Perpetual Puking (Non-Grey)

[Guest savvyprchick]

Skah, our Great Pyrenees, has been throwing up off on and since he was about a year old. He'll go days where he throws everything up. Then he'll go 3 weeks or 3 months without throwing up at all. We've had him into the vet and tested for parasites, tested for everything they could think of... and nothing.

 

We've tried all sorts of food and eliminated nearly everything. We finally found one that we thought worked... Acana Pacifica.

 

He went three months without throwing up. Threw up three times last week. And the just threw up again. Most of the time, I swear he throws up only when I'm not home (so it took a while to figure out what dog is definitely doing it). Tonight, he threw up what looks to be nearly his entire meal... 11 hours after he ate. And the kibble is pretty much completely formed, although mushy (apparently, he doesn't swallow his kibble even though I do HEAR him crunching it).

 

Am I wrong in thinking that this food should have been digested by now? I kept a sample for the vet tomorrow, but I would have thought that after 11 hours, he wouldn't have much of anything left in his stomach. I'm wondering if maybe he has something wrong with his digestive organs.

 

ETA: After he pukes once, he's fine. Happy. Ready to play. Never looking sick.

 

**Monday, October 26**

 

So yesterday I was told the estimate for Skah would be $263, which would be for his 2 xrays, his fecal exam and a mini Senior panel (even though he's only 2 1/2... just to rule things out). This morning, when I went to drop him off, they said they forgot to tell me about the 1/2 day hospital stay fee and there would be extra fees if he needed medications. I asked how much that would be and they said the hospital fee would be $35. I asked what medications they though he'd need... asked if it was just in case he was diagnosed with something. They said yes.

 

They call an hour and a half later and tell me the xrays came back normal and he didn't need sedation for them (wasn't told that was even a possible factor!) but they decided to go ahead and give him some an anti-nausea shot and an antacid shot. I asked why he was given an anti-nausea med when he's not nauseous, he throws up once or twice for in week or two and then is fine for weeks. Especially with this happening for years. In fact, he had dinner last night and was fine. She said oh! Well, it also is given to help move stuff along the digestive tract. She then also told me the vet wanted to do a full senior panel to get the values for how his digestive tract is working since nothing was found on the xrays. I agreed.

 

So I went into the vet and I was, admittedly, a bit upset about him getting meds when I was told "everything was fine" with the xrays. I mean... how can you treat something that... isn't there? I wanted reasons he got the meds and was going to ask (nicely) for an explanation.

 

So most of the entire staff was there waiting for me when I got there. The vet, two vet techs and two front desk people. The vet started launching into me with questions like if he's fed shoulder-height (no... he won't eat it that way, but he lays down and eats it on the floor... so he's not leaning down), if I allow him to exercise after eating (nope) and stuff. When she was done with her questions I told her the only question I had was why he was given the medications.

 

She said, Well, I guess I could have called you and asked but when you bring a dog in to be treated by me and I see a dog in distress (???!!) I do what I can for it. I'm here for the dog.

 

And then she started going into possible bloat and the fact that a lot of air was found in his xrays and was getting pretty angry at me.

 

Um... hold on a minute... there was NO mention of this on the phone. I was told his xrays were normal.

 

Anyway, she launched into me again about how he's close to bloat and and how she was just trying to prevent that.

 

Yeah, I got that. All that had to be said was bloat. She left and I was in tears (okay, so I'm a bit emotional these days and am prone to crying easily).

 

I don't understand all of this. I was just asking WHY he was given meds. I'm not going to just go "okay" and go on my merry way without knowing what's going on with him. All I want to know is why. If it's necessary, it's necessary. I also want to make sure I'm not being taken advantage of. Seriously, is that so wrong?

 

I've decided that I'm going to cancel Chase's appointment next month to get his year shots. I'm going to take him to the vet on the Navy base. They do the routine stuff and are waaaaaay cheaper with no office visit fee. Might as well save where I can. That, and I think I'm going to start looking for a new vet but we will (hopefully) be moving in the spring, so maybe I should just stay where I am and find a vet when we move.

 

I should add that this is very normal for this vet, apparently. This is the third time I'm given an estimate for something and they "forget" to tell me about charges until they are already done or it's too late to change. And each estimate has been for more than double. Not even CLOSE to the estimate.

 

Anyway... does anyone have any suggestions for preventing excess air in the stomach? Other than the normal things? Or have you run into something like this situation before?

Edited October 26, 2010 by savvyprchick

[tbhounds]

Might be time for an endoscopy.

