Lp

[Guest greytfulhounds]

My Hunter is 12 years old & has laryngeal paralysis. When first diagnosed my vet explained that the surgery was risky & felt that post surgery there were risks. She had read where there had been some success with LP dogs using a human medication called Doxepin. Doxepin is an antidepressant with anithistamine properties. The antidepressant helps to keep the dog calm & the antihistamine helps the condition, especially when there is a lot of humidity.

 

Hunter has done fairly well using the medication twice a day. We had a terribly hot & humid summer & we got through it "OK".

 

Hunter is now getting worse with his breathing & last night had me up several times throwing up. My vet recently the dosage of the Doxepin.....he started at 75mg twice a day & is now at 100mg twice a day. I guess I am just starting to lose hope that the Doxepin is going to continue to help.

 

I am thinking more seriously of having the tie-back surgery done. I would love to hear good & bad from any of you that have had the procedure so that I can look at the whole picture while making this decision.

 

Thank you for any help you are able to offer!

Edited October 31, 2010 by greytfulhounds

[Guest vahoundlover]

You have had so much on your plate lately My thoughts and prayers are with you as you seek out what is best to do by your heart fella, Hunter

Edited October 31, 2010 by vahoundlover

[sweetdogs]

So interesting that this is the 2nd topic on LP this weekend & that my own 13 1/2 yo is having some increased difficulties with his LP at the moment too. Wonder if it's the change of seasons? Faolin has had it for almost 3 years & has been on doxepin for 1 1/2 years. He's had 2 scary episodes in the past 3 weeks & I'm looking into surgery myself. I always hoped I'd never need to but the alternative is not something I can bear. I've joined 2 LP groups on yahoo - they have lots of info in their files/links sections. I also searched this forum (Health & Medical) for old posts.

 

I wish you good luck with Hunter. There are some amazingly good outcomes out there & I hope our boys will be among them.

[kamsmom]

Oh Sherry, I'm so sorry that Hunter is having a hard time. I have absolutely zero experience with LP but Aimee does (Zoomdoggy). You might try pming her and see what she has to offer.

[Guest MnMDogs]

I'm interested to hear as well, since Mork seems to be getting worse. I'm sorry that you're going through this...it's really frightening to hear them when they're struggling to breathe. Fortunately, he seems ok unless in stressful situations, or over-exerting himself. I hope you get some good info for your Hunter.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

So interesting that this is the 2nd topic on LP this weekend & that my own 13 1/2 yo is having some increased difficulties with his LP at the moment too. Wonder if it's the change of seasons? Faolin has had it for almost 3 years & has been on doxepin for 1 1/2 years. He's had 2 scary episodes in the past 3 weeks & I'm looking into surgery myself. I always hoped I'd never need to but the alternative is not something I can bear. I've joined 2 LP groups on yahoo - they have lots of info in their files/links sections. I also searched this forum (Health & Medical) for old posts.

 

I wish you good luck with Hunter. There are some amazingly good outcomes out there & I hope our boys will be among them.

 

That is interesting because we have had some very weird weather in the last two weeks. I have had to put the air conditioner on for a couple of days & now the heat is back on at night. Maybe it is the change of season but he sure has been struggling!

 

Although, I just spoke to my mom yesterday & her 12 year old greyhound is being sent for a scope because her vet suspects LP too. They live in Florida.

 

We had a very scary episode about 3 weeks ago. I took him to the vet for a check up & on the way to the vet he must not have been able to catch his breath & from that he went into an anxiety attack. We got to the vet & none of us could calm him down. His temperature shot up to 107 degrees, he was pacing, his back end was giving out, his breathing was terrible. We all tried to calm him....the vet injectd B12 at the acupressure points, rubbed his feet with alcohol & finally had to inject him with a sedative. Took the vet tech & myself well over an hour rubbing him down with ice packs to get his body temperature back to normal.

 

It was after this that the vet increased his Doxepin but I am scared to death to take him out like that again. Have even been looking into a vet to come out to the house for him. He seemed to be doing okay on the increased dose & then last night woke me up throwing up. Could be something completely separate but I am just really worried. I lost one of my other hounds to osteo just a week ago & can not bear to lose him too.

