New Dog & Urinating In The House

[Guest Johnpilot]

Hello Everyone;

 

Last Friday I brought home a second rescue to the house. He is a 6 year old neutered male. Over the weekend my 9 year old female who I have had for over 2 years and he settled in and they get along really well. Sharing water bowls and sniffing and trotting around the house together, etc. I have a dog door and the female goes in and out like it is a turnstile at a mall. The male will watch her go in and out and then stare at it. I removed the metal at the base of the flap so the smallest effort moves it. He will go through it with some coaxing, and when I shut him outside he will eventually give up and come in using it. Also, if I call him he will come in through it pretty quickly.

 

Now the bad part. He will NOT go outside using it. I leave about 7:00 AM and came home at 4:30 for a couple straight days and found numerous "puddles". Yesterday I went home at 12:00 and there were no messes at all. I took him out and watched him do his thing and then setup my video camera and left leaving him outside. The yard is fenced and the weather is fine so he is safe. The film ran out at 2:00 but there were no issues and he came in after about an hour on his own. I come home at 4:30 and there were some puddles again... That is only about 4 1/2 hours so I can't believe he had to go that badly.

 

Then after a walk and a trip outside at 10:00 PM we are down for the night. He walks around and whimpers a little at about 4 and I tell him to go to his bed which he does. At 5:30 we are up and there is another puddle. Through all of this the female goes in and out with no problems.

 

I have tile floors and they have never been cleaner after the last week, Ha Ha, but I am getting frustrated. What to do? He must not be too bright. There is no mess on the furniture or any legs of tables that I could find. I do see him go by lifting his leg but he will also go without lifting as well (probably because he is neutered?) Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

John

[TheFullHouse]

A lot of male greys don't lift their legs to go, most will just stand there and go. I have several that do though. It's hard to say whether he's just marking or really has to go to the bathroom. The dog door still seems to be a challenge for him. It sounds like he is a little fearful and will only use it if he absolutely has to. Do you have a crate? It might be best putting him in a crate while you're gone. Chances are that he won't go in there and you can then let him out to go when you get home, at least until he has settled in and is used to using the dog door.

 

edited to add: Your boy has been on a regular schedule for going to the bathroom for several years which is why I suggest the crate. Although we as humans look at a crate as something awful to confine them, most greyhounds look at them as a safe place. You could better schedule his bathroom breaks with a crate until he is secure enough to figure out the dog door and realize he has the freedom to go when he wants.

Edited November 3, 2010 by JillysFullHouse

[Guest Johnpilot]

A lot of male greys don't lift their legs to go, most will just stand there and go. I have several that do though. It's hard to say whether he's just marking or really has to go to the bathroom. The dog door still seems to be a challenge for him. It sounds like he is a little fearful and will only use it if he absolutely has to. Do you have a crate? It might be best putting him in a crate while you're gone. Chances are that he won't go in there and you can then let him out to go when you get home, at least until he has settled in and is used to using the dog door.

 

edited to add: Your boy has been on a regular schedule for going to the bathroom for several years which is why I suggest the crate. Although we as humans look at a crate as something awful to confine them, most greyhounds look at them as a safe place. You could better schedule his bathroom breaks with a crate until he is secure enough to figure out the dog door and realize he has the freedom to go when he wants.

 

Thanks! I do worry about crating him up as I don't know if he has ever been in one since the track and the female is free and I don't want to freak him out seeing her roaming free.

 

John

[NeylasMom]

He must not be too bright.

It's not a question of his intelligence, he's simply not house trained. It sounds to me like you expect him to automatically know not to go in the house and how to use the dog door when in fact you actually need to teach him these things.

