Laryngeal Paralysis And Hemangiosarcoma

[3greytjoys]

Hi,

 

My (almost) 9 year old broodie has been a fairly loud panter since her adoption 2 years ago. Vet told me not to worry about it 2 years ago.

My girl has been having increasing labored breathing over the past couple of months.

 

Vet's recent scoping diagnosis: Laryngeal Paralysis.

One side is completely paralyzed, and the other is almost completely paralyzed, just "barely moves."

Same surgical visit: Small mass removed (within 1-2 weeks of surfacing on lower leg). Diagnosis: Cancer; Hemangiosarcoma.

Since it is an aggressive, blood driven cancer, it's likely festering elsewhere; anywhere blood vessels extend throughout the body. We know it frequently targets heart and spleen.

 

Our surgery challenge: My girl is an "excessive bleeder." Fortunately, the vet was finally able to stop her bleeding enough to let her come home. She began internal bleeding 30 hours after surgery while at home. (This was at night, after vets and compounding pharmacies were closed!). Unfortunately, I was unable to obtain Aminocaproic Acid (to help prevent Greyhound bleedout) during this time. Thankfully, my girl improved over the next 12-24 hours. This time, we were very lucky.

 

I am interested in hearing from anyone who has personal experience with Laryngeal Paralysis and/or Hemangiosarcoma in Greyhounds. My poor girl already has 3 potentially fatal strikes against her, even if we consider the extremely risky LP surgery! I'm especially curious about life expectancy re: this level of Laryngeal Paralysis, without surgery. I know every case is different, but hoping someone can share their story.

 

Thank you...

[Batmom]

Was the hemangiosarcoma a cutaneous (surface) mass? Those don't often metastasize; surgical removal is usually curative. I can't help with LP but I know some others here can. Hugs and best luck to you and your girl.

[Guest MyCody]

My heart goes out to you and your precious girl. Our Cody had LP and at the same level as you describe. He was 12 when diagnosed, scared to death of being at the vets for anything so we decided not to do the surgery. He was on Rimadyl and tramadol for his disc problem and we opted to just make him comfortable. The most important thing according to our vet is to keep them cool so we had the AC going all the time. We lost him a year ago April at the age of 13 but it was not from the LP. He had developed a mass in his chest.

 

Good luck with your girl.

 

Terry

[MP_the4pack]

My Onyx was 11 when she had the tieback surgery. She will celebrate her 15th birthday next month.

 

She does pant a lot but it doesn't seem to interfer with her breathing. She goes out for walks...same distance we've always done. She does get more tired now but heck, she is going to be 15.

 

We've had to watch what she eats to prevent aspirate pneumonia, but you need to worry about that without surgery too.

 

I opted for the surgery because my sister's lab also had LP and towards the end it was awful. So many times she sounded like she was on death's door, struggling to breathe. I did not want to go thru that.

 

I also lost a dog to hemangio. It was of the spleen. She was gone within hours of finding out. Not a hint something was wrong until then.

 

 

Good luck in your decision.

[MerlinsMum]

I have no experience with LP, but I wanted to send you some hugs :grouphug

[momtogeorge]

Tracey...I hope someone has some very encouraging and helpful experiences for you and Shasta.

[3greytjoys]

Was the hemangiosarcoma a cutaneous (surface) mass? Those don't often metastasize; surgical removal is usually curative. I can't help with LP but I know some others here can. Hugs and best luck to you and your girl.

 

 

No. Unfortunately, the (blood vessel) cancer appeared to extend beyond the surgical margin. I was told masses will continue to recur and is likely already elsewhere in her body.

 

We are still hopeful that she'll be with us a lot longer... At this point, the LP symptoms are the most restrictive to her quality of life. I'm trying to keep her calm, cool, restricting her exercise, and watching her like a hawk when she's eating or drinking (she coughs and vomits). Vet said to keep her near our local ER hospital in the event she goes into breathing/suffocating crisis and needs their oxygen tank(!).

 

Thank you for your reply. She's the best girl on the planet (besides everyone else's hounds on this list!).

 

[3greytjoys]

Tracey...I hope someone has some very encouraging and helpful experiences for you and Shasta.

As always, thank you for your wonderful support (off line), Janet.