 

So, have been giving more thought to the surgery before he gets too old that maybe he would not be a candidate. I would love the links to the LP groups you belong too. I did join one on Yahoo but have not yet posted......just received my first couple of digests.

 

Please keep in touch & let me know how you make out with your baby. ((((HUGS)))) to you both!

 

Oh Sherry, I'm so sorry that Hunter is having a hard time. I have absolutely zero experience with LP but Aimee does (Zoomdoggy). You might try pming her and see what she has to offer.

 

Thanks, Beth, I will do that!

 

I'm interested to hear as well, since Mork seems to be getting worse. I'm sorry that you're going through this...it's really frightening to hear them when they're struggling to breathe. Fortunately, he seems ok unless in stressful situations, or over-exerting himself. I hope you get some good info for your Hunter.

 

I will share anything I learn. Keeping your Mork in my thoughts & prayers too.

[Guest LoveSeniorGreys]

I've had 2 grey girls with LP. Never opted for surgery due to their advanced ages (13 & 14 yrs). It seems worse under stessful times and hot/humid summers. My house is pretty calm and I think that helped them too.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

I've had 2 grey girls with LP. Never opted for surgery due to their advanced ages (13 & 14 yrs). It seems worse under stessful times and hot/humid summers. My house is pretty calm and I think that helped them too.

 

Yes, same with Hunter these days......stress & humidity. My house, for the most part, is pretty calm too.....just me & the hounds....but, I have a total of 6 dogs (5 greyhounds)......still, pretty calm, though.

 

Are your girls still with us? It sounded above like maybe not. If not, was it the LP that took them? How long after diagnosis?

 

Hunter is my first greyhound & my heart....I would give anything to keep him from suffering.....just not so sure surgery is the answer.

[sweetdogs]

I would love the links to the LP groups you belong too. I did join one on Yahoo but have not yet posted......just received my first couple of digests.

This is the main group: LP and this is another one: LP Alternatives. I was especially interested in the second one because they mentioned surgeries other than a traditional tie-back. (My vet says might as well do a unilateral if we're going to operate at all.) I posted a few days ago but haven't gotten any responses.

 

I'm sorry Hunter gets so upset at the vets - what a scary time. Faolin used to love going to the vet but now he shakes & tries to hide in a corner. And it's taken him 2 days to get over his last visit. So hard to know what to do with this condition.

 

 

[Guest LoveSeniorGreys]

I've had 2 grey girls with LP. Never opted for surgery due to their advanced ages (13 & 14 yrs). It seems worse under stessful times and hot/humid summers. My house is pretty calm and I think that helped them too.

 

Yes, same with Hunter these days......stress & humidity. My house, for the most part, is pretty calm too.....just me & the hounds....but, I have a total of 6 dogs (5 greyhounds)......still, pretty calm, though.

 

Are your girls still with us? It sounded above like maybe not. If not, was it the LP that took them? How long after diagnosis?

 

Hunter is my first greyhound & my heart....I would give anything to keep him from suffering.....just not so sure surgery is the answer.

 

My 14 yr old girl crossed the bridge in Feb at the age of 15(with our help) due to several health issues, not only due to the LP. My 13 yr old girl is still doing very well otherwise. They both lived pretty well with LP and no surgery (in my opinion).

[3DogNite]

My old Gal, Darbee-doo, now running at the bridge, had the LP tieback surgery when she was 12 yrs old. She did VERY well and lived another 2 years, her departure having nothing to do with the LP.

 

Her recovery was scary for me (i was overly worried) and I think a little painful for her. but she got thru it without any complications. She never had any issues after the surgery, and was a happy, old lady right up to the very end. I miss her so much!

 

I went to my trusted vet, who had done this surgery several times but who is not board certified. When I did research, I heard so much about "board certified surgeons" that i was nervous, but i went with my gut, and was soooo happy that i did.

 

Good Luck!