 

For starters, when in the house he needs to be confined when you cannot watch him like a hawk. I think a crate is ideal, but if you're not comfortable with that, you can use an x-pen or you can tether him to you so he needs to stay in your sight at all times. Free time is given only after he's had ample opportunity to empty out outside. For a male, simply turning him out into the yard may not be enough. You may need to walk him for 15 minutes or so so he can go multiple times, especially if he's a marker. Once he's done that, then he's earned some "free" time (although I would still supervise early on). After an hour or two of that, he either gets another trip outside, or he gets confined so he's not tempted to go in the house. In the meantime, every potty outside is rewarded - make a big deal out of it, jump up and down and scream like a girl if that will get his tail wagging, and make sure you give really yummy treats (use human food if his stomach can tolerate it). If he starts to go inside at some point, just grab his leash and get him outside as quickly as possible, then reward him for finishing his business outside. This has to happen constantly early on, try to leave no room for mistakes b/c relieving himself is in and of itself rewarding and will only make your job harder. When you are confident that he understands he needs to go outside, then you should start working on teaching him how to signal you that he needs to go out, and work on teaching him to use the dog door.

 

To teach the signal, pick something that you want him to use (preferably something he already does) and every time he does it, even if you think he doesn't need to go, take him outside. You'll have to do it on lead b/c this isn't playtime, this is potty time. Ask him to potty, then wait. If he goes, huge reward. If he doesn't, back inside until he gives you the behavior again. In your case, it sounds like your boy is already giving you a signal when he whines at 4 am so I'd pick that one. And btw, 4 am is the typical turnout time at the track so there's very little doubt in my mind that when he does that, it's because he needs to go so of course you're waking up to a puddle in the morning. If you want to sleep beyond that, take him out, leash on, business only, let him pee, then right back inside. You can gradually push that time back until it coincides with your wake up time.

 

I don't want to freak him out seeing her roaming free.

 

John

My female is free and my male is crated. I've also fostered about 50 dogs since I've had her, all crated - they don't care.

 

ETA: Unless the dog has SA, which is a totally different story. Then I might gate the free dog into the room with the crate for the time being. If you're going to try the crate, I would read up on how to make the crate a positive place and how to introduce him to it gradually so he doesn't freak out. The biggest mistake one can probably make is to only crate him when you're gone - it won't be long before he connects the dots and you have a dog that doesn't want to go in the crate anymore.

Edited November 3, 2010 by NeylasMom

[Guest Johnpilot]

He must not be too bright.

It's not a question of his intelligence, he's simply not house trained. It sounds to me like you expect him to automatically know not to go in the house and how to use the dog door when in fact you actually need to teach him these things.

 

For starters, when in the house he needs to be confined when you cannot watch him like a hawk. I think a crate is ideal, but if you're not comfortable with that, you can use an x-pen or you can tether him to you so he needs to stay in your sight at all times. Free time is given only after he's had ample opportunity to empty out outside. For a male, simply turning him out into the yard may not be enough. You may need to walk him for 15 minutes or so so he can go multiple times, especially if he's a marker. Once he's done that, then he's earned some "free" time (although I would still supervise early on). After an hour or two of that, he either gets another trip outside, or he gets confined so he's not tempted to go in the house. In the meantime, every potty outside is rewarded - make a big deal out of it, jump up and down and scream like a girl if that will get his tail wagging, and make sure you give really yummy treats (use human food if his stomach can tolerate it). If he starts to go inside at some point, just grab his leash and get him outside as quickly as possible, then reward him for finishing his business outside. This has to happen constantly early on, try to leave no room for mistakes b/c relieving himself is in and of itself rewarding and will only make your job harder. When you are confident that he understands he needs to go outside, then you should start working on teaching him how to signal you that he needs to go out, and work on teaching him to use the dog door.

 

To teach the signal, pick something that you want him to use (preferably something he already does) and every time he does it, even if you think he doesn't need to go, take him outside. You'll have to do it on lead b/c this isn't playtime, this is potty time. Ask him to potty, then wait. If he goes, huge reward. If he doesn't, back inside until he gives you the behavior again. In your case, it sounds like your boy is already giving you a signal when he whines at 4 am so I'd pick that one. And btw, 4 am is the typical turnout time at the track so there's very little doubt in my mind that when he does that, it's because he needs to go so of course you're waking up to a puddle in the morning. If you want to sleep beyond that, take him out, leash on, business only, let him pee, then right back inside. You can gradually push that time back until it coincides with your wake up time.

