How To Teach "stay" Or "wait"

[Guest aeroangie]

Hello everyone!

 

Just got my new E collar - the Gentle Trainer with 15 settings - and have begun working with Otis. He has the "come" command but how can you teach "stay" or "wait?" His back is extremely long so I can't imagine him sitting. I have been told that sitting is an uncomfortable position for most Grey's, especially if they are the large ones.

 

OK...so, the doorbell rings. I don't want him bolting to the door and trying to slip out beside a guest that isn't expecting this. Also, when I go out the front door, he stands at the dining room window and bangs the window with his muzzle when I am outside.

 

Any ideas on these behaviors? He is on that front door like white on rice, so this is something I want to control.

 

(Next, I will attempt to stop him for "hugging" people!" He's really sweet but I know could hurt someone. Then of course, the cat chasing stuff.)

 

THANKS!

[Guest NeroAmber]

I'm sure there are other ways- but I tought Nero slowly, with treats. He started off ust trying to grab it out of my hand, but I would jerk it away and say 'Wait', then put my hand back where it was- he soon learnt that he got the treat by NOT nuzzling my hand. I went from there to moving a foot away from him- if he moved before I said come, I put him back and moved off again til he got it. From there I just kept increasing the distance. He was more in tune with how I was looking at him though, than the command.

 

Amber was quicker on the uptake- but I used the same method. Slow but steady- there might be a quicker, easier way, but that's how I did it Good luck with it, anyway.

 

How is he with the e-collar? They're a touchy subject- mine would balk at it, they're very nervy.

[2greytgreys]

I started out inside teaching Ranger "wait" by using liver treats since those are his absolute favorite treat. He picked it up really quickly. Once he was responding well inside I started using it outside on walks. Where we live there are lots of people who have dogs and everyone seems to be walking them at the same time. Since Ranger isn't small dog friendly he gets very interested whenever a little dog gets near.

 

Using the "wait" command has worked really great with him. When we cross paths with a little dog I'll use the command (along with "leave it") and he will stand patiently while we wait for the other dog to pass.

 

All of my hounds have been really smart but not all of them wanted to listen when I told them something. I call it selective hearing.

 

Good luck with your training.

[Brindles]

First of all, GOOD FOR YOU for making an effort to teach this! I can't stress enough how important it is. A lot of greyhounds are lost because their owners fail to do so.

 

Second of all, did you go back in time 5 years and take my dog? Dazzle also rushed the front door, jumped on people, and was a bad cat zapper. He had one of the highest prey drives I've ever seen. Today he waits patiently at the front door, doesn't jump nearly as much, and gets along harmoniously with smaller critters. So just so you know, it can be done!

 

I'm not very good at putting into words how I trained my dogs to be polite, but I'll give it a shot. I've found with my dogs that the best way to teach "wait" was to do it at the back door every single time we go out for potty breaks. Everyone has to wait patiently before we go out. Mine don't sit, but when they were younger I would make them lie down. Once they did so patiently (and looked back up at me for permission) I would step out the door first and give them permission to follow. I am currently teaching my new puppy to do this, and he has learned pretty quickly that the faster he cooperates and calms down, the faster he gets to go outside. By the way, my hand signal for "wait" is just holding my hand up with my palm facing outward.

 

You can also teach this with treats. Tell the dog to sit or lie down, say wait + hand signal, and when he does so patiently, give him the treat. Repeat a few more times. Now when you say wait, back up a foot or two. Repeat a couple times. The better he does, the farther you can back up. I hope I'm making sense.

 

Once you've got those down, move on to the front door and do the same thing, except with a leash on this time as a precautionary measure. Do you have an entry hall? Maybe it would help to make a boundary several feet away from the door that he's not allowed to cross unless you say so. Mine have a similar boundary for the kitchen. It may help to have a friend ring the doorbell and come through the door over and over and over again for practice and to get him used to it. Invite your "guest" in, wait til he calms down, and then give him permission to visit. If he gets hyper, make him leave, and only allow him back when he's calm.

 

I hope that helps a bit. Let me know if you need clarification on anything.

[silverfish]

Um .. the 'e collar', what is it exactly? Not a shock collar, I hope?

 

I'd just like to say two things. Firstly, I'm not a fan of negative training methods, however 'gentle' the manufacturer says they are. And secondly, I really don't see how a completely gentle e collar is going to encourage your dog to stay unless you first teach him how. Seems to me all you'd do is confuse him.

