Something Is Wrong With Legs' Back Legs

[Guest caiteag]

I am not sure how old he is.. but something about the way his back end is dropping reminds me of Quinn when his LS was getting bad... I would definitely be looking for some kind of nerve problem in his "lower" back.

[Batmom]

No advice, just hoping you can get to the bottom of things. He's so handsome .

[HJsM]

Another thing that sounds "too easy". It almost seems like he wants to scratch or itch something really bad...sarcoptic mange? You can't see it and it's not contagious. Does he scratch at himself while laying down at all? Stretching and reaching, I am .but I want it to be something "easy" to fix. If that is what it is, Revolution is a wonder product to get that under control.

[RileysLegacy]

I am not sure how old he is.. but something about the way his back end is dropping reminds me of Quinn when his LS was getting bad... I would definitely be looking for some kind of nerve problem in his "lower" back.

I was thinking LS too... my mom's 12 yr old greyhound has it, and this looks similar. But Legs is only 5.

 

Another thing that sounds "too easy". It almost seems like he wants to scratch or itch something really bad...sarcoptic mange? You can't see it and it's not contagious. Does he scratch at himself while laying down at all? Stretching and reaching, I am .but I want it to be something "easy" to fix. If that is what it is, Revolution is a wonder product to get that under control.

No, he doesn't scratch or itch other times, he only does that thing where he wants to bite at himself when his legs get weak. I checked him over really well, have bathed him 2x, and he definitely doesn't have fleas either. He is very bald, but his skin doesn't appear irritated or anything.

 

Thanks so much for all the ideas everyone, I will mention all of them to my vet and hopefully we can figure this out.

[Guest KennelMom]

Hmmm...I've never seen anything quite like that. There's definitely something that's bothering him though. I would lean away from it being an endurance/fitness level issue...those dogs tend to just drag and drag and drag to a stop, they don't usually turn around and try to fiddle with their hind end. I know one of the first things a vet looks at when considering spinal cord/nerve issues is whether the feet are knuckling under, which his don't seem to be doing in the video. One thing you can also do is, with the dog standing in a natural position, flip his back toes under (as if they were knuckling under) and see if he tries to right the foot and place it in the proper position. That's a pretty common, quick neurological test the vet will do. Does he have any trouble getting up from a laying down position? Going up stairs? Does he jump on the bed/sofa?

 

 

Have you done an xray of the hips yet? A good set of xrays would probably be my first step. Maybe print out the info from Dr. Stack's site on lumbosacral stenosis for your vet.

Edited September 16, 2010 by KennelMom

[maggiespet]

No advise - just hugs to you and Legs.

[fsugrad]

I don't have any advice either--just sending hugs and prayers. I think it's great that you got a video of what Legs' does on his walks...should be very helpful to the vet.

[carronstar]

No advice, just lots of good thoughts and prayers for Legs.

[SAVED2]

Stop the walks , he is in pain.

[RileysLegacy]

Hmmm...I've never seen anything quite like that. There's definitely something that's bothering him though. I would lean away from it being an endurance/fitness level issue...those dogs tend to just drag and drag and drag to a stop, they don't usually turn around and try to fiddle with their hind end. I know one of the first things a vet looks at when considering spinal cord/nerve issues is whether the feet are knuckling under, which his don't seem to be doing in the video. One thing you can also do is, with the dog standing in a natural position, flip his back toes under (as if they were knuckling under) and see if he tries to right the foot and place it in the proper position. That's a pretty common, quick neurological test the vet will do. Does he have any trouble getting up from a laying down position? Going up stairs? Does he jump on the bed/sofa?

 

 

Have you done an xray of the hips yet? A good set of xrays would probably be my first step. Maybe print out the info from Dr. Stack's site on lumbosacral stenosis for your vet.

 

I tried the knuckling under thing when this first happened, and he flips his foot right back over. He never seems to have trouble getting up, doing stairs (though I don't have any, so I've only seen him do them a couple times), and jumps right into the back of my car, on the couch, and on my bed which is pretty high.

 

He is very playful, LOVES going for walks, can't wait to get out the door. He will be only getting short potty walks until Saturday, though. I emailed the video to my vet last night, so keep your fingers crossed that it helps her figure out what's wrong. Xrays are definitely the next step, and I just printed the article on LS.

 

Thanks again everyone.

[NevadasMom]

I am not sure how old he is.. but something about the way his back end is dropping reminds me of Quinn when his LS was getting bad... I would definitely be looking for some kind of nerve problem in his "lower" back.

My thoughts exactly. Look at the way his back end drops & he is snapping at something. I think there is a nerve being compressed back there.

[gryhnd_adoptee]

My first girlie developed degenerating disks in her neck, and compression of the nerves in her spine from them. She also had some calcification points on the tips of her vertebra which caused her additional pain. This was all determined by x-ray after she developed wobbly rear legs. We managed with deramaxx and glucosamine, kept her activity level low, and had acupuncture done to help relax the muscles along her spine which became extra tense when she was particularly bothered by the pain.