[Guest cwholsin]

Skah, our Great Pyrenees, has been throwing up off on and since he was about a year old. He'll go days where he throws everything up. Then he'll go 3 weeks or 3 months without throwing up at all. We've had him into the vet and tested for parasites, tested for everything they could think of... and nothing.

 

We've tried all sorts of food and eliminated nearly everything. We finally found one that we thought worked... Acana Pacifica.

 

He went three months without throwing up. Threw up three times last week. And the just threw up again. Most of the time, I swear he throws up only when I'm not home (so it took a while to figure out what dog is definitely doing it). Tonight, he threw up what looks to be nearly his entire meal... 11 hours after he ate. And the kibble is pretty much completely formed, although mushy (apparently, he doesn't swallow his kibble even though I do HEAR him crunching it).

 

Am I wrong in thinking that this food should have been digested by now? I kept a sample for the vet tomorrow, but I would have thought that after 11 hours, he wouldn't have much of anything left in his stomach. I'm wondering if maybe he has something wrong with his digestive organs.

 

ETA: After he pukes once, he's fine. Happy. Ready to play. Never looking sick.

 

 

 

I've read online (don't know how true it is) that kibble can stay in the stomach up to 12 hours depending on the activity level etc. of the dog.

 

Also, have you discussed acid reflux with the vet? Hermes had a very similar problem a few weeks back where he was throwing up almost daily and sometimes he was throwing up kibble long after we figured it would've digested. The vet gave him an antacid 2x a day for 10 days and that took care of the problem. Hermes seemed otherwise completely normal besides the vomiting too. Just a thought!

 

Hope you find an answer!

 

 

[Guest savvyprchick]

Skah, our Great Pyrenees, has been throwing up off on and since he was about a year old. He'll go days where he throws everything up. Then he'll go 3 weeks or 3 months without throwing up at all. We've had him into the vet and tested for parasites, tested for everything they could think of... and nothing.

 

We've tried all sorts of food and eliminated nearly everything. We finally found one that we thought worked... Acana Pacifica.

 

He went three months without throwing up. Threw up three times last week. And the just threw up again. Most of the time, I swear he throws up only when I'm not home (so it took a while to figure out what dog is definitely doing it). Tonight, he threw up what looks to be nearly his entire meal... 11 hours after he ate. And the kibble is pretty much completely formed, although mushy (apparently, he doesn't swallow his kibble even though I do HEAR him crunching it).

 

Am I wrong in thinking that this food should have been digested by now? I kept a sample for the vet tomorrow, but I would have thought that after 11 hours, he wouldn't have much of anything left in his stomach. I'm wondering if maybe he has something wrong with his digestive organs.

 

ETA: After he pukes once, he's fine. Happy. Ready to play. Never looking sick.

 

 

 

I've read online (don't know how true it is) that kibble can stay in the stomach up to 12 hours depending on the activity level etc. of the dog.

 

Also, have you discussed acid reflux with the vet? Hermes had a very similar problem a few weeks back where he was throwing up almost daily and sometimes he was throwing up kibble long after we figured it would've digested. The vet gave him an antacid 2x a day for 10 days and that took care of the problem. Hermes seemed otherwise completely normal besides the vomiting too. Just a thought!

 

Hope you find an answer!

 

That's a good suggestion. I'll talk to the vet. Skah was on acid controllers once a year or two ago when he was having diarrhea/puking problems and they thought part of it was acid. Could possibly be it's an all-the-time acid problem.

Edited October 25, 2010 by savvyprchick

[FiveRoooooers]

Is Skah's weight good? If he isn't digesting his meals, a probiotic might help. We give Culturelle (capsule, OTC) once a day to my hound who wasn't utilizing his groceries; big improvement! Good luck with your boy.

[Batmom]

I would try him on a homecooked diet for a time.

[Guest racergirl435]

Another idea... check the ingredients of all the foods you've tried with him. Maybe there is a common ingredient in them and that is what is upsetting Skah. Also, is he chewing anything else, possibly in an attempt to soothe acid reflux? I know when Seymour had acid reflux he was chewing things he shouldn't have been chewing (plaster off the walls, lace curtains, etc.). Have you tried him on a bland diet? What else is in his diet other than the kibble? Does he have access (even if it's minimal) to food other than his own? i.e. your other dogs' food, cat food, people food, etc. If it is acid reflux, something in his diet is triggering it. I'd say probiotics couldn't hurt, but I'd defnitely be thinking about a bland diet for him for a while.