 

I don't want to freak him out seeing her roaming free.

 

John

My female is free and my male is crated. I've also fostered about 50 dogs since I've had her, all crated - they don't care.

 

ETA: Unless the dog has SA, which is a totally different story. Then I might gate the free dog into the room with the crate for the time being. If you're going to try the crate, I would read up on how to make the crate a positive place and how to introduce him to it gradually so he doesn't freak out. The biggest mistake one can probably make is to only crate him when you're gone - it won't be long before he connects the dots and you have a dog that doesn't want to go in the crate anymore.

 

Sorry, my comment about his intelligence was tongue-in-cheek. He was actually previously adopted, then returned and fostered, so he was house trained. Sorry if I did not make that part clear. That is why I was a bit surprised as the foster Mom had none of these issues except that she did not have a dog door.

 

My video showed no barking or howling or other chewing as there is lots of stuff to pick up so I don't think it is that kind of anxiety.

 

john

[NeylasMom]

 

Sorry, my comment about his intelligence was tongue-in-cheek. He was actually previously adopted, then returned and fostered, so he was house trained. Sorry if I did not make that part clear. That is why I was a bit surprised as the foster Mom had none of these issues except that she did not have a dog door.

 

My video showed no barking or howling or other chewing as there is lots of stuff to pick up so I don't think it is that kind of anxiety.

 

john

Gotcha'. I would still treat him like he's fresh off the track and go back to house training 101. Dogs don't always generalize well. And I do think the dog door can be tough for some dogs to learn so I would probably focus on getting the house training down pat, then worry about the dog door (not that you can't be working on getting him comfortable with it in the meantime, I just mean I wouldn't rely on it in anyway just yet). Can someone stop by mid-day to let him out just until you get things ironed out. I wouldn't expect it would take you too long if he were previously house trained.

 

I might also ask the foster mom what his schedule was with her if you haven't already and see if you can duplicate that as closely as possible, then gradually switch to your own schedule. By that I mean amounts/type/times of exercise and also where he was left when she wasn't home, etc.

 

Regarding the dog door, I might also take a slightly different approach to training him to go through it. I wouldn't encourage, lure, coax, anything like that. I'd just leave it open and anytime he goes through on his own, I would immediately make a HUGE deal out of it and toss handfuls of treats at him. My guess is he's afraid of it and often trying to force the issue when the dog is afraid makes it worse. If he never goes through on his own, you could use a clicker to shape the behavior. So anytime he goes near it or moves toward it (even if that's not where he's ultimately going), click and treat. Do this repeatedly until the light bulb starts to go off that moving in that direction gets a click/treat. Then only click/treat when he gets a bit closer than he has been previously and continue like that, gradually increasing criteria. Once he's going all the way to the door, then he starts getting clicked for touching the door in any way and so on. It sounds like a lot of work, but it's really not too difficult as long as you can keep it fun for him by keeping it short and making sure you don't raise your criteria too quickly. Dogs do tend to learn faster when you use a marker like a clicker as well.

 

Sorry if that's getting a bit technical. I have a dog who's really outgoing, but a bit weird about going over or in between things. This presented a problem in our flyball classes when we started working on the hurdles, which involved going in between 2 poles and over another at the same time. I quickly learned that he learned much better if I tried to shape the behavior rather than lure him with food or my voice.

 

Of course, after having said all of this, you said he will come through if you call him so maybe just doing short sessions where you call him back and forth and reward each time will be sufficient. I guess it would depend on whether he comes reluctantly when you call or happily. If the latter, go that route, if the former, consider the clicker?

 

Good luck.

[Guest Johnpilot]

 

Sorry, my comment about his intelligence was tongue-in-cheek. He was actually previously adopted, then returned and fostered, so he was house trained. Sorry if I did not make that part clear. That is why I was a bit surprised as the foster Mom had none of these issues except that she did not have a dog door.

 

My video showed no barking or howling or other chewing as there is lots of stuff to pick up so I don't think it is that kind of anxiety.