 

IMHO, you'd do better with a clicker, but if you're going to try this collar, please try it on yourself first (around your neck, just as your dog would wear it) and go through the range of intensities and really think about how your greyhound is going to react to it.

[Guest gecko_foot]

 

Just got my new E collar - the Gentle Trainer with 15 settings - and have begun working with Otis. He has the "come" command but how can you teach "stay" or "wait?" His back is extremely long so I can't imagine him sitting. I have been told that sitting is an uncomfortable position for most Grey's, especially if they are the large ones.

 

 

Sitting isn't really uncomfortable; it's just awkward. The trick is to get your grey to associate good things with sitting. Have some high value treats ready for him when he sits and praise him like crazy. I use the mold/model method with Tumnus, but different methods work for different dogs. Even so, once Tumnus figured out that sitting would get him a hot dog, his rear hit the ground as soon as I brought them out.

 

The way I teach the "wait" command is to put the dog behind a visible line and tell him to wait. Take a few steps back, say "OK" (release command), and give him a treat. If he breaks position, just put him back in the spot (no scolding) and try it again. Give him lots of praise and a nice high-value treat when he stays. I use this command for Tumnus especially at the door, and he knows that he's not allowed to leave until I give him the ok. I don't necessarily have to go through the door first, but he has to wait for me to tell him when to head out.

 

I hope this helps. Good luck!

[Guest MyBoys]

Just wondering, what is an "e" collar with 15 different settings ????????

[Batmom]

Ditch the e-collar and take a clicker training or similar class or two with your dog.

[cleptogrey]

follow batmom's advice. you and your dog will learn much more and be happier.

[kudzu]

Try Sue Ailsby's Training Levels. Link

 

ETA: Why did you buy that e-collar? Is your dog deaf?

Edited September 11, 2010 by kudzu

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

An E collar is a shock collar. Some have a vibrating setting that most certainly does not hurt the dog. Those vibrating settings can be incredible for just getting a dog's attention, and especially for a dog that is deaf.

 

With the exception of training dogs not to run deer or similar deadly activities, I can't see myself using one, but to each his own.

 

You can teach stay in a "down" instead of a sit, or even in a stand.

[Guest Jubilee251]

I Googled the Gentle Trainer, and it's a vibration collar - no shocks. I'm guessing the intensity of the vibration can be adjusted - it doesn't sound terrible, I imagine at a low setting it would be like tapping your dog's neck or head to get his attention. But I'll stick to clicker training.

 

For wait, I don't make my dogs sit. They do a stand-stay. When the dog is standing in front of you, facing you, hold your hand up (palm out like you're stoppping traffic) and say "WAIT" or "STAY." Take a step back. If he follows, move back into the original position and into the dog's space so he has to back up as well. If he stays in place while you step back, click and treat.

 

You have to build slowly, and increase the time and distance you're away slowly. Once you've mastered one step, take two steps, then three, etc.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Jubilee251

[jetcitywoman]

I think the suggestions here are for two different things. Some people have described "wait", like waiting to be allowed out the door. Others have described "off" or "leave it", which is having something yummy nearby and learning not to take it unless invited. Just in case the OP is confused, I thought I'd clarify that.

 

We taught Capri "wait" at the front door every time we are about to go walkies. Put her into position, which is a spot not too close to the door, tell her to wait and hold my hand up like saying "stop" in front of her face. Take a step back. If she comes forward, put her back into position and do it again. If she waits, then say "okay" and her reward is to go outside. It takes patience, but the dog does learn it. It's very important for training something like this that you use your body/energy to put the dog where you want him, rather than pulling on the leash or collar. The dog automatically moves back when you crowd him, so he learns that faster than being pulled on. Pulling on the leash just seems to confuse him in this kind of situation.

 

At the same time we taught her wait at the door, we also taught her wait for her meals. This also helped her to learn it. Later, after she learned "sit" very well, we changed the meal routine to sit and wait. Now she just knows the routine and often sits without being asked.

 

And now that we have Ajax, it's a little confusing. She sits and tries to wait, and we're teaching him to wait for his meal but he's sooooo excited. His antics often distract her and she breaks her sit/wait, so we have to put her back. He sees her sit and knows that he should probably do that too, but doesn't understand exactly what it is. Sometimes he'll down himself. All we really want right now is for him to reliably stand and wait for his meal, and later we'll add sit.

