Need Help Crate Training A Non Food Motivated Hound

[KingsMom]

We are in a very unusual position and I don't want to bore everyone with the very lengthy details but what it comes down to is we have a girl who really doesn't like to be crated, is not food motivated at all and has messed in the house. We are taking her to the vet tomorrow to check for any medical issues. I am working to get her eating more and I really think she will come around but right now she is hardly eating anything.

 

If the issue of messing in the house is not medical then I'm not sure if it is SA or just behavioral. She REALLY likes to go for car rides and sometimes it seems that she will potty in the house just because you didn't take her with you. She will have to be crated tomorrow morning and I need to figure out a way to get her in there without traumatizing her. This is really important right now and I could sure use some advice. I'll be home all night tonight and will check back often. If you have other questions I need to answer to get advice I will respond quickly.

 

Again, I really appreciate any advice.

 

I know the rules... edited to add a photo! Here she is discovering herself in the mirror for the first time!

 

 

Thank you!

Edited September 18, 2010 by KingsMom

[greytpups]

Can you use a baby gate instead of a crate?

[Batmom]

She wouldn't potty in the house because you didn't take her, exactly .... but she might potty in the house because she got excited and thought she was going, but then she had to stay home, but then all that excitement made her have to pee. If you think that might be the problem, it can work in a pinch to get ready to go early, take her for a quick 10-minute walk, then bring her home and leave. You don't want to make a habit of it but in an emergency it works well.

 

I would crate her only if she doesn't fuss unduly in the crate. Fussing can lead to things like escape attempts, broken teeth, etc. -- I'd take pee on the rug any day, over those.

 

Assuming she doesn't fuss once she's in, muzzle if need be, one hand on collar to steer the front end, cheerful "In you go, please!", and PUSH from behind butt, don't pull collar. Once she's in, be sure to TAKE ANY COLLAR OFF!, "Good girl!", treat/Kong/whatever.

[Guest queenme2]

I had a an issue with Nina Pooping and peeing in the house. The first 6 months Nina was fine as far as using the bathroom and then I had to go out of town for a week, leaving her with my husband and son. And they said she would not eat and all she did was sit on spot on the couch. When I came back I thought it would get better but even when I went on a 40 minute tip to get food she'd leave a mess. I had never crated or locked Nina up before because she was sooo good.

 

But I couldn't take the nasty surprises anymore. So I put her in our bathroom and got 2 of those big plastic square mats that hold the large pee mats. and then I began to give here better treats. I'd cook real bacon and stuff the kong that with cheese and keep it in the freezer until we were going to leave. And when its was time to leave she would go to the bathroom with the mats and her Kong. the first week she did pee on the mats and then the second she stopped, the third week we stopped putting them down and just kept doing the treat.

 

Now when she gets out I give her these banana cookies she likes. My son likes his chewy and overcook the dogs slightly. When Nina gets out the bathroom I tell her to lay down in her spot in the livng room and then I place her cookie down. In two months she has been good

[KingsMom]

1. I can try to baby gate her in the kitchen but she has peed on the tile before. That's why I'm looking to crate instead. I could get some of the pee mats and baby gate her in the kitchen, we'll see...

 

2. We have taken her to the park let her run, pee, poop then brought her home and gone out to dinner and she messed in the house. So if it isn't medical I'm not sure that taking her out right before we leave will help.

 

3. A friend recommended that we try crating her for 24-48 hours all the time. Then when we are ready to take her out we get her out of the crate, take her outside, come back in and put her back in the crate. We can play with her when we come back in but then she will go back into the crate. She has had this method work with many fosters. Thoughts?

 

Thanks!!

[Guest gecko_foot]

1. I can try to baby gate her in the kitchen but she has peed on the tile before. That's why I'm looking to crate instead. I could get some of the pee mats and baby gate her in the kitchen, we'll see...

 

2. We have taken her to the park let her run, pee, poop then brought her home and gone out to dinner and she messed in the house. So if it isn't medical I'm not sure that taking her out right before we leave will help.

 

3. A friend recommended that we try crating her for 24-48 hours all the time. Then when we are ready to take her out we get her out of the crate, take her outside, come back in and put her back in the crate. We can play with her when we come back in but then she will go back into the crate. She has had this method work with many fosters. Thoughts?

