Anesthesia For Ear Problem

[Guest TahoeMom]

My greyhound would not let the vet (and his assistant ) look in his ears.

He howled and squealed and ran away.

The vet did manage to scrape a little out of one ear and look at it under a scope.

He said he only saw some rare yeast cells.

 

He prescribed prednisone for inflammation and said that if the problem (scratching, shaking, whining) persists,

he'd have to anesthetize the dog to do any more probing.

 

Does that sound reasonable? Anesthesia just to look inside a dog's ears???

Seems like the risk far outweighs the benefits in the case of a greyhound.

[mychip1]

I am a bit gunshy....I sent my Jack in for minor corn surgery and a dental (which he could have gone without - but we figured while he was under we would do it) and I lost him. His vet was a track vet who knows the breed extraordinarily well. My motto from here forward....absolutely NO elective surgeries. If I could take back that day, I would have just tried to manage the corn. The guilt I live with is unbearable some days...As far as what the ear thing could be....sounds like a bit of an infection. My vet has prescribed antibiotic ointment in the past for ear stuff.

 

I don't mean to scare you out of it completely....and I would hate to see something horrible develop in his ear, but I just urge you to take your time to consider the options...maybe talk to another vet for a second opinion.

Edited October 5, 2010 by mychip1

[Tallgreydogmom]

A few of my big boys do not like their nails cut and I mean big time do not like it. My vet gives a shot to mellow them out. We wait with them and they recover in about 20 minutes.

 

Let me know if your want me to ask my vet. The vet techs on here should be able to tell you what it is. If your vet can not do it that way, find another vet.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Tallgreydogmom

[Guest Energy11]

A few of my big boys do not like their nails cut and I mean big time do not like it. My vet gives a shot to mellow them out. We wait with them and they recover in about 20 minutes.

 

Let me know if your want me to ask my vet. The vet techs on here should be able to tell you what it is. If your vet can not do it that way, find another vet.

 

 

I am afraid we are going to have to do this with our Cari! She never minded getting her nails done before, but now, attacks, even with muzzle and peanut butter! Do you know what your vet gives to sedate them? I HATE doing this, but her nails are getting ridiculous, and won't let us come near her, even with a Dremmel.

[TheFullHouse]

He didn't give you anything to treat the yeast? You can order some Zymox drops on line that don't require a prescription for yeast and bacterial infections in the ear. Personally I'd try that and see if it works first. You use it twice a day for 7 days and if it's a chronic condition you can use it twice a day for 14 days.

 

You might also try your local pet store for the drops. They may carry it there.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Do you clean/inspect the ears regularly? With ears, as often with nails, hounds can become very averse to someone touching them if it isn't a regular occurrence. If your own people don't touch your ears and condition you to having your ears touched, you aren't apt to take kindly to a stranger messing around in there.

 

I've not yet had a dog whose ears I couldn't clean or nails clip/dremeled. It's a matter of exposure overtime (touching paws or ears everyday), rewarding goood behavior, and working your way up slowly.

 

My rescue IG was terrified of people when I first rescued him. The only way I could get him out of the greyhound sized vari kennel was to hold the cat at the entrance and hide behind it (this was not the cat's favorite part of the plan, but it worked). When it came to cleaning ears and dremeling nails we began at the beginning. At first, the sound of the dremel running in the same room would set him to panting and circling. Now he just lays there to get his nails done and his ears cleaned.

[Guest TahoeMom]

Hi folks, thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I am also adverse to elective surgeries. I'm sorry, mychip1, that you lost your pup Jack during a minor surgery. The only way to do anything painful is anesthesia. I'm thinking that tallgreydogmom has a good idea: some valium. All they want to do is look at his ear canal. the vet actually told me to stay out of his ears, because I guess he thought I had caused some ear-trauma by cleaning them too much. (Of course, it's my fault.) But I was just doing what the shelter vet told me to do when he had an ear infection (bloody) 2 months ago: clean the ears out every other day and administer cephalexin and Otomax twice a day. My biggest fear is that he'll lose his hearing because of a chronic infection that never went away.

 

Sooo...if he's still troubled by his ears, I'll take the slow road, investigate over-the-counter options, and consult with another vet.

 

Thanks again folks,

joyce

[mychip1]

Hi folks, thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I am also adverse to elective surgeries. I'm sorry, mychip1, that you lost your pup Jack during a minor surgery. The only way to do anything painful is anesthesia. I'm thinking that tallgreydogmom has a good idea: some valium. All they want to do is look at his ear canal. the vet actually told me to stay out of his ears, because I guess he thought I had caused some ear-trauma by cleaning them too much. (Of course, it's my fault.) But I was just doing what the shelter vet told me to do when he had an ear infection (bloody) 2 months ago: clean the ears out every other day and administer cephalexin and Otomax twice a day. My biggest fear is that he'll lose his hearing because of a chronic infection that never went away.