Edited September 11, 2010 by jetcitywoman

[Guest eaglflyt]

In my opinion, you should teach your pup a down/stay or a sit/stay. And, neither of those should EVER require a shock collar. I know it can be daunting when you have a door darter, but it is quite simple with effective clicker training ... and it's NOT difficult.

Our newest foster is a champion door darter and jumper when he's excited. In only a week of training, both of these issues are nearly completely a thing of the past ... along with being the worst leash puller I have ever met! The leash pulling is almost totally gone, too!

 

I, personally, would never use a shock collar when there were so many other humane training methods available.

 

The NeverSayNever greyhound blog of Jennifer's is amazing with loads of information on greyhound training. Here's the first of 4 explanatory posts with videos on teaching greyhounds a down stay. Please give this a try and ditch the shock collar.

 

Here's the link to excellent instruction for greyhound downs/stays. Start at the downs 101 (scroll down a bit) and then work your way up.

 

Good Luck and please return the shock collar. It is not necessary and will not be a good experience for your pup.

 

Also seek out a local trainer that uses humane training methods like clicker training ... no leash pulls, no shock collars, no kicks or hits!

 

Shelly in OK

Edited September 11, 2010 by eaglflyt

[Guest tinams8]

I have found the best thing is to teach doors separately from Wait. To keep a very boisterous dog away from the door is nearly impossible at first, so I start with a baby gate blocking the entryway until they are a little more under control. It's best to start with easy and less challenging waits. Not charging the door is probably the hardest.

 

Every time your dog(s) go in or out of a doorway, say "Wait" and open the door slowly... as soon as the dog moves even a bit, close the door and start over. do this until you can open the door all the way. Then say whatever your release word is, I use "Ok." at the same time, indicate that they can go. Theoretically, they learn to freeze anytime they are near an open door, and never go out without an "Ok."

 

I also do this with the car, and the gate.

 

When visitors come I would try to get the dog to lie down and stay, with lots and lots of treats. I've heard of tossing the dogs treats while it is down and repeating the command to let them know they are on track. Again, if you can start with less challenging, set up visitors, like someone who lives there, it's easier because you can be focused on the dog rather than the visitor at first.

[Batmom]

The problem with the collar remains, even if it is only vibration -- these things are extremely difficult to use well. What is it a signal FOR? Is it punishment? Punishment is usually counterproductive when training a dog; more productive to reward the behavior you want and simply ignore behaviors you don't want -- you want to teach the dog TO do something (for example, teach waiting a distance from the door rather than trying to teach not rushing the door). Is it to get the dog's attention? Your voice and hands are more flexible tools, and if you've started a training session and the dog's attention is elsewhere, there's a different problem..... Is it a signal that the dog did something right? Won't be effective unless the dog really likes the feel of it.

 

For "stay," I find teaching a stand-stay first works best with some pups. 6" away, 9" away, 12" away .... Start infinitesimally small.

 

For things like staying a distance away from a door, visual cues are a huge help -- carpet vs. linoleum, threshold bar, etc. You could put some white masking tape on the floor if need be, until the behavior is well established.

[Guest aeroangie]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. About the collar, I use the vibrations to get his attention. It taught him to come when called within 15 minutes and he is almost 100% on this now. He can even be inside the house and I can call while signaling and OUT he comes through the pet door. We live on a river where there is lots of wild animals - otter, deer, racoons, skunks, foxes just to name a few. Otis cannot chase these animals, and the vibrating collar makes him come right back to me. Also, I have other cats that use the same pet door, and he would chase them out of it. With the collar on, I have been testing him today going out the pet door and then calling him right back in. It just makes sense for our lifestyle.

 

Also, we spend a lot of time on our yacht, and when we go to port, he must learn to stay or wait most importantly but if he did jump off onto the dock, it could be a bad situation since we are in towns and also in unfamiliar places if I couldn't get him to come back. He is a puppy still so it's hard to get his attention, especially when he gets distracted. I guess people have to decide what they think will work for them. It supposed to only take two weeks and then it says you won't need the collar anymore if you do the training correctly. Otis will be going to Ocracoke and Hatteras from 9/23/ - 9/26. I don't want to keep him leashed on the boat or always inside the cabin. Frequently, we visit places frequently like Cape Lookout or Shackleford Banks where there are the wild Banker ponies. Many of the uninhabited islands are great places to let him really run, but I needed a way to teach him quickly to come back. As soon as he feels that vibration, even if he cannot hear my voice, he knows he will get the treat when he comes right back. Finally, my husband recently had a knee replacement so we had to teach Otis not to jump on him. I think many of you are talking about old technology "shock" collars. I would NEVER do that to this dog, or any dog. But yes, my husband tried out all the settings on himslef, even the highest ones that will shock but I will only use the vibration settings. Personally, I think it's a great new piece of technology.