[mangos_mom]

No advice to offer, but sending

[mychip1]

Sorry....no advice, but many prayers...

 

 

[Madeara]

I had it done on Darius when he was 13. Relief is immediate, he lived to 15. Just make sure you have a skilled surgeon who has done this many times before (board certified) Read about post feeding and care. They learn to eat fine afterward.

 

I would do it again if I had another dog with LP

Edited November 1, 2010 by Madeara

[Guest greytfulhounds]

I've had 2 grey girls with LP. Never opted for surgery due to their advanced ages (13 & 14 yrs). It seems worse under stessful times and hot/humid summers. My house is pretty calm and I think that helped them too.

 

Yes, same with Hunter these days......stress & humidity. My house, for the most part, is pretty calm too.....just me & the hounds....but, I have a total of 6 dogs (5 greyhounds)......still, pretty calm, though.

 

Are your girls still with us? It sounded above like maybe not. If not, was it the LP that took them? How long after diagnosis?

 

Hunter is my first greyhound & my heart....I would give anything to keep him from suffering.....just not so sure surgery is the answer.

 

My 14 yr old girl crossed the bridge in Feb at the age of 15(with our help) due to several health issues, not only due to the LP. My 13 yr old girl is still doing very well otherwise. They both lived pretty well with LP and no surgery (in my opinion).

 

I am sorry about your 15 year old. Did you do anything non surgical as far as a treatment?

 

My old Gal, Darbee-doo, now running at the bridge, had the LP tieback surgery when she was 12 yrs old. She did VERY well and lived another 2 years, her departure having nothing to do with the LP.

 

Her recovery was scary for me (i was overly worried) and I think a little painful for her. but she got thru it without any complications. She never had any issues after the surgery, and was a happy, old lady right up to the very end. I miss her so much!

 

I went to my trusted vet, who had done this surgery several times but who is not board certified. When I did research, I heard so much about "board certified surgeons" that i was nervous, but i went with my gut, and was soooo happy that i did.

 

Good Luck!

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am sorry to hear about your girl but it sounds like she lived a good & long life. With the surgery, did you have one side done or both?

 

I would love the links to the LP groups you belong too. I did join one on Yahoo but have not yet posted......just received my first couple of digests.

This is the main group: LP and this is another one: LP Alternatives. I was especially interested in the second one because they mentioned surgeries other than a traditional tie-back. (My vet says might as well do a unilateral if we're going to operate at all.) I posted a few days ago but haven't gotten any responses.

 

I'm sorry Hunter gets so upset at the vets - what a scary time. Faolin used to love going to the vet but now he shakes & tries to hide in a corner. And it's taken him 2 days to get over his last visit. So hard to know what to do with this condition.

 

THANK YOU so much for the links! I know what you mean, I am struggling to make the right decision. Keeping you & your Faolin in my thoughts.

 

No advice to offer, but sending

 

Thanks, Kate!

 

Sorry....no advice, but many prayers...

 

Thank you.

[3DogNite]

My vet tied back only one side, but said he took out the "voice box" so she wasn't able to bark or whine ever again. He said it made for a bigger opening without having the complications of having both sides tied back. She was always a pretty quiet girl so we (she) never missed it.

 

I would opt for surgery if 1, you can afford it. seemed like a lot of $$, but worth it to have my girl with me for the next two years. and 2, if Hunter's health is otherwise good! the benefits of knowing your dog is getting enough air, able to freely breath, and seeing them smile and enjoy life IS worth it!! yes, Darbee was a smiler!

 

I would add one thing,, look into getting Hunter a harness. We never put Darbee in a collar again. she had several beautiful necklaces for fun,, but she was in a harness the last couple years due to the limited air intake, then after the surgery we didn't want to chance hurting her throat.

 

for Hunter

good luck!

[MP_the4pack]

Onyx was 11 when she had the tie back done. She's now 15 and doing fine.

 

She was actually discharged the same day.

 

The things that she has to be careful of post tieback are:

 

No crunchy food (like dry kibble or milkbones) because of the possibility of aspirate pneumonia

Pepcid daily, to help prevent vomiting for the same reason above

No over heating in summer

Remain intubated to the last possible minute before waking up from having other surgeries.