 

She would also bite at her front legs from time to time like she was after bugs which were crawling on her. The vet said it was because the nerves would sometimes be particularly tingly, which made her feel like something was crawling on her. We also limited her from jumping up and down on things as it seemed to aggravate her, and also heavily padded the bottom of stairs to help cushion her landing when she got to the bottom.

 

I would certainly limit activity. If it is a spinal issue, you might have to make a lifestyle change to help keep him more comfortable.

 

Keep us updated.

[krissn333]

Lucy, watching that video it looks like he's got a hitch in his giddyup. My biggest guess would be that his hips are out of alignment. Sutra's tailbone area gets out of alignment and he will turn his knees and feet outward as he walks, much like Legs is doing in the video. Do you have access to chiropractic? I would definitely look into it. Sutra gets adjusted every few weeks and it makes a big difference. When he needs it, his hind end gets a little bit slumpy as he walks.

 

I would get xrays of the hip area while you're at the vet, but look into the chiropractic.

 

You can also manipulate his back legs at home while he's laying down to see if he's experiencing pain with the joint (ie, maybe the ball of the femur is not in the right spot, etc.). Another thing you can do is stretch his lower back for him. Sit in a chair and place him sideways in front of you. Put your knee/thigh up under his tuck, so he's kind of lifted up a bit in that area. take your thumb and middle finger and place them on either side of the spine just above the hip bones and gently "pull" toward his tail. I do this for Sutra and for Fritz. Watch your knee though...some boy dogs don't appreciate their "area" being smooshed and they might yipe a little.

 

I hope you get it figured out. Like I said I really think he's got a catch in his hip.

[Rustyroo]

I'm just throwing this out there, but I wonder if acupuncture would help.

[silverfish]

I agree with the 'hitch in his giddyup' - it was the first thing I noticed, even before the biting started. It does look odd, and it does look as if there's either pain, or some kind of tingling or phantom pain. Have you examined the parts of him he appears to be biting at? I'd be doing a very thorough look over his skin and gently feeling for spasms in his muscles, and include the back legs, especially the left. At first it looked like cramp, but I've never seen a dog bite at cramp, though it seems reasonable, in a way, that they might.

 

But I have to disagree with those who suggested any kind of manipulation. Until you know what's going on, I would not be pulling him about. If it is a pinched nerve, or joint misalignment, you could make things a whole lot worse. Back issues need professional treatment, and if there's any suspicion of LS or arthritis in the spine or hips, or even a very mild FCE, I'd leave well alone. JMO.

 

The only time I've seen one of mine do something like that, by the way, is when there's something on them - wasp, fly, bramble, etc - that's why I suggest a good thorough 'once over'. Oh, and they've done it when they have something dangling after a poop, too. Just thinking aloud now .. does he have tapeworm? Or could he have something irritating his bowel? Does he do this after a poop?

[robinw]

That's how phene reacts to flies and mosquitoes. He hates them and becomes very dramatic whenever one is near him.

[Guest nikkikaye]

just a thought- do you have a veterenary orthopedic in town there? I would take advantage of that resource right away if it is available to you (usually wont cost you more than a regular vet visit). Otherwise, maybe it's worth joining the Ohio State Greyhound Wellness group for $99 annual fee to send them your video (and maybe more) to see if you can narrow down the field of possible diagnosis with greyhound experts and find out whats going on quicker. just a thought. good luck to you and your guy.

[kudzu]

just a thought- do you have a veterenary orthopedic in town there? I would take advantage of that resource right away if it is available to you

I totally agree. Have gone this route a couple times. Am about to again so you know it must have been worthwhile the previous times. A good vet orthopod gives a much more thorough exam than almost any GP vet. An ortho could help narrow down whether this is orthopedic, neurologic, or some combo of both as is often the case with spine related issues. And she/he could also help ID a problem as none of those but instead more likely to fall in the internal med spectrum.

 

We have come out cheaper for giving the GP vets a few tries and then going the specialist route. Saved us a lot of wasted time, worry, stress & money.

 

FWIW, it looks neurological to me but hard to tell from the vid. My best bet would be spine related causing nerve pain & possible weakness. Could be any of a great variety of things though. Hope you find an answer & some help soon. In the meantime, I hope the walks can continue even if more limited in nature.

 

ETA: Though I have used acupuncture, chiro & massage therapy with my dogs, I would definitely agree with the suggestion to find the root problem before choosing a therapy involving manipulation.

Edited September 17, 2010 by kudzu

[ShantisMom]

Does he always walk that crooked? On the video his left rear is crossing over under his body. Something is not right in the back legs. It does look like there might be pain or a strange sensation. Let us know what the vet says.