 

It works b/c you get the dog to associate treats and love and praise with the vibrations.

[Guest Jubilee251]

Uh...what about a leash?

[Guest chinamom]

We taught Stella to 'wait' by saying the word and always making sure that we go in and out of doorways before her.....also, she must wait before jumping into the car and especially out of the car.....also by putting a treat closeby and making her wait, using the word.

 

We almost always use the hand signal as well. She doesn't even need to hear the word if we use our hand...but then, she's a very well mannered girl.

[Guest aeroangie]

Jubilee - we don't use a leash at home as we live on many acres and it's all fenced - unless we are training him. The only access he would have to get out is through my front door and that's if the front gate happened to be open and he shot out at the right moment. Of course we use a leash when we travel. On the boat however, if there are swells, a leash isn't a good idea for obvious reasons. He learned quickly however and layed right down when seas got rough. I have used a harness and secured him to the upper helm station and this works well since he is tied from up above and can't get tangled but I cannot do this while we are underway. Also, when visitors go in and out (on the boat) he tried to shoot out, especially when we are docked!

 

I have some unique situations but, this is my third Grey so I am sure we will figure it out with time. I was hoping to speed up the training USING VIBRATIONS.....not shock!!!!

 

Thanks for the links and training tips everyone!

[Guest LindsaySF]

You don't need a vibration collar to teach recall, sit, down, stay, or wait. You just need to be consistent and made the training worthwhile and rewarding for the dog. The collar is likely to confuse him more than help IMO.

 

To train not rushing the door, you need to teach stay/wait/sit (whatever one you end up using) *before* any guests come over. I would place a rug or a dog bed by the door and teach him to reliably go to it and either stay or lay down on command. Use treats or petting, whatever is rewarding for him. Only once he has that down pat, would I introduce the doorbell, and eventually actual guests, into the equation. I would also have him on a leash so you can control him and make sure he doesn't bolt out the door.

 

What commands does he know? How did you teach them? Have you tried teaching him the wait command?

[Guest aeroangie]

I have taught him to "come" and now to "leave it!" I like the idea of putting his bed by the door - thanks! He sometimes will "go to your bed" now so that will be the next thing we work on. We are also working on the jumping with "off" and he is doing much better. I watched a video on this and a man demonstrated how to hold their front paws when they jump up, explaining that most dogs don't like when we hold their paws anyway (not squeezing them or anything before anyone gets riled!) So, then the dog will want his paws back, and will quickly learn not to jump. Also, I read about setting up the noisy cans strung together on the countertop, making sure he pulls them down on the floor to take care of the counter surfing. I am going to do that this week- away from my other dog though. I can't use the shake cans to get his attention because it scares the bejesus out of my timid Chinese Crested. That worked, but unfortunately wasn't good for my CC so we had to abandon that idea.

 

Oh yeah..last night, we had about 4 deer in the yard and Otis had an absolute fit, jumping on the windows. We had to close the pet door and take him away from the windows. Being a puppy still, I have to deal with his "short term memory" more than anything else. Also, I believe it makes a difference that this dog never raced, because he has probably had no training of any kind. I don't mind it, because I know he has no baggage either, but he is a lot different than my first two that had actually raced in both age and background. I also know that Otis lived in kennel - like the igloo type - outside - more than half of his life! In fact, he had weird long red tinged hair - the result from living outside. He isn't afraid of rain or storms or anything really. His coat has returned to normal now - solid black and very shiny!

 

As I tried to convey, we live in a large and open area with wild animals and we visit islands where he can really run (which he LOVES!) The collar will be used to get him to come back and that was my main reason for purchasing something so expensive! This will be almost impossible without it as he loves to chase birds, and DID in fact catch one somehow. I couldn't believe it!!! As you all know, a Grey will not listen when they are chasing, or when they have gotten out of earshot. I really can't understand why people are so closed minded about using a newer piece of technology???

 

I'd love to hear from anyone that has trained a Grey that was this young and hasn't raced. It is a different experience than I had with my other two dogs. Otis will be a year old in about 6 weeks.