 

They performed the surgery from the side of the neck and tied back the left side only. She has lost her voice because of the surgery, but it was already going.

 

If I suspected she aspirated anything we go immediately to the vets and they put her on antibiotics.

But she's done terrific. She still trots around on her daily walks.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

My vet tied back only one side, but said he took out the "voice box" so she wasn't able to bark or whine ever again. He said it made for a bigger opening without having the complications of having both sides tied back. She was always a pretty quiet girl so we (she) never missed it.

 

I would opt for surgery if 1, you can afford it. seemed like a lot of $$, but worth it to have my girl with me for the next two years. and 2, if Hunter's health is otherwise good! the benefits of knowing your dog is getting enough air, able to freely breath, and seeing them smile and enjoy life IS worth it!! yes, Darbee was a smiler!

 

I would add one thing,, look into getting Hunter a harness. We never put Darbee in a collar again. she had several beautiful necklaces for fun,, but she was in a harness the last couple years due to the limited air intake, then after the surgery we didn't want to chance hurting her throat.

 

for Hunter

good luck!

 

Thank you for the info! I do have a harness for Hunter & I stopped even using his tag collar that he wore in the house for that reason.

 

Onyx was 11 when she had the tie back done. She's now 15 and doing fine.

 

She was actually discharged the same day.

 

The things that she has to be careful of post tieback are:

 

No crunchy food (like dry kibble or milkbones) because of the possibility of aspirate pneumonia

Pepcid daily, to help prevent vomiting for the same reason above

No over heating in summer

Remain intubated to the last possible minute before waking up from having other surgeries.

 

They performed the surgery from the side of the neck and tied back the left side only. She has lost her voice because of the surgery, but it was already going.

 

If I suspected she aspirated anything we go immediately to the vets and they put her on antibiotics.

But she's done terrific. She still trots around on her daily walks.

 

 

WOW, your results have been great! Thank you for all of the information! So, if you do not feed dry, what do you feed? Just wet or raw or special recipe? I had thought that if I could not feed him dry that I might be able to use something like Honest Kitchen which is a dehydrated raw?

Edited November 1, 2010 by greytfulhounds

[3DogNite]

Darbee ate kibble right up to the end. It was only right after surgery that i gave her all the 'fat balls' she could eat. basically raw hamburger mixed with raw eggs, and other stuff mixed into a ball that she could swallow whole and it was easily digestible. i put her med's in the 'ball' and she would just gobble them up!

 

Darbee's surgery was from the front of her neck. so the vet must have that option.

 

Only once or twice did Darbee regurgitate (throw-up) digested food, or just eaten food. I never worried about it. I just watched for issues, and they never bothered her. I'm sure we were very lucky with all that. She never needed pepcid either. all dogs are alittle different

 

And,, Darbee was discharged the same day too! better care from Mom than from even the 24hr care at the vet!

[MP_the4pack]

 

WOW, your results have been great! Thank you for all of the information! So, if you do not feed dry, what do you feed? Just wet or raw or special recipe? I had thought that if I could not feed him dry that I might be able to use something like Honest Kitchen which is a dehydrated raw?

 

She gets high quality canned.(I vary it for variety) Or spaghetti, or chicken pot pie, or whatever she dang well wants!

 

The dentist actually said canned was better for them. I always thought dry was. She still has half her teeth.

[ZoomDoggy]

I sent this to the OP as a response to her PM, but am re-posting it here in case my experience could be helpful to anyone else reading this thread...

 

Re: Laryngeal Paralysis... My Chancy had it. She came to me as a senior (bounce), so I really don't know when she first started showing signs of LP. She already had a raspy hoarse bark when I got her. I had her for almost exactly two years. The hoarse bark progressed slowly to no real voice at all, and as time went on, she panted more and more. Once I figured out that she had LP, based on my own reading, I knew to keep her as stress-free and cool as possible. We kept the AC set quite low in the summer just for her, and only walked her slowly when it was cool outside. Those were the only real measures we took before the tieback surgery.