 

john

Gotcha'. I would still treat him like he's fresh off the track and go back to house training 101. Dogs don't always generalize well. And I do think the dog door can be tough for some dogs to learn so I would probably focus on getting the house training down pat, then worry about the dog door (not that you can't be working on getting him comfortable with it in the meantime, I just mean I wouldn't rely on it in anyway just yet). Can someone stop by mid-day to let him out just until you get things ironed out. I wouldn't expect it would take you too long if he were previously house trained.

 

I might also ask the foster mom what his schedule was with her if you haven't already and see if you can duplicate that as closely as possible, then gradually switch to your own schedule. By that I mean amounts/type/times of exercise and also where he was left when she wasn't home, etc.

 

Regarding the dog door, I might also take a slightly different approach to training him to go through it. I wouldn't encourage, lure, coax, anything like that. I'd just leave it open and anytime he goes through on his own, I would immediately make a HUGE deal out of it and toss handfuls of treats at him. My guess is he's afraid of it and often trying to force the issue when the dog is afraid makes it worse. If he never goes through on his own, you could use a clicker to shape the behavior. So anytime he goes near it or moves toward it (even if that's not where he's ultimately going), click and treat. Do this repeatedly until the light bulb starts to go off that moving in that direction gets a click/treat. Then only click/treat when he gets a bit closer than he has been previously and continue like that, gradually increasing criteria. Once he's going all the way to the door, then he starts getting clicked for touching the door in any way and so on. It sounds like a lot of work, but it's really not too difficult as long as you can keep it fun for him by keeping it short and making sure you don't raise your criteria too quickly. Dogs do tend to learn faster when you use a marker like a clicker as well.

 

Sorry if that's getting a bit technical. I have a dog who's really outgoing, but a bit weird about going over or in between things. This presented a problem in our flyball classes when we started working on the hurdles, which involved going in between 2 poles and over another at the same time. I quickly learned that he learned much better if I tried to shape the behavior rather than lure him with food or my voice.

 

Of course, after having said all of this, you said he will come through if you call him so maybe just doing short sessions where you call him back and forth and reward each time will be sufficient. I guess it would depend on whether he comes reluctantly when you call or happily. If the latter, go that route, if the former, consider the clicker?

 

Good luck.

 

Great info. One of my other friends (greyhound owners) said it could be the female marking her territory? I never thought or that. I suppose that would complicate things. IF it is that, does that kind of thing slowly go away or how do you all deal with that?

 

Geez, I guess I should have taken that neonatal class. Ha Ha.

[NeylasMom]

 

Great info. One of my other friends (greyhound owners) said it could be the female marking her territory? I never thought or that. I suppose that would complicate things. IF it is that, does that kind of thing slowly go away or how do you all deal with that?

 

Geez, I guess I should have taken that neonatal class. Ha Ha.

That would surprise me, especially given what you've described about the 4 am wake up call, although it's not impossible. Best thing to do is keep him with you/under supervision so you can figure it out. At night, I would close him in your bedroom with you if you're not already doing that.

[Guest Johnpilot]

 

Great info. One of my other friends (greyhound owners) said it could be the female marking her territory? I never thought or that. I suppose that would complicate things. IF it is that, does that kind of thing slowly go away or how do you all deal with that?

 

Geez, I guess I should have taken that neonatal class. Ha Ha.

That would surprise me, especially given what you've described about the 4 am wake up call, although it's not impossible. Best thing to do is keep him with you/under supervision so you can figure it out. At night, I would close him in your bedroom with you if you're not already doing that.

 

Great advice! Putting him in the bedroom worked like a charm. No fussing and sleeping through the night. Still one "mess" a day, but I think it is a marking thing as I give them both toys and shirts and the like and I come home and find most of the stuff on the female's bed. I think she is poaching his stuff and it must be making him a bit annoyed and he marks. Hopefully that will go away. I did post a new thread about the dog door, so if anyone has any thoughts let me know.

 

Thanks to all.

 

John