Jack And The Search For Fabulous Poop

[rascalsmom]

What a topic, eh?

 

Here's the short version.

We brought Jack home from the farm on 11/29/09. At the suggestion of our adoption group person, we gave him a couple of days of plain old chicken and potatoes, then began the switch to our kibble (Fromm Adult Gold). It wasn't pretty. He had really soft poop, and it was rather difficult to pick it up. So in January, we switched him to Iams Veterinary Formula, Low Residue. The vet suggested that some greyhounds just don't do well on the "high end" food, or it could be that his gut was inflamed from the transition, and this rx food would calm things down.

 

It did, pretty much. Then, in June, I started a very slow transition back to the Fromm food. I mean, very slow. In fact, still transitioning (but really, only have a tiny bit of the rx food left now). His poop isn't great. It starts out well, but ends up with the stuff that's almost impossible to pick up, and you've got a big skid mark in the yard. Especially NOT good on a walk!! He also gets some really nasty gas.

 

Anyway, I'm taking him for his checkup on Thursday, and am going to talk to the vet about this, but I'm considering a different food.

The prescription food was recalled, so who knows if it's available yet....and it's VERY expensive!!

 

Here are some I'm considering. I'll leave the names off until I get some input. I'm trying to stick to chicken, since I know he tolerates that, from the time he spent eating chicken and potatoes.

 

Fromm Adult Gold (this one I'll name, since it's what he's largely on now, and so are the girls)

Duck, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Brown Rice, Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Lamb, Potato, Tomato Pomace, Whole Egg, Salmon Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Cheese, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Lecithin, Chicken Cartilage, Monocalcium Phosphate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Longum, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcous Faecium, Vitamin A, D3, E, B12 Supplements, Choline Chloride, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Carbonate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sorbic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite.

 

Brand #2:

Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, dried beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.Calorie Content: 3,708 kcal/kg (368 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy

 

Brand #3:

Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Barley, Brewers Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Chicken Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Dried Egg Product, Fish Meal, Potassium Chloride, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Flax Meal, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Calcium Carbonate, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

 

Brand #4:

Chicken, Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Ground Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, White Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Fish Meal, Whole Egg, Beet Pulp, Cheese, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Salt, DL-Methionine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Longum, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcous Faecium, Vitamin A, D3, E, B12 Supplements, Choline Chloride, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Carbonate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite

 

Any thoughts?

[OwnedBySummer]

I'm not an expert as I've never had the necessity to really get into the nuts and bolts of kibble... but I wouldn't feed Brand #3 to my dog. I don't like by-products. At some point, after you get all your information... I'd love to hear what the brands are!

[rschultz]

try the grain free food from wellness. works great for lexie ..she has a very sensitive tummy. I also add sweet potatoes in her diet which helps. gl lexie use to be on the low residue iams too. she drank so much water while on it. I think it must have had a lot of salt in it.

Edited September 14, 2010 by rschultz

[rascalsmom]

I'm not an expert as I've never had the necessity to really get into the nuts and bolts of kibble... but I wouldn't feed Brand #3 to my dog. I don't like by-products. At some point, after you get all your information... I'd love to hear what the brands are!

I agree, some of those ingredients don't look terrific. However, the prescription food ingredients label was downright frightening....and he did well on that.

 

Here it is:

Corn Grits, Brewers Rice, Chicken By-Product Meal, Chicken, Fish Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Egg Product, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E, and Citric Acid), Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Monosodium Phosphate, Fish Oil (preserved with Ethoxyquin), Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Flax Meal, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplelment, Potassium Iodide, Folic Acid, Cobalt Carbonate

 

Can you imagine, $68 for a 30 pound bag of dog food with the first ingredient of CORN GRITS?? Sad but true.

Edited September 14, 2010 by rascalsmom

[Guest eaglflyt]

Acana grain free worked for Ady Bea! Perfect poops ... and all our other pups too!

 

Our favorite is Acana Pacifica, but we do rotate between the 3 grain free Acana varieties. Our old man, Jake (14 yr. old Aussie) doesn't tolerate any chicken, so the orange bag is not in his rotation.

[Guest sirsmom]

Actually the only food that works for one of ours is#3, by products & all. (eukanuba or iams) we tried all the other ones.