 

When it had progressed to the point where she was wheezing horribly even with the slightest exertion, we had to decide whether to proceed with the tieback surgery, or wait until she had a real breathing crisis and then be forced to let her go. I couldn't allow that to happen when I knew the surgery could give her a shot at being comfortable again, for whatever time she had left. So at age 12, she had a unilateral tieback. It was a huge success, despite all my fears. She healed well, and was able to breathe SO much more easily.

 

One thing I will say, is that to definitively diagnose LP, the dog must be anesthetized and scoped. In my opinion, I would only do that if I were already committed to the idea of doing the tieback surgery (assuming the scope was conclusive). That way, they can scope, confirm, and do the tieback all under a single anesthesia session. It took some doing for me to talk my vet into this, as he'd never done this before. Thankfully he referred me to a veterinary surgeon who had. My vet (whom I do trust very much) assisted the surgeon, so I felt confident Chancy was in good hands.

 

We had to change the way she ate after the tieback-- no crumbly foods, no dry kibble, basically nothing that she might accidentally inhale. Soft moist food. The biggest risk after tieback surgery is pneumonia caused by aspiration of fluids or food, because the airway is tied permanently open.

 

If the dog is prone to vomiting (as you know, some dogs just barf more often than others), the risk of aspirating foreign material into the lungs is MUCH greater. I would not do a tieback for a dog who is a known puker.

 

Chancy was not a puker, thankfully.

 

My only regret in the surgery was that I hadn't done it sooner. I was so scared because of her age and the risks of not only the anesthesia, but the tieback itself. But constantly wheezing like that was no way to live either. Had I known how much relief she would get, I'd have done it a year earlier.

 

As it turned out, shortly after the surgery, Chancy had other health complications. A series of them, and we never were able to get her health back on track. She died about a month after her tieback surgery. The cause of her decline was not LP, but I will say that on her final day, she did vomit and aspirated some into her lungs. That was the end. In her state, there was no way she'd recover from treatment of pneumonia on top of the rest of her ailments.

 

I'm not saying that to scare you. Just sharing an experience which may ultimately be a factor in your decision. Had she not aspirated the vomit, it's possible she might have had a few more days, or more. Or maybe not. We'll never know.

 

I really truly only wished I had done the tieback sooner, so her final summer wouldn't have been soooo difficult for her.

 

 

I hope you find my experience helpful in some way. It's a frightening decision to make for any dog, let alone a senior. I wish you luck in whatever path you choose for your boy.

 

 

... last night had me up several times throwing up...

 

The above quote is the only thing I see that would give me pause about considering the surgery. If puking is not uncommon for your boy, I'd not risk a tieback.

[Madeara]

Darbee ate kibble right up to the end. It was only right after surgery that i gave her all the 'fat balls' she could eat. basically raw hamburger mixed with raw eggs, and other stuff mixed into a ball that she could swallow whole and it was easily digestible. i put her med's in the 'ball' and she would just gobble them up!

 

 

YUP I made my own "meat" balls with ground kibble.

 

I joined a Yahoo LP board that gave me all the knowledge and insight for this condition

[Guest greytfulhounds]

I sent this to the OP as a response to her PM, but am re-posting it here in case my experience could be helpful to anyone else reading this thread...

 

Re: Laryngeal Paralysis... My Chancy had it. She came to me as a senior (bounce), so I really don't know when she first started showing signs of LP. She already had a raspy hoarse bark when I got her. I had her for almost exactly two years. The hoarse bark progressed slowly to no real voice at all, and as time went on, she panted more and more. Once I figured out that she had LP, based on my own reading, I knew to keep her as stress-free and cool as possible. We kept the AC set quite low in the summer just for her, and only walked her slowly when it was cool outside. Those were the only real measures we took before the tieback surgery.