[3greytjoys]

My heart goes out to you and your precious girl. Our Cody had LP and at the same level as you describe. He was 12 when diagnosed, scared to death of being at the vets for anything so we decided not to do the surgery. He was on Rimadyl and tramadol for his disc problem and we opted to just make him comfortable. The most important thing according to our vet is to keep them cool so we had the AC going all the time. We lost him a year ago April at the age of 13 but it was not from the LP. He had developed a mass in his chest.

 

Good luck with your girl.

 

Terry

 

Thank you for responding. I'm so very sorry for your loss of Cody. If you're willing, I'm interested in the following:

 

If I understand you correctly, Cody's throat paralysis level was near my Shasta's level upon Cody's diagnosis...

Even though he developed the chest mass later, did you notice a dramatic change in his breathing ability during that year?

(I have read that LP is sometimes caused by pre-exisiting cancer in older large breeds. Not a fun double whammy for these poor babies.)

Were you able to walk Cody much during that year or did he lay low relaxing at home?

I'm a bit nervous about walking Shasta too far from home (or car) in case she falls into a crisis mode. (She's almost as large/tall as my boy, she's almost 75 pounds -- so I can't carry her too far!) Thankfully, we've had a cool summer thus far.

 

Terry, thanks again for helping me/us learn about your experience with Cody.

 

Tracey

[Sirocco_Nikki]

My brittany who was in extremely good condition, besides her lp, had surgery for it at age 12. She had nothing but problems afterwards. Before surgery, she would pant a lot when stressed. After surgery, she turned blue and did straight neck wheezing when stressed. I know some dogs do great, but she was never as good after surgery as before. It was almost a relief when she finally passed.

 

Good luck. And lots of scritches to your puppy.

[HopeForHounds]

My bridge angel Foxy was diagnosed with LP 2 years before she left us. Interestingly enough she had had a hemangiopericytoma removed 2 years prior to that.

 

We opted not to do the surgery, mostly because we didn't find a vet who had a lot of experience doing the surgery. We did manage to keep her comfortable and crisis free for those 2 years with only one hospitalization. Keeping her cool was crucial, as was keeping her calm with no trips outside the house as that would get her too excited and made her breathing worse. We inititally treated with benedryl, but had pred on hand to give if the benedryl didn't work.

 

We learned the hard way not to take her ANYWHERE 6 months later as I had taken her to a friends where we were having a blood donor clinic. The vet techs who ran it were going to do a blood panel on her. I figured we would be okay as medical help was there, and she was familiar with the house and people It turned out to be a really bad move. She got really happy excited, and wouldn't settle down. We gave her some pred which she promptly vomitted. Then her breathing became really laboured. It took her home and when after 15 minutes she didn't improve we took her to an eVet and she was admitted in guarded condition. The next day, our vet sent her home and gave us something to calm her should we ever need it. We never took her anywhere but the vets from then on. She actually did pretty well with her own treatment plan for another year. In the end Foxy left us when her body just gave up at age 13 3/4. Ironically her breathing was fine at the end.

[Guest ThunderPaws]

I also lost a dog to hemangio. It was of the spleen. She was gone within hours of finding out. Not a hint something was wrong until then.

I lost one like that.... no hint of illness, then suddenly collapsed, spleen ruptured, cancer everywhere... gone... Thank goodness I was there to say good-bye.

 

My Waldo is almost 10 and has a hard time breathing in this heat and humidity. I am looking forward to more information on LP surgery and possible risks.

[3greytjoys]

My Onyx was 11 when she had the tieback surgery. She will celebrate her 15th birthday next month.

 

She does pant a lot but it doesn't seem to interfer with her breathing. She goes out for walks...same distance we've always done. She does get more tired now but heck, she is going to be 15.

 

We've had to watch what she eats to prevent aspirate pneumonia, but you need to worry about that without surgery too.

 

I opted for the surgery because my sister's lab also had LP and towards the end it was awful. So many times she sounded like she was on death's door, struggling to breathe. I did not want to go thru that.

 

I also lost a dog to hemangio. It was of the spleen. She was gone within hours of finding out. Not a hint something was wrong until then.

 

 

Good luck in your decision.

 

Woohoo... Yay Onyx!!! Happy upcoming 15th birthday!!!

 

If you're willing to answer any more questions....

Did she have single or double tie-back surgery?

