table.

They take him away an d he comes back with three legs wrapped up including a long splint on the front leg.

The vet keeps saying this just shouldn't be happening to him they look like pathological fx"s. Hs.e wants to do blood work and will call me tomorrow

with the result.

 

Mean time I take him to the truck. Not gone 5 minutes to pay the bill come back to carnage in the truck. There was blood everywhere, most of the splint wrapping was chewed off.

Ive never seen him do such fast work. Definitely done in anxiety reaction. I debated briefly taking him back in the ink wasn't dry on the three hundred and fifty dollar check i just wrote.

But I knew it looked worse then it was and I have all the stuff at home to fix it with so home we went . In 5 minutes he was cleaned up and good as new.

 

Still no answers are coming. Now I wait for the blood work. I asked him point blank about cancer. All he did was shrug his shoulders.

But will cancer manifest itself like this? in multiple bones? The xray 's show nothing but clean fx's.

 

I'll hold my self in check till after t he blood results tomorrow. But I am still incline to leans towards stress fx from the amputation on the front and the fx on the back.

Keeping all toes crossed for good news.

deb

[Guest greytbookert]

oh goodness, what an ordeal!

 

I hope they are able to find out what is causing him issues and are able to fix it!

[greyhead]

All toes here crossed with you!

[Guest Swifthounds]

[Guest tysmom]

Yesterday the blood work that the vet so thought was going to be bad came back pretty good it appears.

There are some questions about his thyroid that I am working on again today. He said he was going to do addtional

blood work on the thyroid with the blood they already had.

He said his calcium level is at the low end of normal.. anybody think that is worth supplementing??

 

I feel as though I am working a with my hands tied in some way with this Vet.

 

There are many reasons I dont think he is very grey savy which I dont need to get into, but with finaces and the economy he's way cheaper than most around here

and he lets us pay in payments.. Its a tough spot to be in but that's all I have right now.

 

I dont know if I am just wishful thinking or not but my original idea about this second one being a stres fx makes the most sense to me..

He's not convinced. But what can I do right now?

 

His idea that these might be pathological FX'x just isnt panning out.

I hope to have more on the thyroid issue today. He is checking in at .3 for the T4, which according to my blood work paperwork says is just slightly low.

A grey savvy friend of mine suggested more needs to be done on the thyroid panel so hope to have that today.

 

Even so... could a low thyroid stress the body enough to cause fx"s??

deb

[Guest Swifthounds]

I don't see how the thyroid being low would have caused the fx, but the fx and pain and stress can lower the thyroid. Forgot to mention earlier that thyroid T4 levels tend to be lower in male greyhounds as they become seniors.

 

I'm puzzled by the fx...

[racindog]

My holistic vet who is a miracle healer prescribed some symphytum 200C to me before among other things. She very successfully treated a leg fx in Slim also-and it healed and never gave him any problems. Might want to research it- might help and I don't think it could possibly hurt and its cheap to boot!

[Guest Swifthounds]

200C? That's an awfully high dose, even for just single application. 200C is oft called the "great aggravator" for good reason. That's not to say that that might not be the propery CH remedy, but you need someone who can take into account the whole of the dog and his symptoms before choosing a remedy.

 

IMO, way too many "homeopathic" or "holistic" vets just doling out dosages of remedies by rote and based on symptoms - which is not CH at all, merely CH remedies applied allopathically.