 

Sooo...if he's still troubled by his ears, I'll take the slow road, investigate over-the-counter options, and consult with another vet.

 

Thanks again folks,

joyce

 

Good luck!!! Yup, if there is a minor painkiller or sedative, I think it's a much better option.

[jenn8]

Ear infections can be very painful. If your dog continues to whine after trying the prednisone, I would get him back to a vet and see if they can use a sedative to find out what is going on.

 

Jenn

[Guest Swifthounds]

Have you tried just wiping out his ears with a bit of olive oil (you can add a drop of lavendar oil for additional soothing)? It's non-irritating (which ceph and otomax are not) and safe to be used daily. An over growth of yeast is usually the result of a systemic problem (immune suppression, high carb intake, etc.) With my experience with ear troubles i dogs, there's as much evidence that the topical ear cleaners and solutions contribute as much to hearing damage and continuing irritation as anything else, sometimes more.

 

My crew is raw fed, so no carbs or grains to feed yeast overgrowth, and it's amazing how much cleaner their ears are. I used to check and clean ears (with a soft clean cloth with oilive oil) once per week. There was gunk, but never any redness or swelling. Since the diet change I still check, but no longer have anything to clean out.

[DesiRayMom]

FWIT: I've seen ear infections that seem to be instigated by food allergy. What is he eating?

I'm a firm believer in grain-free.

[Guest Bamn]

I think for a grey the anesthesia is a little overboard to start (unless you have had poor results with an oral sedative) but the vet may be being overly cautious - oral sedatives can have adverse reactions in grey's. They may be talking about fast acting anesthesia like Propafol (the stuff MJ od'd on)or just straight gas which starts reversing the minute you take the mask off. If it's really painful, the vet my be trying to save severe discomfort. Good luck!

Edited October 6, 2010 by Bamn

[Guest Swifthounds]

Just wanted to add that a good vet can do light sedation (where the hound is awake, but relaxed) similar to how some people have dental work done. This is what the specialist vet did to clean a wound and insert a drain on one of my senior boys. (The first hospital wanted to do a more extensive procedure under anesthesia, for three times the cost. Try as I might, they just didn't get that my concern wasn't the cost, but putting an old, arthritic hound (who has always been frail) under full anesthesia, so they didn't get my business either.)

[Guest TahoeMom]

FWIT: I've seen ear infections that seem to be instigated by food allergy. What is he eating?

I'm a firm believer in grain-free.

 

he is eating Iams mini-bites 2-4 cups per day + 1-2 h.b. eggs + ground turkey + rice....he's had issues with loose stools, but I think that has more to do with his overall sensitivity to changes in his environment. He may have allergies; it's tough figuring out to what.

 

Have you tried just wiping out his ears with a bit of olive oil (you can add a drop of lavendar oil for additional soothing)? It's non-irritating (which ceph and otomax are not) and safe to be used daily. An over growth of yeast is usually the result of a systemic problem (immune suppression, high carb intake, etc.) With my experience with ear troubles i dogs, there's as much evidence that the topical ear cleaners and solutions contribute as much to hearing damage and continuing irritation as anything else, sometimes more.

 

My crew is raw fed, so no carbs or grains to feed yeast overgrowth, and it's amazing how much cleaner their ears are. I used to check and clean ears (with a soft clean cloth with oilive oil) once per week. There was gunk, but never any redness or swelling. Since the diet change I still check, but no longer have anything to clean out.

 

The vet didn't find a lot of yeast. But I will try the daily olive oil swabbing. He's been scratching elsewhere. I tried adding olive oil to his feed, but it didn't seem to help.

 

FWIT: I've seen ear infections that seem to be instigated by food allergy. What is he eating?

I'm a firm believer in grain-free.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention..I've recently added pumpkin and Activia to his diet to help digestion.

 

I think for a grey the anesthesia is a little overboard to start (unless you have had poor results with an oral sedative) but the vet may be being overly cautious - oral sedatives can have adverse reactions in grey's. They may be talking about fast acting anesthesia like Propafol (the stuff MJ od'd on)or just straight gas which starts reversing the minute you take the mask off. If it's really painful, the vet my be trying to save severe discomfort. Good luck!

 

I think the vet, like me, was very disturbed by Brendan's reaction to swabbing his ears. He may have over-reacted with his comment about anesthesia. I don't know this vet very well. I do know that he doesn't want to cause the poor dog any pain. I agree that a mild sedative would probably help.