[macoduck]

Any chance Skah could have swallowed a toy/cloth/unedible item? It could be churning around in his stomach for months.

[Batmom]

Any chance Skah could have swallowed a toy/cloth/unedible item? It could be churning around in his stomach for months.

 

Ya know, I didn't think of that and I should have. So let me revise:

 

1. X-ray those innards!

 

2. If nothing on X-ray, try homecooked for 4-6 weeks (or long enough that you're 100% sure he's not puking anymore). If still puking, maybe referral to the nearest university with a vet school? If not still puking, start back on a kibble that's totally different from any you've fed before.

 

 

My Joseph harbored a foreign body in his stomach for 8 months before it caused a problem and necessitated surgery.

 

Neighbor's dog harbored a foreign body for @ 6 months. Dog was intermittently ill, dozens of tests, meds, etc. Last time dog was ill, fortunately went to specialist who said hmmm, x-rayed, found the darned thing, and whisked dog straight to surgery. Dog would've died if it hadn't been removed at that time -- literally a matter of hours. She'd chewed the top knob off a Kong and swallowed it. When the hole was pointing the right way, things went thru. When it wasn't, they didn't.

[Guest iconsmum]

"She'd chewed the top knob off a Kong and swallowed it. When the hole was pointing the right way, things went thru. When it wasn't, they didn't."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh my god, that's awful...I just choked on my coffee.

Edited October 25, 2010 by iconsmum

[GeorgeofNE]

If he threw up 11 hours after he ate, that MUST mean you're only feeding once a day?

 

My old dog, a non Grey also, was a perpetual vomiter as well, I started giving him Zantac (not be confused with Xanax!) every day. Seems as if he just had excess stomach acid and it made him barf.

 

If she's only getting fed once a day, maybe it's a similar thing? I'd try feeding her twice a day and see if that helps. I'd also try an antacid (check with your vet for dose and best type).

[Guest savvyprchick]

Is Skah's weight good? If he isn't digesting his meals, a probiotic might help. We give Culturelle (capsule, OTC) once a day to my hound who wasn't utilizing his groceries; big improvement! Good luck with your boy.

 

His weight is just fine. If anything, he could stand to lose 5 pounds.

 

I would try him on a homecooked diet for a time.

 

There is a problem with that... there are times I leave and DH does NOT cook. And then there are times we are both gone (Navy) like next month so we can't expect a sitter to cook for him.

 

Another idea... check the ingredients of all the foods you've tried with him. Maybe there is a common ingredient in them and that is what is upsetting Skah. Also, is he chewing anything else, possibly in an attempt to soothe acid reflux? I know when Seymour had acid reflux he was chewing things he shouldn't have been chewing (plaster off the walls, lace curtains, etc.). Have you tried him on a bland diet? What else is in his diet other than the kibble? Does he have access (even if it's minimal) to food other than his own? i.e. your other dogs' food, cat food, people food, etc. If it is acid reflux, something in his diet is triggering it. I'd say probiotics couldn't hurt, but I'd defnitely be thinking about a bland diet for him for a while.

 

I've eliminated nearly everything at one point in time. He's not chewing anything (they aren't chewers). They generally don't get treats (because of Skah) and when they do, that doesn't mean he'll throw up. It's totally random. The bland diet... he'll still throw up on that.

 

Any chance Skah could have swallowed a toy/cloth/unedible item? It could be churning around in his stomach for months.

 

Ya know, I didn't think of that and I should have. So let me revise:

 

1. X-ray those innards!

 

2. If nothing on X-ray, try homecooked for 4-6 weeks (or long enough that you're 100% sure he's not puking anymore). If still puking, maybe referral to the nearest university with a vet school? If not still puking, start back on a kibble that's totally different from any you've fed before.

 

 

My Joseph harbored a foreign body in his stomach for 8 months before it caused a problem and necessitated surgery.

 

Neighbor's dog harbored a foreign body for @ 6 months. Dog was intermittently ill, dozens of tests, meds, etc. Last time dog was ill, fortunately went to specialist who said hmmm, x-rayed, found the darned thing, and whisked dog straight to surgery. Dog would've died if it hadn't been removed at that time -- literally a matter of hours. She'd chewed the top knob off a Kong and swallowed it. When the hole was pointing the right way, things went thru. When it wasn't, they didn't.

 

He's been like this for two years. And I can't ever be "sure" he's not puking... he just went three months after I switched him to a totally new food (which we've done several times over the last two years) and we thought we were done. Problem is, we never go more than a month or two without both of us leaving for the Navy for something or another.

