"steak Bones"?

[Guest SusanP]

Our neighbors just brought over a bag of (cooked I think) "steak bones" for the dogs. DH politely declined, saying he didn't think they are good for them, but did we make a mistake? We're vegetarians, and we've never offered the dogs bones, but should we have accepted?

[Guest GreyFan09]

Better not to give dogs any type of cooked bones as they can crack and splinter. I've read that most raw bones are okay, even though I can't give them to our dog as any type of raw food gives him really bad "D".

[Guest scfilby]

You made the right choice. Cooked bones can be dangerous. Very nice of your neighbors though..

[Guest Vers]

As said above, no cooked bones of any type, including smoked bones from the grill, pet store or supermarket. Raw bones, be very selective; weightbearing bones are hard and can splinter or cause a blockage. There's a lot of good info on this forum on feeding raw and getting the benefits of raw bones with meat.

[Guest Ola]

No cooked bones as said above. Some people do feed it, or their parents/grandparents did and no one had any issues supposedly. But I definitely wouldn't chance it!

[Guest ChasesMum]

you made the right call in my books!

[RobinM]

Thumbs up to you. Good choice. Get them some chicken, turkey or duck necks. Freeze and give to them raw. I am a vegetarian too. After a while, you won't even notice!

[Guest BooBooMama]

We all agree- no cooked bones. My neighbor just spent $2,500.00 at the veterinary dentist's getting his husky's canine capped. It cracked after a well-meaning family member gave her a steak bone (cooked.) Poor dog was in a lot of pain so he opted to spend the money to get it fixed rather than pulled.

[Guest RWM]

There has been a lot of discussion about the risks of feeding raw, hard, weight-bearing bones. The problems cited are tooth fractures and wearing down of teeth.

 

However, has anyone had any personal experience with this, other than what they've heard.

 

Some pretty reputable places I know of that sell bones for dogs carry raw, hard, weight-bearing bones and my conversations with them suggest that the potential problem is over-blown.

 

I give my two greys some of these hard bones, but not a lot and only under supervision. I don't let them work on them too long and chuck them once they get the sinew off and get out some of the marrow. They love them and I don't want to deprive them unless the potential problems are very real!

 

Comments?

Edited August 13, 2010 by RWM

[Guest greyhound9797]

There has been a lot of discussion about the risks of feeding raw, hard, weight-bearing bones. The problems cited are tooth fractures and wearing down of teeth. However, has anyone had any personal experience with this, other than what they've heard.

 

Some pretty reputable places I know of that sell bones for dogs carry raw, hard, weight-bearing bones and my conversations with them suggest that the potential problem is over-blown.

 

I give my two greys some of these hard bones, but not a lot and only under supervision. I don't let them work on them too long and chuck them once they get the sinew off and get out some of the marrow. They love them and I don't want to deprive them unless the potential problems are very real! Comments?

 

When I first adopted Piper I gave her marrow bones but then stopped about 2 years later when I heard they were too dense for teeth. In the past 4 years she's had 12 teeth pulled. Is it related to the bones? Perhaps, but greys are known to have poor teeth and gums to begin with, so there is a chance that it's simply genetics. It's truly difficult to say whether tooth fractures are related to gnawing on hard bones or simply just bad teeth but I do believe that they are too hard compared to other bones. I choose not to risk it and buy edible things for her to gnaw on.

 

I buy my non-raw fed cat food from a reputable boutique store and they sell Nature's Variety and other raw products that are ground and contain vegetables. I feed prey model - no fruits or veggies and nothing ground - so I don't "agree" with the sale of pre-mixed raw food but I still feel the store is reputable. I also buy my personal meat and produce at a large grocery store that carries IAMS which I consider to be junk. It doesn't make the store any less reputable, it simply means that they cater to peoples' wants and needs. So the places you know that carry bones for dogs aren't necessarily DISreputable, they just choose to cater to the masses.

 

Personally, when I look back at when I bought bones I have to ask myself "why", when there are other edible, digestible and more entertaining things to gnaw on. Sure, they cost more money (bully sticks, moo chews, antlers, etc) but I believe they provide better dental benefit and are more enjoyable.