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

There could be a greater problem other then just an ear infection. That could be why the vet is wanting to sedate to get a better look.

If it's a ruptured ear drum or something of the sorts, continuing to dump Otomax and things of the like is not helping it heal Not your fault, it's what you were told to do.

 

Also with the Otomax, if it's the thick stuff in a tube it really does need to be cleaned out before more is put in. Just putting the Otomax and not cleaning it out before next application can cause more problems. It can build up in the ear canal.

 

But I agree with a light sedation if possible. Will all depend on your hound and how much he relaxes.

[Guest TahoeMom]

There could be a greater problem other then just an ear infection. That could be why the vet is wanting to sedate to get a better look.

If it's a ruptured ear drum or something of the sorts, continuing to dump Otomax and things of the like is not helping it heal Not your fault, it's what you were told to do.

 

Also with the Otomax, if it's the thick stuff in a tube it really does need to be cleaned out before more is put in. Just putting the Otomax and not cleaning it out before next application can cause more problems. It can build up in the ear canal.

 

But I agree with a light sedation if possible. Will all depend on your hound and how much he relaxes.

 

The prescription of otomax given to me by the shelter vet is very thin and disperses outside of the ear canal when Brendan shakes. That is what is supposed to happen I've been told. Anyway, I've stopped putting anything in his ear canal now. I'm simply wiping his outer ear wtih olive oil, hoping to relieve some itching there. I've also taken him off the prednisone that was prescribed, as it may be causing intestinal distress. Although the horrific exam may also have caused that. I simply don't know.

[TheFullHouse]

If he's itching elsewhere, I'd be highly suspicious of an allergy and it may well be to the food. You can try switching to a grain free food and see how that goes, that may take care of the stool and itching problems. It will take about 3 weeks for you to tell if it's working though. Gee had horrible problems with her ears, she would shake her head and scratch her ears until they were almost purple. She also itched in other places too. Switching to a grain free food fixed all of that. No more yeast in the ears, no more scratching. It may be worth a try.

[Guest TahoeMom]

If he's itching elsewhere, I'd be highly suspicious of an allergy and it may well be to the food. You can try switching to a grain free food and see how that goes, that may take care of the stool and itching problems. It will take about 3 weeks for you to tell if it's working though. Gee had horrible problems with her ears, she would shake her head and scratch her ears until they were almost purple. She also itched in other places too. Switching to a grain free food fixed all of that. No more yeast in the ears, no more scratching. It may be worth a try.

 

Maybe so. I need to get him stabilized before I do anything like switching foods on him. He's incredibly sensitive to change. You suggested Zymox earlier. I'll add that to my list of things to try. Thanks.

[Guest Swifthounds]

For tummy troubles I would ditch the yogurt and the pumpkin and try something liek Slipepry Elm bark instead. I've found it works better on all manner of tummy trouble and makes them confortable faster and better than chemical treatments and without the side effects of dairy and pumpkin (which is just "tasty" fiber - which may tend to put more strain on a dog's GI tract).

 

The oilive oil is good topically, but if you want to add an oil to his food, try a fish body oil or salmon (just make sure it doesn't contain soy - it can be an allergen itself). Oilive oil has Omega 6s as well sa 3s. The 3s are what you want increased in the diet to balance out existing 6s in meat and kibble and reduce inflammation. I would go easy though and let bowel tolerance be my guide.

 

Also, how is he with the olive oil? Was he good before when you put the otomax in? It may be that the otomax solution was irritating, or it may be that he was just freaked by the circumstances with the vet. If he's better with your ear cleaning, you might have a conversation with the vet about trying again without anesthesia, just to rule out major damage.

[Guest TahoeMom]

For tummy troubles I would ditch the yogurt and the pumpkin and try something liek Slipepry Elm bark instead. I've found it works better on all manner of tummy trouble and makes them confortable faster and better than chemical treatments and without the side effects of dairy and pumpkin (which is just "tasty" fiber - which may tend to put more strain on a dog's GI tract).

 

The oilive oil is good topically, but if you want to add an oil to his food, try a fish body oil or salmon (just make sure it doesn't contain soy - it can be an allergen itself). Oilive oil has Omega 6s as well sa 3s. The 3s are what you want increased in the diet to balance out existing 6s in meat and kibble and reduce inflammation. I would go easy though and let bowel tolerance be my guide.