 

 

Skah IS going to get xrays tomorrow, a complete "senior" blood workup, including T4 (even though he's only 2 1/2) and fecal exam. We'll see.

 

If he threw up 11 hours after he ate, that MUST mean you're only feeding once a day?

 

My old dog, a non Grey also, was a perpetual vomiter as well, I started giving him Zantac (not be confused with Xanax!) every day. Seems as if he just had excess stomach acid and it made him barf.

 

If she's only getting fed once a day, maybe it's a similar thing? I'd try feeding her twice a day and see if that helps. I'd also try an antacid (check with your vet for dose and best type).

 

No, it doesn't mean he only eats once a day. They eat twice a day... every 12 hours. Chase needs meds every 12 hours (thyroid problems).

[Batmom]

If all else fails and it seems like cooking might be a good idea, what I've done for my homecookees who might have to be boarded, etc. is cook up a bunch in advance and freeze in meal-sized portions. Takes a bit of freezer space and a bit of time up front, but not impossible .

[Guest savvyprchick]

If all else fails and it seems like cooking might be a good idea, what I've done for my homecookees who might have to be boarded, etc. is cook up a bunch in advance and freeze in meal-sized portions. Takes a bit of freezer space and a bit of time up front, but not impossible .

 

If we have to do that... we will. I'm just trying to avoid it right now!

[Guest savvyprchick]

Update in first post

[Guest houndog990]

Let me tell you about Hubby. lived in a home for a few years, vomiting off and on for the entire time in the home, DVM Dx with acid reflux. ( $1 billion dollars later and every test known to man) he went on acid reducers that didn’t really help. That’s when he came back.

 

He was in his (failed) foster home for a year when with no change. the DVM wanted to scope him, thought he might have “pockets” in his esophagus that are collecting the food/fluid.

 

Started talking to another “grey” friend- “weird thing” she says her non-grey went thru same thing. Found out it was WHIP WORMS. Intermittent vomiting was symptom of the times the worms were multiplying between interceptor. ($1 Billion dollars later and every test known to man) They needed to treat aggressively. 7 day course of Panacur, three weeks off, 7day course three weeks off, then the last 7 day course. (This is the same treatment schedule for giardia) Dog was cured!

 

So I mention this to Hubby’s mom who in turn relays this to DVM. He says ”can’t hurt let’s give it a try- not much else to try…”

 

After last treatment Hubby started to look better, had brightness in his eyes. Friend finally said “ya know I can’t remember the last time he was sick.”

 

He is now on a three week schedule for interceptor year round to stop the re-infestation of whips. 4 years later he is still good and *no more vomiting!*

just my $.02 !

[Guest savvyprchick]

Let me tell you about Hubby. lived in a home for a few years, vomiting off and on for the entire time in the home, DVM Dx with acid reflux. ( $1 billion dollars later and every test known to man) he went on acid reducers that didn’t really help. That’s when he came back.

 

He was in his (failed) foster home for a year when with no change. the DVM wanted to scope him, thought he might have “pockets” in his esophagus that are collecting the food/fluid.

 

Started talking to another “grey” friend- “weird thing” she says her non-grey went thru same thing. Found out it was WHIP WORMS. Intermittent vomiting was symptom of the times the worms were multiplying between interceptor. ($1 Billion dollars later and every test known to man) They needed to treat aggressively. 7 day course of Panacur, three weeks off, 7day course three weeks off, then the last 7 day course. (This is the same treatment schedule for giardia) Dog was cured!

 

So I mention this to Hubby’s mom who in turn relays this to DVM. He says ”can’t hurt let’s give it a try- not much else to try…”

 

After last treatment Hubby started to look better, had brightness in his eyes. Friend finally said “ya know I can’t remember the last time he was sick.”

 

He is now on a three week schedule for interceptor year round to stop the re-infestation of whips. 4 years later he is still good and *no more vomiting!*

just my $.02 !

 

I'll ask about that if nothing comes back on the blood tests. He's been through many weeks of treatment like that just to make sure it wasn't Giarida so I would think whips would have been taken care of then, but I'll definitely ask.

[Batmom]

Hmmm, given what you went through, I'd want to *see* the x-rays with the excess air on them.

 

If he does have excess air hanging around in his stomach/intestines, the question would be why. Most likely answers would be partial blockage that didn't show up on the x-ray, eating too fast, or (if the air is in the intestines) food that doesn't agree with him.

 

I'm sorry you had such a miserable experience with this vet, and for the $$, too. I likely wouldn't go back there either.

 

Scritchies to fuzzy boy.