 

Sandra in FL

[Guest RWM]

Sandra, the butcher where I get my ground meat, pork shoulders, and duck necks caters only to dogs. He stocks the hard bones and sells a lot of them, to some very discerning customers who both breed and show their dogs. I don't think he's impressed with the argument that hard bones are a problem and he has a lot of experience with that food item.

 

While it is true that I like the natural bully sticks available from places like Hare Today, which my hounds also love, there is no denying they like their hard bones and will work on them for hours if a let them.

 

I understand the argument and am sensitive to it ... I'm just not willing to eliminate what I think is a good treat for the wrong reasons. I watch my girls very closely when I give them hard bones and don't let them get too deep into them.

[Guest mattbta]

I learned the hard way on the cooked bones. Explosive D and a bit of bone lodged in my iggy's intestine. Everyone is ok now though.

[Guest Ola]

I personally have not had any cracked bones as I stopped feeding them when a friend of mine had a slab fracture in her dog. However what I have seen on my own dog is noticeable wear on teeth, especially on the canines. That to me is an obvious sign that they're really dense bones.

 

And as Sandra said, why take the risk when there are plenty of other bones available. I think one of the goals of a good raw diet should be to feed meals that are engaging enough that no "recreational" chew material is needed. I mean feeding ground or easily gulped-swallowed food and then giving marrow bones for chewing seems a bit counter-intuitive in that respect.

[Guest RWM]

I personally have not had any cracked bones as I stopped feeding them when a friend of mine had a slab fracture in her dog. However what I have seen on my own dog is noticeable wear on teeth, especially on the canines. That to me is an obvious sign that they're really dense bones.

 

And as Sandra said, why take the risk when there are plenty of other bones available. I think one of the goals of a good raw diet should be to feed meals that are engaging enough that no "recreational" chew material is needed. I mean feeding ground or easily gulped-swallowed food and then giving marrow bones for chewing seems a bit counter-intuitive in that respect.

 

Well, we still have not heard from anyone who has had personal experience with slab fractures. Could it be that slab fractures have occurred from eating hard bones where a hound's teeth are already fragile and in bad shape?

 

As far as feeding ground raw meat, it's not a mainstay in my hounds' diet. I've actually cut down on it and have increased the amount of boned food I give them. However, the ground meat I give them has a lot of nutritional value, including about 20% ground RMB and some ground veggies (including carrot, parsley and garlic). It's not just ground raw meat. So, it's easier for me to justify giving it to them.

 

This having been said, I do think your arguments make a lot of sense.

[Batmom]

Hard bones: Really depends on the dog. Some will just gnaw to get any good stuff off, some will try to eat it. It's the trying to eat it that's a problem.

[Guest RWM]

Hard bones: Really depends on the dog. Some will just gnaw to get any good stuff off, some will try to eat it. It's the trying to eat it that's a problem.

 

Agreed. That's why I watch my two. After they've gotten the sinew off, and some of the marrow out, I chuck the bones.

[Guest Swifthounds]

There has been a lot of discussion about the risks of feeding raw, hard, weight-bearing bones. The problems cited are tooth fractures and wearing down of teeth.

 

However, has anyone had any personal experience with this, other than what they've heard.

 

Yes. It's not pretty. Luckily I've never had the dreaded slab fractures.

 

Some pretty reputable places I know of that sell bones for dogs carry raw, hard, weight-bearing bones and my conversations with them suggest that the potential problem is over-blown.

 

C'mon, Richard. This one is obvious. Why would anyone who sells something potentially dangerous tell you its potentially dangerous? They want to sell you something. Those wReck bones are pretty much useless in the U.S. unless it's by one of the few companies that still make bone black or one of the shrinking number of folks who use them for soup. At the same time they're heavy and you have to haul them somewhere. Dog people don't know the difference and/or don't care as long as fluffy doesn't eat grandma's rocking chair, so it works out beautifully for the slaughterhouses. The sale of them as chew treats more than covers the cost of hauling and disposal.

 

If you feed raw, even the toughest chewers get sufficient jaw exercise that recreational chewing is not necessary.

[Guest KennelMom]

I personally have not had any cracked bones as I stopped feeding them when a friend of mine had a slab fracture in her dog. However what I have seen on my own dog is noticeable wear on teeth, especially on the canines. That to me is an obvious sign that they're really dense bones.