 

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated though. I have a few challenges so will be here a while!

[Guest eaglflyt]

You will probably find the vibrations will lose their effectiveness. I would not rely on the collar on either vibration or shock settings. Positive training methods are more humane and much more reliable. E collars do have a significant failure rate and I don't understand how vibration can be a positive sensation. A tolerance will most surely develop. What will you do then?

 

I just know there are other methods without the *tolerance* problem and without the use of vibrations to get attention.

 

Best wishes.

[Guest aeroangie]

You will probably find the vibrations will lose their effectiveness. I would not rely on the collar on either vibration or shock settings. Positive training methods are more humane and much more reliable. E collars do have a significant failure rate and I don't understand how vibration can be a positive sensation. A tolerance will most surely develop. What will you do then?

 

I just know there are other methods without the *tolerance* problem and without the use of vibrations to get attention.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Rattling loud cans isn't positive either, is it? We have a friend that goes boating with us and they also have a big dog aboard. The collar has worked very well for them and I am confident it could work well for Otis. IMHO, it already has since it has taught him to "come" and neither of my other two Grey's ever reliably learned this. Therefore, they didn't get to go on our boating trips (far away from home anyway) very often and I always had to have a housesitter when I left. That's a shame when you live/visit places they can run without worry for their safety.

 

But hey - if it quits working, I will have wasted some money, that's all. It is NOT inhumane as I am NOT shocking my dog. Since people are passing opinions without having tried it, I remain unconvinced that I have made a bad investment as of yet...sorry. If you want to share some information or studies about the failure rate, I would love to read that information.

 

According to my Chinese Crested, the can rattling is inhumane....and speaking of developing a "tolerance" - Otis opens his mouth for the water bottle now! LOL! He's really unphased by water I guess, after living half his life outside in Arkansas. He doesn't mind rain and will play in the water a lot. Therefore, he is going to be a great "Nauti-dog!" I am working still on teaching him to swim in the pool. I have managed to show him how to exit by himself! At the beach, he lays right down in the edge of the surf happily. This is good since he is a black dog! My other two didn't like water like this at all.

 

When I figure out how to post some pics, I will! I REALLY do appreciate everyone's opinions even if I may not agree! I love to read and research, especially about my pets!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I believe you are misunderstanding people's issues with the collar. Let me try explaining it another way...

 

A friend of mine works with hunting dogs. He uses the shock collar for them. When they go hunting, his hounds are wonderful. They have manners, they point, they retrieve, etc. Now my friend told me one day he didn't understand why his hounds were so unruly at home, but when they were out working, they did exactly what he wanted. The difference was the collar was on them. He no longer had to use the collar to get their attention, they simply learned to fear the collar. When the collar was not on them, they didn't respect him enough to listen to him.

 

It all boils down to what you have already alluded to with the noise aversion. There is fear-based training (some call negative reinforcement, but this is an incorrect definition), and there is positive reinforcement based training. Negative reinforcement actually means to "The removal of a discouraging stimulus associated with a particular behavior with the result that it is more likely to be repeated", a collar is not exactly this. What would be is say an electronic mat on the floor that if the hound steps on the mat, it shocks the hound. In order to remove the negative stimulus, the hound must leave the area of the mat. Electronic fences fall under the category of negative reinforcement training.

 

 

You can lead by fear, or by respect. In most cases respect lasts much longer, as well as you have the opportunity for a better relationship. You have a puppy, you have a large piece of land, you have opportunity for an injury to occur on nearly a daily basis. I understand the imperative nature of your training, but you cant take the "easy" way out and expect long term results. You wanted a puppy, and that is what you have.

 

Personally I feel that the positive reinforcement method of training is a much healthier way to train. There are times when the "correction" method is called for (when the hound is doing something that is detrimental to itself or others), but I attempt to train in the positive manner. Yes it takes much longer, and no I don't deal with puppies, but there really should be no difference as to the maturity of the hound and the methods used.

 

For the record, if you have a vibrating collar, I don't see it as inhumane. I do feel that it is still a fear-based training tool, but you do know your hound. There are some hounds that can handle a rougher hand than others. I would just worry about the story I shared above. Your hound may get used to the collar and not listen nearly as well as you expect when not wearing the collar.

 

You do have guts to get a greyhound puppy, thats for sure! Good luck.

 

Chad