[BatterseaBrindl]

Most dogs walk a bit crooked, but he is very, very crooked.

He reminds me of my aged & arthritic GSD who drops her hips. She is nearly 14 and walks straighter than he does.

 

I have not seen a lot of lame dogs, but if he was one of my horses I'd call the vet.

Sooner, rather than later.

Definitely something going on in his Left Hind.

[joejoesmom]

just a thought- do you have a veterenary orthopedic in town there? I would take advantage of that resource right away if it is available to you (usually wont cost you more than a regular vet visit). Otherwise, maybe it's worth joining the Ohio State Greyhound Wellness group for $99 annual fee to send them your video (and maybe more) to see if you can narrow down the field of possible diagnosis with greyhound experts and find out whats going on quicker. just a thought. good luck to you and your guy.

Just wanted to let you know that Dr. Couto at OSU insists that it is not necessary to join the group via the website to get a consult. E-mail and phone consults are still no charge but they would appreciate a donation if you can afford it. I'm sure they would want to see x-rays. OSU does have excellent orthopedic specialists but they are not part of the no-charge greyhound health and wellness program. Here is contact info:

 

Here is info on how to contact Dr. Couto and his team. The email or phone consult is free, however a few people have been told they must sign up for the website ($50) and submit the request that way. Dr. Couto tells me that this is not true. However, if you are a member of their website, please submit your request that way because it will automate things and make record keeping for them easier. Certain chemo drugs are free; you would need to pay to have them administered.

 

Greyhound Health and Wellness Program

Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine

601 Vernon Tharp Street

Columbus, Ohio 43210

Phone: (614) 247-6757 or (614) 247-8490

Email: greyosu@osu.edu

Website: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/GHWP.htm (registration and fee now required to get full access to this site)

 

This email goes to the team. If Dr. Couto is traveling, you may get a quicker answer from one of his team members. Drs. Marin and Zaldivar typically respond to greyhound owners. The consult is free but if you can afford to support the program please do so. You can sign up for full access to the website ($99 per calendar year) or donate through the giving page on the website. If you decide to donate, you can double your money by giving through the Greyhound Project. Just go to this website and scroll down to the appropriate donation button: http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/donate.shtml. They will match the funds that you donate.

 

The Team:

 

Dr. Couto, Department Head, Greyhound Medicine, Oncology and Hematology

Dr. Lili Marin, Greyhound Health and Oncology

Dr. Sara Zaldivar, Greyhound Health and Oncology

Dr. William Kisselberth, Oncology

Dr. Cheryl London, Oncology

Dr. Cristina Iazbik, Blood Bank Director and Hematologist

Dr. Bridget Urie, Oncology Resident

Dr. Matt Sherger, Oncology Resident

Dr. Joelle Fenger, Oncology Resident

Dawn Hudson, Vet Tech

Ashley DeFelice, Vet Tech

Stacey Gallant, Vet Tech

 

Drs Marin and Zaldivar are originally from Spanish speaking countries. If you have trouble understanding them over the phone, you might ask for one of the other vets or vet techs to “translate”.

 

Dr. Couto's direct email is:

couto.1@osu.edu

His phone number is also 614-247-6757. If he is in town, he typically returns emails in the early hours of the morning.

 

You should know that (in my humble opinion) they need more staff. Unfortunately finances do not permit it at this time. They do 20 to 30 greyhound consults a day along with all of their "in canine" patients. Depending on their workload there may be a wait for the consultation. If you are contacting them on an emergency basis, please let them know.

If you want to make an appointment to be seen in person/canine, you can call the main number to set up a date/time. The main number for the veterinary hospital is 614-292-3551.

 

If you decide to visit OSU please contact me. I may be able to put you up in a local home, provide moral support, or just help with logistics:

 

Finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

 

Jane

[RileysLegacy]

He only walks crooked like that when he is starting to hurt. Before that you would never know anything was wrong. I emailed the video to my vet, she wants to do xrays of his spine and hips. He is going to see her tomorrow, but won't be able to get xrays until Tues. I appreciate all the responses. I will definitely email Dr Couto if needed, he was helpful when Riley had osteo. BTW, Legs is 5.

[RileysLegacy]

I just had a thought, Legs is from Arizona, could it be VF?

[Remolacha]

If he's spent any time in AZ, definitely test for VF.

[Guest Javasmom]

One other thing, and I am not a vet, just a horse person, horses get a syndrome called Tying Up. Here is a link to a description of the disease. I am not sure if there is anything similar in dogs, but it is worth a thought and maybe a mention to the vet. I have seen horses that have been affected by this and they also have a hitch in their git along when they first get an attack and the symptoms can vary in severity. It may be a long shot, so long it is way off course, but I thought I'd throw it out there for consideration.

 

Hugs! Keep us posted!