[Guest GreyFan09]

Actually switching our dog over from a chicken based kibble to a lamb-based kibble fixed up his loose poop problem. Seems he doesn't tollerate chicken too well. We also add pumpkin (when available) or sweet potatoes as well.

[Sambuca]

I'm a huge fan of Taste of the Wild. I would also recommend something with no chicken or chicken products. Many dogs are sensitive to it.

[PrairieProf]

I'm a huge fan of Taste of the Wild. I would also recommend something with no chicken or chicken products. Many dogs are sensitive to it.

 

+1 TOTW Pacific Stream has worked great for me -- the only formula with no chicken, though they have just this moment introduced a single-protein formula with lamb. And it's not as rich as many grain frees.

 

At any rate, all the three foods you list ingredients for seem more similar than not ... I would consider something different. It doesn't have to be chicken+grain.

[Batmom]

My first pick would be one of the foods with some beet pulp. I don't mind named by-products (as in "chicken by-products," "beef by-products") -- that's mostly stuff like organ meats, quite nutritious.

 

I've had the same experience as Hubcitypam -- sometimes, when all else fails, you throw a bag of IAMS (Adult, or Lamb & Rice) in the cart and you a happy, glossy dog with turds that roll. All dogs are different, tho.

[moosesmom]

Another fan of TOTW Pacific Stream. Works great for us.

[Guest dramaqueen]

Are sweet potatoes really good for greyhounds? Looking for something good to mix into Ruby's food that tastes good.

[OwnedBySummer]

Here's a recipe from another member, Becky_R. I have made this recipe for Summer and she gobbles up her kibble now, no problem. I only used half the amount of yogurt by stirring it into the full recipe, THEN divided it up and froze most of it in double servings. BTW, I use Blue Buffalo kibble.

 

Puppie gruel recipe

 

Thoroughly mix 1 pound of lean ground beef with 3 cups of water.

Bring to a boil, and add 2/3 cup brown rice.

Turn the heat back down to a simmer and cook 15 minutes.

Add 2/3 cup red lentils and cook another 15 minutes, or until the rice is soft.

Check periodically, and add more water if needed.

Let this mixture cool, then freeze half of it and use it later.

Take the other half and mix with a two pound container of plain, low fat yogurt.

Serve a dollop of this mixture tossed with your dog's kibble.

 

 

Becky_R's notes: If you can't find lean ground beef, brown it first and drain off the fat. I was surprised at how little fiber was in brown rice, so that was why I added the lintels. They are high in fiber and protein. Red lentils cook quickly, which is whay I add them toward the end. If you can't find them, use another type of lentil, but add it to the pot earlier when you add the rice. I was tired of adding hamburger and rice, plus yogurt separately to the food bowls, so this is how the gruel recipe was born. Maybe you can suggest a better name for this recipe.

Edited September 16, 2010 by OwnedBySummer

[Guest hlpnhounds]

Thanks for sharing the puppy gruel recipe. I may do that just to switch things up a bit from the chicken mash we normally feed.

[rascalsmom]

We're home from the vet. I talked to her about Jack's diet, and she suggested first of all just adding a bit of Metamucil to his food. She explained that, from my description, it sounds like the large bowel isn't absorbing enough of the liquid from his diet. Since it's a relatively high-end food, it might not have enough fiber.

 

Then the technician poked her head in and said his stool sample showed coccidia AND hooks. So now we're going to worm him (and the girls, too), wait a few weeks, and THEN I will try the Metamucil. If that works, we know it's just a not-enough-fiber issue. If it doesn't work, we may have to try another food. She explained that the higher-end foods don't add many grains, because on the label it looks like 'fillers'...but that the grains are what add fiber and some dogs just need more. BTW, she told me that she feeds her dogs the Kirkland dog food. Interesting to know!

 

He also got two of his corns removed. (For the THIRD time since June!)

 

And I'm calling Merial, because the dogs have been on Heartgard and that is supposed to prevent hookworms....they will hopefully reimburse us for treating the hooks!

Edited September 16, 2010 by rascalsmom

[Guest LindsaySF]

I was going to suggest deworming with Panacur. Lots of unspecified stool issues are often solved by deworming. I'd bet his poop firms up a bit once you treat the hooks especially.