Do you happen to know how much "cutting" was done during her surgery, or was it more like just "sewing" flap/s back?

Did you need to elevate her food and water bowls (more than usual)? If so, what height works best for Onyx?

Did she vomit a lot more after surgery? If so, how long did it last? Was she able to keep food and water in her stomach better thereafter?

You mentioned watching what she eats... Is she on a special diet, or do you do something special to her food (eg: soaking regular kibble in water until completely saturated)?

Any aspirate pneumonia scares for Onyx, or has she done well from surgery forward?

 

I'm so sorry to read about your dog lost to Hemangiosarcoma. I've been trying to learn symptoms for which to watch. From your dog's case it seems like either your dog was extremely stoic (like many), or hopefully it isn't a tremendously painful cancer as it grows. Another friend lost her (non-GH) large dog very quickly to hemangiosarcoma of the spleen.

 

Thank you again for sharing your valuable experience.

 

Tracey

[3greytjoys]

My brittany who was in extremely good condition, besides her lp, had surgery for it at age 12. She had nothing but problems afterwards. Before surgery, she would pant a lot when stressed. After surgery, she turned blue and did straight neck wheezing when stressed. I know some dogs do great, but she was never as good after surgery as before. It was almost a relief when she finally passed.

 

Good luck. And lots of scritches to your puppy.

 

Oh no, that sounds like torture!! That post surgery situation is one of my concerns, along with the serious risks of surgery, especially with my girl being an excessive bleeder. Do you recall if your Brittany had single or double flap tieback surgery?

[3greytjoys]

My bridge angel Foxy was diagnosed with LP 2 years before she left us. Interestingly enough she had had a hemangiopericytoma removed 2 years prior to that.

 

We opted not to do the surgery, mostly because we didn't find a vet who had a lot of experience doing the surgery. We did manage to keep her comfortable and crisis free for those 2 years with only one hospitalization. Keeping her cool was crucial, as was keeping her calm with no trips outside the house as that would get her too excited and made her breathing worse. We inititally treated with benedryl, but had pred on hand to give if the benedryl didn't work.

 

We learned the hard way not to take her ANYWHERE 6 months later as I had taken her to a friends where we were having a blood donor clinic. The vet techs who ran it were going to do a blood panel on her. I figured we would be okay as medical help was there, and she was familiar with the house and people It turned out to be a really bad move. She got really happy excited, and wouldn't settle down. We gave her some pred which she promptly vomitted. Then her breathing became really laboured. It took her home and when after 15 minutes she didn't improve we took her to an eVet and she was admitted in guarded condition. The next day, our vet sent her home and gave us something to calm her should we ever need it. We never took her anywhere but the vets from then on. She actually did pretty well with her own treatment plan for another year. In the end Foxy left us when her body just gave up at age 13 3/4. Ironically her breathing was fine at the end.

 

I'm glad you shared this information... We typically travel a good bit (within state) with our hounds. Looks like we'll be homebound as long as is needed to keep our precious and beloved queen momma calm and cool. It's tough (and sad) trying to sneak out of the house for longer walks/outings with the other pups. Shasta doesn't understand why she's suddenly not included in our family pack.

 

Foxy was a beautiful girl. Looks like she had a long racing career, too. I'm glad she was able to be with you until almost 14.

[MP_the4pack]

Tracy, to answer your questions:

 

They did the single left side tieback. Apparently there is a difference if you tie back the left or right side. They went in thru the side of the neck to do it. The incision was 2-3 inches long. I took her home that day.

 

No vomiting. The surgeon put her on pepcid daily to help prevent vomiting. That's a big no no. Major cause of aspirate pneumonia. But before you nix the surgery because of that, LP with no tieback is just as prone to the aspirate pneumonia as with the tieback.

 

The only food restriction is no hard crunchies (milkbone dog biscuits, dry kibble...must be soaked). That's it. Due to her age and other things popping up, I have recently switch to all canned food. But she'd been on soaked kibble for years after the tieback.

 

If she has surgery in the future, the doctors would need to know she has the tie back. The intubation tube needs to stay in as long as possible, til the very last minute. But again, it's more because of the paralysis, not tieback.

 

Onyx did not vomit much during her life before or after the surgery. If your dog is prone to vomiting, the doctor may decide not to do it. Or maybe be on stronger meds than just pepcid.