 

Also, how is he with the olive oil? Was he good before when you put the otomax in? It may be that the otomax solution was irritating, or it may be that he was just freaked by the circumstances with the vet. If he's better with your ear cleaning, you might have a conversation with the vet about trying again without anesthesia, just to rule out major damage.

 

Olive oil does nothing but give him more diarrhea. Activia yoghurt is the only thing that works. I may stop pumpkin, as I think that does nothing too. Otomax is a broad-spectrum antibiotic topical for ears. It was prescribed by his shelter vet for the first ear infection (bloody) 2 months ago. His ears cleared up on that the first time. For his next ear infection, his new vet said to leave his ears alone (after he traumatized him). He prescribed prednisone, but on that his diarrhea is back. I'm not sure why his diarrhea is back. But I stopped giving the prednisone anyway, and I will wait to get his stomach issues resolved before doing anything else for his ears. He doesn't seem to be in any pain anymore (yay!) Maybe the ears will clear up by themselves.

[Guest mbfilby]

I find it questionable that a vet would tell you to stay out of the ears. We use cotton balls dampened with warm water and a tiny amount of mild soap.

 

Cy had ear trouble this summer in Alabama. We figured out it was a combination of food and humidity. A change to lower grain food, cleaning, and antibiotic drops cleared it up.

 

If your pup ever needs anesthesia, demand that they use isoflurane gas only, along with an IV catheter with fluids and do the pre-surgical blood work.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I find it questionable that a vet would tell you to stay out of the ears.

 

Yes and no. It is well documented that excessive cleaning as well as topically applied antibitic cleansing solutions and ointments can exascerbate ear issues, even leading to ruptured ear drums, hearing loss, and extreme discomfort.

 

If your pup ever needs anesthesia, demand that they use isoflurane gas only, along with an IV catheter with fluids and do the pre-surgical blood work.

 

It always surprises me that places are still using iso. Most practices in my area have switched over to sevoflurane, due to it having a slightly faster ability to change depth of anesthesia. Of course that means that dogs can go deeper faster as well, but then the safety of gas anesthetics comes mainly from better monitoring. Sevo is more expensive - around $1/ml (about what Iso was when it first came out).

[Guest TahoeMom]

I find it questionable that a vet would tell you to stay out of the ears.

 

Yes and no. It is well documented that excessive cleaning as well as topically applied antibitic cleansing solutions and ointments can exascerbate ear issues, even leading to ruptured ear drums, hearing loss, and extreme discomfort.

 

If your pup ever needs anesthesia, demand that they use isoflurane gas only, along with an IV catheter with fluids and do the pre-surgical blood work.

 

It always surprises me that places are still using iso. Most practices in my area have switched over to sevoflurane, due to it having a slightly faster ability to change depth of anesthesia. Of course that means that dogs can go deeper faster as well, but then the safety of gas anesthetics comes mainly from better monitoring. Sevo is more expensive - around $1/ml (about what Iso was when it first came out).

 

I was using a cleaning solution that the shelter vet provided along with Otomax and cephalexin for the last ear infection. He actually let the shelter vet look in his ears, and they were much worse then. This time, his ears aren't that bad, so I don't know if maybe he just doesn't like the new vet, or if it's something more serious.

I have to wait and see if it gets worse....and hope it just gets better.

[Guest mbfilby]

I find it questionable that a vet would tell you to stay out of the ears.

 

Yes and no. It is well documented that excessive cleaning as well as topically applied antibitic cleansing solutions and ointments can exascerbate ear issues, even leading to ruptured ear drums, hearing loss, and extreme discomfort.

 

If your pup ever needs anesthesia, demand that they use isoflurane gas only, along with an IV catheter with fluids and do the pre-surgical blood work.

 

It always surprises me that places are still using iso. Most practices in my area have switched over to sevoflurane, due to it having a slightly faster ability to change depth of anesthesia. Of course that means that dogs can go deeper faster as well, but then the safety of gas anesthetics comes mainly from better monitoring. Sevo is more expensive - around $1/ml (about what Iso was when it first came out).

 

Our vet still used ISO, but Sevo is a good alternative. I had not found in our area that it is the gas of choice yet, but Alabama prides itself on being 10 years behind the rest of the world...

 

The (lowest risk) protocol is a reduced dose of ACE as a pre-surgical tranq, followed by diazapam/ketamine or propofol as an induction agent for intubation with ISO or Sevo as the holding agent, along with IV fluids and temperature monitoring. The vet needs to be cautious with the induction drugs, and should give 1/2 the recommended (greyhound reduced) dose initially, then small additions until just enough is used.

 

Our vet had put or dogs under multiple times, and I go over this with him each time as a reminder. If your vet is offended, find another vet, most understand.