 

Thanks!!

 

I agree with the person who said try crating for brief periods to see how she does. You might also want to video her while you're away so that you can see exactly what she's doing (whining, etc.). I understand why you would want to crate, and I applaud you for doing the vet check to rule medical issues out.

 

With regard to taking her out right before you leave, I would highly recommend doing it. Sometimes at the park there are a lot of distractions, and your girl may not pee/poop as much as she needs to in order to be empty. My grey will pee and poop multiple times in the morning, and I make sure to take him out right before I go. That way I can be fairly sure that he's "empty". That being said, if the accidents are due from stress, they may happen anyway.

 

I don't agree with crating her all the time if she's never been crated before. As someone said before, she might be seriously stressed since she doesn't know why you're putting her in there (and she isn't used to it). I would start with 5 or 10 minutes (short sessions) of putting her in the crate. What worked for me was putting Tumnus in the crate (with the door open) and making him stay in until he laid down and relaxed. Then I let him out, and we went on with our day. He's not highly food-motivated either, so I just ended up biting the bullet and putting him in the crate (because he would have been destructive otherwise). If you decide to crate, I would recommend muzzling your grey since she might gnaw the bars and injure herself.

 

Good luck!

[Batmom]

Would not crate her for 24-48 hours at a time -- honestly not sure what that would accomplish other than a confused dog with a lot of pent-up energy.

 

My angel Zema would have to go out within 20 minutes of getting home from an exciting outing like dog park.

 

If this is a long-term issue and not a one-time emergency (I thought it was when you first posted), then yes, you want to crate for brief periods while you're home. One thing that can help is to feed all meals in the crate. If that's not an option (or even if it is), start out by giving your command ("In you go, please" or whatever), insert dog in crate, "Good girl!" and treat even tho you did the inserting, and let her come right back out. Repeat a couple times in a row. Do that a couple times a day for a couple days.

 

When she'll go in on her own, without you inserting her, get a magazine, have her "in you go, please", "Good girl!" and treat and shut the door; you stay right there -- as in sit on the floor next to the crate -- and read a magazine. Don't talk to her, don't comfort her if she fusses a bit, just read your magazine. 3 minutes or when she's quiet, let her out. Repeat another time or two later that day or next day.

 

Next, put her in as before, shut door, and go sit somewhere else in the room .... then somewhere else in the house ... then out. Keep interspersing those times with times you ask her to go in and let her come right back out, times when you crate her for just a few minutes while you're home, etc. And feed her meals in there if at all possible.

 

Do the treat and meal thing even if she doesn't seem food motivated. Most dogs are, with the right delectable treat (freshly sauteed liver? hot dog slivers?), but some have to get the hang of it and that can take a little time.

[Guest bellenzo]

I've had success with baby gating and pee mats. If you get the kind that you can reuse, they're great. You might have to wash it everyday, but it's a lot cheaper than buying the disposable.

[KingsMom]

Thanks for all of the advice. I sure appreciate it. Since we're short on time we'll work with many of the suggestions. I really like the idea of letting her out when she has laid down and is relaxed. We'll work on that for sure. FWIW it's a bit of an emergency because we have to leave her alone tomorrow but it will also be a long term thing.

 

Tonight we're going to do our best to get her in the crate for overnight in our bedroom, where we will all be.

 

Will be back tomorrow night to update.

 

Thank you!

[KingsMom]

Turns out she does have some medical issues that are probably causing her to urinate in the house. Since she is feeling so terrible she has been crating pretty easily. As soon as she's feeling better we'll work on the crating more specifically. By then she may be more food motivated too. Thank you all for the responses. I sure appreciate it.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Have you done any alone training? The medical issues don't help, but if she has peed in the kitchen before too then it's likely not a crate issue, sounds more like SA to me.

[jenn8]

I don't know if you have tried this already but alone training and/or house training are essential and valuable first steps to take in acclimating your grey to their home. Crates are one of the tools that aid in this training but you do the actual training outside of the crate. Did your adoption give you any instruction on this? If not, we can help or a search on GreyTalk using either of those terms will give you lots of good information.

 

Don't listen to that vet or shut your dog in the bathroom.

Most dogs can learn to live in the house if they are trained to do so. The challenge can sometimes be in figuring out which of the many methods work best.

 

Jenn