 

 

The elevated bowls were fine as is. But now, because she is the Queen Mum, she gets fed in bed, while lying down. "Can I get you anything else your Royal Highny?"

 

Every once in a while she seems to have a different cough (they do cough more since the larynx no longer closes) and I'll take her to the vets. She just gets a round of antibiotics to be safe. Just a few months ago, she had a 'spit up' (like what human babies do)...I still took her to the vets for a round of antibiotics. But no real scare. For treats I give her Nutter Butter sandwich cookies that I wet first. Makes it nice and soft.

 

She has had a few surgeries since the tieback and other than keeping the intubation tube in a tad longer, there have been no problems.

 

Let me know if there are any more questions.

 

I do know some dogs don't do well with the tieback. I don't know any personally so I can't give an opinion other than what I see with Onyx.

 

It's still a rough decision. Good luck in whatever path you choose.

[Lilysmom]

Was the hemangiosarcoma a cutaneous (surface) mass? Those don't often metastasize; surgical removal is usually curative. I can't help with LP but I know some others here can. Hugs and best luck to you and your girl.

 

 

No. Unfortunately, the (blood vessel) cancer appeared to extend beyond the surgical margin. I was told masses will continue to recur and is likely already elsewhere in her body.

 

We are still hopeful that she'll be with us a lot longer... At this point, the LP symptoms are the most restrictive to her quality of life. I'm trying to keep her calm, cool, restricting her exercise, and watching her like a hawk when she's eating or drinking (she coughs and vomits). Vet said to keep her near our local ER hospital in the event she goes into breathing/suffocating crisis and needs their oxygen tank(!).

 

Thank you for your reply. She's the best girl on the planet (besides everyone else's hounds on this list!).

 

 

 

I can't help with the LP but my 10 yr old boy Marx was just diagnosed with Subcutaneous Hemangiomsarcoma in May. We had a mass removed but not clean margins. Chest xrays were clear. After much talking we have decided not to pursue another surger or chemo. He did have an ultrasound that showed no invovlement to his liver or spleen. I know after reading up on it it will spread to liver/spleen or heart. As far as how much time, well that's anyones guess. As of now he is acting completely normal but more masses have shown up, hence the decision to not pursue treatment given his age. It is very scary and i am constantly watching him for any signs of anything abnormal but trying to relax enough to not stress him out. I know that once it spreads to the organs that time will be limited.

 

You can contact Dr. Couto at Ohio State University and he can answer any questions/concerns you have.

 

Stay strong, I'll be praying for you and your precious pup

[3DogNite]

My Darbee-Doo had the LP tie-back surgery at the age of 13 yrs.. she lived until the ripe old age of 15 and died of seizures due to old age.

she never wore a martingale again,, only light tag collars and Bling necklaces fit for a girlie-girl

I found a wonderful fun bright harness to color coordinate with whatever bling "she" chose.

 

she had the left side tied back and the "voice box" taken out too. incision in front of her neck (under her chin)

she did very well after surgery and never looked back

elevated food and water stations

soaked the kibble for her food

no crunchie/crumbley kind of treats of food.

 

she did have a couple of vomiting issues, and thankfully no problems with pneumonia.

I would not hesitate to do the LP tie back with another dog.

 

 

My first greyhound died of Hemangio-sarcoma, that spread to her organs. She went very quickly,, within a coupe weeks of diagnosis.

 

Good luck with your girl!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

My recent adoption Jesse (adopted in March) came to me and will be 8 in Nov. We do not know her background other than she raced at Geneva Lakes and retired the day they closed. She was found wandering in Michigan and picked up by animal control. I notice that she does regurgitate water sometimes after she drinks, and does cough some when eating. There is a difference between regurgitation and vomiting. What everyone is saying here is that the hounds are vomiting. From what I have read and have discussed with a few vets is that vomiting is basically a forced throwing up where the stomach muscles violently retract causing expulsion of contents, whereas regurgitation does not. There is no retching, no sound, just "plop" out comes whatever. My girl doesn't have any breathing issues, runs around the yard with my other two, so none of those issues. Would any of you say your hounds regurgitate, or is it really vomiting? I have voiced my specific concerns to our grey-savvy vet and she doesn't seem too concerned since the regurgitation is not a daily occurrence.