 

When it had progressed to the point where she was wheezing horribly even with the slightest exertion, we had to decide whether to proceed with the tieback surgery, or wait until she had a real breathing crisis and then be forced to let her go. I couldn't allow that to happen when I knew the surgery could give her a shot at being comfortable again, for whatever time she had left. So at age 12, she had a unilateral tieback. It was a huge success, despite all my fears. She healed well, and was able to breathe SO much more easily.

 

One thing I will say, is that to definitively diagnose LP, the dog must be anesthetized and scoped. In my opinion, I would only do that if I were already committed to the idea of doing the tieback surgery (assuming the scope was conclusive). That way, they can scope, confirm, and do the tieback all under a single anesthesia session. It took some doing for me to talk my vet into this, as he'd never done this before. Thankfully he referred me to a veterinary surgeon who had. My vet (whom I do trust very much) assisted the surgeon, so I felt confident Chancy was in good hands.

 

We had to change the way she ate after the tieback-- no crumbly foods, no dry kibble, basically nothing that she might accidentally inhale. Soft moist food. The biggest risk after tieback surgery is pneumonia caused by aspiration of fluids or food, because the airway is tied permanently open.

 

If the dog is prone to vomiting (as you know, some dogs just barf more often than others), the risk of aspirating foreign material into the lungs is MUCH greater. I would not do a tieback for a dog who is a known puker.

 

Chancy was not a puker, thankfully.

 

My only regret in the surgery was that I hadn't done it sooner. I was so scared because of her age and the risks of not only the anesthesia, but the tieback itself. But constantly wheezing like that was no way to live either. Had I known how much relief she would get, I'd have done it a year earlier.

 

As it turned out, shortly after the surgery, Chancy had other health complications. A series of them, and we never were able to get her health back on track. She died about a month after her tieback surgery. The cause of her decline was not LP, but I will say that on her final day, she did vomit and aspirated some into her lungs. That was the end. In her state, there was no way she'd recover from treatment of pneumonia on top of the rest of her ailments.

 

I'm not saying that to scare you. Just sharing an experience which may ultimately be a factor in your decision. Had she not aspirated the vomit, it's possible she might have had a few more days, or more. Or maybe not. We'll never know.

 

I really truly only wished I had done the tieback sooner, so her final summer wouldn't have been soooo difficult for her.

 

 

I hope you find my experience helpful in some way. It's a frightening decision to make for any dog, let alone a senior. I wish you luck in whatever path you choose for your boy.

 

 

... last night had me up several times throwing up...

 

The above quote is the only thing I see that would give me pause about considering the surgery. If puking is not uncommon for your boy, I'd not risk a tieback.

 

Thanks for posting this here, Aimee! No, Hunter does not usually puke. He was having a really bad breathing night & am not sure if that brought it on but he puked several times. I have been sleeping on the sofa to be with him at night & we have been okay since that incident.

 

Hunter has a consultation with a surgeon on Monday. Thank you, Mary Pat for the recommendation! Keep your fingers crossed that we get there without another anxiety attack.

[brandimom]

My only experience was in 1996 when I got my first grey. My vet said it was allergies and she was also being treated for mange. Long story short I took her to CA to see a dermatologist for the mange. While visiting with this vet he said she had LP and suggested the tie back. About an hour drive from my home in Nevada. While driving back home she had a terrible episode with the LP and there was nothing I could do until I got home to Nevada, the nearest vet. By that time it was too late when I got her into ER. I lost her the next day. If I had to do it over again and know what I know now I probably would have had the tie back. I was so "grey green" back then and so "dumb". I know it is a very personal decision but that would have been my decision. Hope this piece of information helps you.

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

I don't know if this is helpful but we had a Lab who had the tieback done when he was about 11. This was several years ago. Prior to doing that he would just stop breathing. His sides would suck in deep into his ribs while he struggled for breath. He always came out of it but it was getting worse and was taking a toll on him. We had the surgery and it went really well. We were cautioned about his asperating food into his lungs so we put a large rock in his food bowl to slow him down (no cute bowls with the "rocks" built in back then). He lived to be 15 and he had pneumonia only once. The surgery was truly a life saver. Still tremendously scary to do but it worked really really well for us.