 

Rogan seems sensitive to grains and rice. We tried several foods before settling on Taste of the Wild Wetlands. His poops in the yard are perfect. He still gets loose poop on walks, but I think that's just him being excited/crazy/etc.

 

I have tried all sorts of foods with Teagan. Despite being dewormed before I got him, and being on heartguard meds, he still had hookworms a few times that needed to be treated. I now deworm all of my dogs every few months.

 

Teagan was on TOTW for a while too but his poops were still soft. Right now he's on a mixture of TOTW and Iams (yup, Iams, corn as the first ingredient and everything) and his poops are awesome. I believe it's the beet pulp high up in the ingredients that makes Iams so effective. His appetite is much better too. I have also purchased pure beet pulp from the feed store and mixed that in the kibble for some foster dogs, works pretty well.

 

Good luck!

[mychip1]

DH's boy, EZ has been on Low Residue (the recalled one) since we got him nearly five years ago for the same reason. He is now temporarily on another veterinary formula. I'll have to look up the name. My others have been able to eat a turkey based one and have no problem. It's about 10 bucks a bag cheaper than the low res for the 55 lb bag.

 

 

[OwnedBySummer]

Hooks make sense. Summer came with hooks, despite being treated upon arrival in the country with Panacur. Her poops were definitely pudding poops, yuck! I figured out it was hooks based on her bloodwork, it was the only thing which could be causing her slight anemia. So I had the vet test her poop and, yup, hooks. So... two doses of Drontal Plus and a month of diatomaceous earth in her food and she's fine and her poop is good. Her kibble doesn't seem to make much of a difference to her poop now that the hookworms are gone. If I mess with her food, I may get a loose poop once or twice, then she's fine again. Note that Heartgard and the like are not, I'm told, strong enough to treat a case of parasites but will hopefully prevent a re-infestation. Not sure how far you'll get with Merial -- I'll look forward to hearing their response.

[rascalsmom]

Hooks make sense. Summer came with hooks, despite being treated upon arrival in the country with Panacur. Her poops were definitely pudding poops, yuck! I figured out it was hooks based on her bloodwork, it was the only thing which could be causing her slight anemia. So I had the vet test her poop and, yup, hooks. So... two doses of Drontal Plus and a month of diatomaceous earth in her food and she's fine and her poop is good. Her kibble doesn't seem to make much of a difference to her poop now that the hookworms are gone. If I mess with her food, I may get a loose poop once or twice, then she's fine again. Note that Heartgard and the like are not, I'm told, strong enough to treat a case of parasites but will hopefully prevent a re-infestation. Not sure how far you'll get with Merial -- I'll look forward to hearing their response.

Well, I called Merial, and they were very nice, but they told me they'd have to call our vet. The vet's office told me I'd have to call Merial, and Merial says they have to call the vet. Hmmmm.....anyway, I didn't get the feeling that they would pay for Rascal and Ruby's treatment, and paying for Jack's treatment seems to be questionable at this point. But at any rate, it's worth a try. I have to check with the vet in a few days to see what's going to happen. If anything.

 

I, too, wonder if his problem hasn't been hooks all along. He did test positive for coccidia and giardia when we first brought him home, but in January he then had a negative fecal test....all seemed to be well then. But like the vet tech said, he could've just not been shedding eggs at that point. Who knows. I'd just like for his poop to get firmed up once and for all!

[Hubcitypam]

My first pick would be one of the foods with some beet pulp. I don't mind named by-products (as in "chicken by-products," "beef by-products") -- that's mostly stuff like organ meats, quite nutritious.

 

I've had the same experience as Hubcitypam -- sometimes, when all else fails, you throw a bag of IAMS (Adult, or Lamb & Rice) in the cart and you a happy, glossy dog with turds that roll. All dogs are different, tho.

. I'd give number 2 a whirl of those listed 'cause of the beet pulp being there --and higher up than on the list than #3.

[GeorgeofNE]

George had chronically loose poop when I got him. I had read something that said even if your dog has tested negative for parasites, if he's had loose poo since leaving the track (or farm!), go ahead and treat with Panacur D. So I did. Ta dahhh! Much better. Than I switched him to a beef based food, and he's had great poops ever since.