 

And as Sandra said, why take the risk when there are plenty of other bones available. I think one of the goals of a good raw diet should be to feed meals that are engaging enough that no "recreational" chew material is needed. I mean feeding ground or easily gulped-swallowed food and then giving marrow bones for chewing seems a bit counter-intuitive in that respect.

 

Well, we still have not heard from anyone who has had personal experience with slab fractures. Could it be that slab fractures have occurred from eating hard bones where a hound's teeth are already fragile and in bad shape?

 

 

We give recreational bones to our dogs. Have for many years. We get big weight bearing bones and joints that still have lots of sinew and meat bits on the outside and are sliced so the dogs can access the marrow on the inside. Most dogs work to strip off all the fleshy material off the bones and then lick the marrow out - it's nature's kong MOST do not actually try to eat the bone itself.

 

Echo (like her dad) has really bad teeth. Always has. I think it's something genetic b/c her teeth are always just bad bad bad no matter what we feed her. The rest of the pack has pretty darn good teeth. At her last dental, the vet found a small slab fracture...no more weight bearing bones for her. The vet said it is most likely because her teeth are not very strong to begin with. Vets have never found any slab fractures in any of our other dogs.

[Guest RWM]

 

C'mon, Richard. This one is obvious. Why would anyone who sells something potentially dangerous tell you its potentially dangerous? They want to sell you something.

 

If you feed raw, even the toughest chewers get sufficient jaw exercise that recreational chewing is not necessary.

 

LOL, Jen, do I strike you as naive? This place only stocks stuff that sells, and is requested by lots of owners. The store would not stock the bones if they didn't sell. They can't keep them in stock. Most of the time I go there, they're out.

 

Heck, anything is "potentially dangerous." Dogs can choke on kibble.

 

Let's hear from someone who has had personal experience with a slab fracture and ask them whether their dog's teeth were in bad shape to begin with.

Edited August 14, 2010 by RWM

[Guest KennelMom]

Let's hear from someone who has had personal experience with a slab fracture and ask them whether their dog's teeth were in bad shape to begin with.

 

raises hand. in our personal experience, the dog's teeth are just poor to begin with. (see above post for detail)

[Guest RWM]

 

We give recreational bones to our dogs. Have for many years. We get big weight bearing bones and joints that still have lots of sinew and meat bits on the outside and are sliced so the dogs can access the marrow on the inside. Most dogs work to strip off all the fleshy material off the bones and then lick the marrow out - it's nature's kong MOST do not actually try to eat the bone itself.

 

Echo (like her dad) has really bad teeth. Always has. I think it's something genetic b/c her teeth are always just bad bad bad no matter what we feed her. The rest of the pack has pretty darn good teeth. At her last dental, the vet found a small slab fracture...no more weight bearing bones for her. The vet said it is most likely because her teeth are not very strong to begin with. Vets have never found any slab fractures in any of our other dogs.

 

That's a pretty good endorsement, KM! And you've had personal experience.

 

My Snowy will try to eat some of the bone after she has stripped it and licked out some of the marrow, so I have to watch her. Daisy, on the other hand, will not try to eat the bone, so I don't worry as much about her.

Edited August 14, 2010 by RWM

[Guest Swifthounds]

 

C'mon, Richard. This one is obvious. Why would anyone who sells something potentially dangerous tell you its potentially dangerous? They want to sell you something.

 

If you feed raw, even the toughest chewers get sufficient jaw exercise that recreational chewing is not necessary.

 

LOL, Jen, do I strike you as naive? This place only stocks stuff that sells, and is requested by lots of owners. The store would not stock the bones if they didn't sell. They can't keep them in stock. Most of the time I go there, they're out.

 

Heck, anything is "potentially dangerous." Dogs can choke on kibble.

 

Naive, no. Hearing what you want to hear sometimes? Yes.

 

Of course they can't keep them in stock. P.T. Barnum would be proud. The stuff sells because the average pet owner really doesn't know all that much about all that much regarding dogs. The general public tends to have dogs the way most of us have sofas; it's there, we take care of it, but we don't obsess about what's best for it. Look at how many of them never read a kibble label, vaccinate annually despite all evidence to the contrary, and take their dog to the vet for ailments and never see the connection between overall health of an animal and the necessary ailments that result.