 

Chad

[Guest KennelMom]

Wow, what a predicament. We had a grey with LP and we opted for medical management. Was pretty successful aside from a very scary incident near the end of his life. He wasn't a great candidate for tie-back surgery, but better than it sounds like your girl is. I would be hard pressed NOT to do the surgery in the future...a dog would have to be a seriously BAD risk for surgery, not just "not a great candidate." Grandpa lived for a few years with good quality of life after his diagnosis. He was always a a VERY relaxed and calm dog, which really helped. Dogs who tend to be higher strung/stressed out have a greater chance of complications from the LP. Our vet has a golden retriever who's lived for many, many years with just the medical management of LP.

 

No experience with hemangio, though from what I understand it's pretty bad news. Considering she's a bleeder as well, we would probably opt to keep her comfy and happy as long as possible without surgery. I'd rather say goodbye on our terms than on the operating table.

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Regarding the bleeding issue: your Vet should look into Amicar. OSU uses for surgery on greyhounds and we needed to use it on one of my greys after amputation.

[Guest Annie]

I have sent you a PM with my email address. I know someone who is successfully treating his 13 1/2 year old female's hemangiosarcoma with medical leeches. I'd be happy to get you in touch with him so he can share his experiences with you.

All the best to you both.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Annie

[Guest BoandLazMom]

Hi,

 

My (almost) 9 year old broodie has been a fairly loud panter since her adoption 2 years ago. Vet told me not to worry about it 2 years ago.

My girl has been having increasing labored breathing over the past couple of months.

 

Vet's recent scoping diagnosis: Laryngeal Paralysis.

One side is completely paralyzed, and the other is almost completely paralyzed, just "barely moves."

Same surgical visit: Small mass removed (within 1-2 weeks of surfacing on lower leg). Diagnosis: Cancer; Hemangiosarcoma.

Since it is an aggressive, blood driven cancer, it's likely festering elsewhere; anywhere blood vessels extend throughout the body. We know it frequently targets heart and spleen.

 

Our surgery challenge: My girl is an "excessive bleeder." Fortunately, the vet was finally able to stop her bleeding enough to let her come home. She began internal bleeding 30 hours after surgery while at home. (This was at night, after vets and compounding pharmacies were closed!). Unfortunately, I was unable to obtain Aminocaproic Acid (to help prevent Greyhound bleedout) during this time. Thankfully, my girl improved over the next 12-24 hours. This time, we were very lucky.

 

I am interested in hearing from anyone who has personal experience with Laryngeal Paralysis and/or Hemangiosarcoma in Greyhounds. My poor girl already has 3 potentially fatal strikes against her, even if we consider the extremely risky LP surgery! I'm especially curious about life expectancy re: this level of Laryngeal Paralysis, without surgery. I know every case is different, but hoping someone can share their story.

 

Thank you...

[Guest BoandLazMom]

A friend saw you post and forwarded it me. I can only comment on the LP surgery. We adopted a 12 year old and she had breathing issues which turned out to be LP. We elected the surgery. She was about 12 1/2 at the time and healthy. We are close to the one year anniversary of her srgury and she is doing very well. The heat and humidity bother her but she has vastly improved. There are many days she thinks she 2 and not 13 1/2. I don't think she'd be well us today we if not made the decision of surgery.

 

I wish the best for you and your girl.

[Sirocco_Nikki]

My brittany who was in extremely good condition, besides her lp, had surgery for it at age 12. She had nothing but problems afterwords. Before surgery, she would pant a lot when stressed. After surgery, she turned blue and did straight neck wheezing when stressed. I know some dogs do great, but she was never as good after surgery as before. It was almost a relief when she finally passed.

 

Good luck. And lots of scritches to your puppy.

 

Oh no, that sounds like torture!! That post surgery situation is one of my concerns, along with the serious risks of surgery, especially with my girl being an excessive bleeder. Do you recall if your Brittany had single or double flap tieback surgery?

 

Polly had surgery on both sides. I am not trying to dissuade you from the surgery. It's just that 2 vets led me to believe that the surgery was not traumatic and that Polly would have immediate relief. Please be aware, as I wasn't, that the outcome for LP surgery is not always good. Some dogs, even healthy ones like Polly, have major complications from the surgery.