 

Then again, it's quite the trick to feed a raw diet and still feel the need to feed wReck bones for chewing.

 

Let's hear from someone who has had personal experience with a slab fracture and ask them whether their dog's teeth were in bad shape to begin with.

 

The problem with that is that we equate "bad teeth" and "unclean teeth" and they are not the same. Your average vet doesn't know the difference either. That's why there are canine oral surgeons. They actually specialize in teeth and have actual training. Few people who wReck will have previously taken their dogs to someone who knows teeth - they end up there only after.

[Guest KennelMom]

The problem with that is that we equate "bad teeth" and "unclean teeth" and they are not the same. Your average vet doesn't know the difference either. That's why there are canine oral surgeons. They actually specialize in teeth and have actual training. Few people who wReck will have previously taken their dogs to someone who knows teeth - they end up there only after.

 

True that "unclean" and "bad" are different. I would not go to a vet that didn't know the difference. Our vets know teeth very well...there are specialists for just about everything in vet. medicine ...that doesn't mean a general practioner isn't well versed, educated or experienced in those areas.

 

Even feeding a raw diet we gave recreational bones. Not because there was a need, but because the dogs enjoyed them.

[Guest RWM]

 

C'mon, Richard. This one is obvious. Why would anyone who sells something potentially dangerous tell you its potentially dangerous? They want to sell you something.

 

If you feed raw, even the toughest chewers get sufficient jaw exercise that recreational chewing is not necessary.

 

LOL, Jen, do I strike you as naive? This place only stocks stuff that sells, and is requested by lots of owners. The store would not stock the bones if they didn't sell. They can't keep them in stock. Most of the time I go there, they're out.

 

Heck, anything is "potentially dangerous." Dogs can choke on kibble.

 

Naive, no. Hearing what you want to hear sometimes? Yes.

 

Of course they can't keep them in stock. P.T. Barnum would be proud. The stuff sells because the average pet owner really doesn't know all that much about all that much regarding dogs. The general public tends to have dogs the way most of us have sofas; it's there, we take care of it, but we don't obsess about what's best for it. Look at how many of them never read a kibble label, vaccinate annually despite all evidence to the contrary, and take their dog to the vet for ailments and never see the connection between overall health of an animal and the necessary ailments that result.

 

Then again, it's quite the trick to feed a raw diet and still feel the need to feed wReck bones for chewing.

 

Let's hear from someone who has had personal experience with a slab fracture and ask them whether their dog's teeth were in bad shape to begin with.

 

The problem with that is that we equate "bad teeth" and "unclean teeth" and they are not the same. Your average vet doesn't know the difference either. That's why there are canine oral surgeons. They actually specialize in teeth and have actual training. Few people who wReck will have previously taken their dogs to someone who knows teeth - they end up there only after.

 

LOL. I think we're all guilty of hearing what we want to hear! Maybe even you!

 

I can't, and won't, speak for anyone else, but I've broached the "raw hard support bone" issue with a lot of folks who know what they're doing, and I've gotten a variety of responses that run the gamut. I have personally adjusted the way I have fed these bones to my two hounds, watching them and exercising caution, but I do not feel the problem with raw hard bones is as bad as it has been made out.

 

Now, KennelMom is well respected on this site and has had personal experience with raw hard bones and slab fractures. Her point of view should carry weight in this debate. I defer to her wisdom!

Edited August 14, 2010 by RWM

[Guest Ola]

The stuff sells because the average pet owner really doesn't know all that much about all that much regarding dogs. The general public tends to have dogs the way most of us have sofas; it's there, we take care of it, but we don't obsess about what's best for it. Look at how many of them never read a kibble label, vaccinate annually despite all evidence to the contrary, and take their dog to the vet for ailments and never see the connection between overall health of an animal and the necessary ailments that result.

I completely agree - most pet owners (and vets for that matter) still are convinced that if you feed your dog raw chicken bones you'll perforate their stomach and kill them immediately.

 

As for the rest of the argument, meh, I've made up my mind. One of my dogs is a very intent chewer and she is one of those that tries to eat all bones. I'm not about to keep feeding her wreck bones just so that I can prove a point to someone. As long as I can keep sharing my point of view, everyone else is free to do the same and the reader can make their own decision.